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Crime Racism Bill Bennett Abort Black Babies

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#41 Hibblette

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 02:59 PM

Freakanomics does not specify that the crime rate dropped due to one race having abortions.  It just says the abortion rate.

The question to ask here is what is the ratio of black women that get abortions?  I know they do but...

He should never have said this.  This is pure stupidity that this spewed from his mouth.

Of course I remember reading the story that Jonathon Swift wrote about Irish babies and the famine of Ireland... :glare:
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#42 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:08 PM

emsparks, on Sep 30 2005, 02:15 PM, said:

What makes Mr. Bennent a racist is given the crime distribution across the ethnic groups, his often stated, view that poverty and crime, is a function of a personal lack of effort.

Actually, IMO, there is a connection between poverty and crime. People living in poverty, IMO, are more likely to committ crimes. Whether it's robbery, to get money. Or drugs to forget the type of life they have, ect.

As for poverty being a personal lack of effort....not sure about that one.


Quote

Do you really want to discuss racism in this country???

In a word: Yes. Without a doubt Yes. The only way to combat and defeat racism is to talk about it. Educate people about it.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#43 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:17 PM

QueenTiye, on Sep 30 2005, 02:41 PM, said:

and an internal comedic usage - it being widely understood that jokes made about a group by the member of that group is satire (Jews make similar jokes about themselves, and Jeff Foxworthy made a good run making jokes about rednecks that worked because he counted himself amongst them.)

Good point.


Quote

Notwithstanding - the reason white people "can't" get away with similar jokes is fairly simple - black people have been at the brunt of such "jokes" accompanied with waterhoses and the like at the hands of white people - there's a justifiable fear that the "innocent" joke of a white person isn't really all that innocent.

I can understand that. But it just proves the double standard. It also then makes the question of who is the racist? The white guy on stage making fun of blacks, or the black audience member?

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LoTS I appreciate the apology for the lumping together. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Quote

But I stand by what I just said above.  If you, as a white guy, started making jokes about being white, I'd probably laugh.  But I'd be very careful about what jokes to make about you being white, and I darned sure wouldn't call you an ethnic slur, no matter what white person I heard calling him or herself by the same slur.

I guess this is where we differ. If I'm watching a comdeian, I don't go looking for hidden racist messages. I'm looking for how funny he or she is. I've heard black comedians make fun of white people, and I laughed at some of those jokes. Because they were funny.

I've laughed at hispanic comedians that made fun of whites, because the jokes were funny.

I've YET to see a white comedian get up on stage and make fun of black people. I've seen black comedians make fun of black people. And hispanic comedians make fun of blacks and hispanics. But I've YET to see a white comedian make fun of blacks....perhaps for the very reasons you mentioned above...but then WHO is the racist?

Edited by LORD of the SWORD, 30 September 2005 - 03:26 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#44 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:18 PM

schoolpsycho, on Sep 30 2005, 01:32 PM, said:

Quote

My apologies then. To both you and QT. I lumped all black people together. My bad. I'll edit my original post. Again, I apologize.


Thank you, LoTS.

sp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You're welcome.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#45 QueenTiye

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:22 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Sep 30 2005, 04:17 PM, said:

I guess this is where we differ. If I'm watching a comdeian, I don't go looking for hidden racist messages. I'm looking for how funny he or she is. I've heard black comedians make fun of white people, and I laughed at some of those jokes. Because they were funny.

I've laughed at hispanic comedians that made fun of whites, because the jokes were funny.

I've YET to see a white comedian get up on stage and make fun of black people. I've seen black comedians make fun of black people. And hispanic comedians make fun of blacks and hispanics. But I've YET to see a white comedian make fun of blacks....perhaps for the very reasons you mentioned above...but then WHO is the racist?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You actually got the quotes backwards on the last quote - you put the endquote first and the open quote last.

Anyway - I recently saw a white comedian making fun of blacks.  He was pretty good.  And his material was well chosen - it was stuff he could say comfortably without being offensive.  And he didn't say the "n" word once.  I liked him.  Unfortunately - I have no clue what his name is, so I can't even recommend him. :(

QT

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#46 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:32 PM

QueenTiye, on Sep 30 2005, 03:22 PM, said:

You actually got the quotes backwards on the last quote - you put the endquote first and the open quote last.

I saw that, after you pointed it out. It took real skill to do that  ;) . How, or why, I did it...don't have a clue.

Quote

Anyway - I recently saw a white comedian making fun of blacks.  He was pretty good.  And his material was well chosen - it was stuff he could say comfortably without being offensive.  And he didn't say the "n" word once.  I liked him.  Unfortunately - I have no clue what his name is, so I can't even recommend him. :(

QT

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well when dealing with humor it also depends on the type of humor you like. I've seen comdeian Eddie Griffin, and for the most part I think he's fairly funny. I do get tired of his constant use of the "N" word, and all his cursing though. In fact if a comedian uses too many curse words it somewhat turns me off.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#47 Zwolf

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:48 PM

Comedy Central used to have a show called "Tough Crowd" that was a bunch of comedians sitting around talking about current events and making fun of each other.  It was sometimes funny, sometimes not, depending on who was on that night... but the white comedians and black comedians would make fun of each other a lot, and get pretty rough, and it was still funny.  Racial humor varies... if it's funny, it's funny.  If it's hateful, it's not gonna end up being very funny.  It all depends on the spirit in which it's offered.   Sarah Silverman is white (she's Jewish, so that may be somewhat of a caveat for how she gets away with it, but, eh) and  does a lot of race-humor, and I think she's funny as hell.  But, that could be 'cuz I have kind of a crush on her. :)  

Carlos Mencia's whole act is racial stuff, and I think he's funny, most of the time.  Dave Chapelle, too.  Neither of them are white, but even when they're making fun of white people, I crack up.  'Course, I'm half-Hungarian, so, another caveat.  (I only know one damn Hungarian joke*, so I think my people are discriminated against 'cuz we don't get made fun of enough...  :p )

Cheers,

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* for the curious, it's "How do you make a Hungarian omlette?  First, you steal two eggs..."  :)
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#48 Spectacles

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:51 PM

This is interesting, from the author of the Freakonomics book cited by Bennet before he stuck his foot in his mouth:

http://www.freakonom...eakonomics.html

Still, for me, the bottom line is that race was not part of the discussion of this hypothetical until Bennet injected it.  By doing so, he showed that he associates blacks with criminality. That's the problem. It's a very narrow view of blacks, to say the least. Now, maybe he doesn't know many black people. Whatever. For whatever reason, he's got some pretty negative stereotypes of black folks running around in his head. And apparently he still doesn't "get it" because he just released a statement blasting people who have criticized him and avowing that he opposes bigotry. A lot of people who oppose bigotry and stereotyping in principle actually engage in them in practice--not even meaning to, in fact trying hard NOT to. Those kinds of destructive mental shortcuts are habits that are harder to break than most people are willing to acknowledge.
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#49 Kosh

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 03:52 PM

schoolpsycho, on Sep 30 2005, 08:45 AM, said:

For the full transcript of the call,  click here.

This is according to Bill Bennett:

Quote

"I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. "


Further...

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That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.


This is from a guy who wrote children's books preaching moral values. Y'know, it's good he covered himself with what I quoted in red, otherwise I'd say...

BILL BENNENT IS A RACIST SCUM SUCKING PIG, WHO WOULDN'T MIND BLACK BABIES BEING ABORTED.


Oh, maybe he WAS speaking HYPOTHETICALLY. And of course, his ass is saved by the First Amemdment. But his statement wreaks of racial genocide. And if he SAID it, you knew he MEANT it, and if he MEANT it, part of me wonders, WOULD HE HELP DO IT?

But, as usual, I'll be overeacting with this, right?

*sigh*

This is why we will never feel safe here. People like Bennett. Who hide behind a microphone, free to spew their racist intolerant views, and then say, "Hey, I was only saying what I thought.", because he can.

You know, it's ironic. There he was, selling books geared towards children. I wonder how many Black children read his books?

I know nothing will be done. He'll just go on doing what he's doing.

But, it would be nice to think we're equal. Nice to feel we belong. Nice to know we aren't second class.

It would be.

But everytime, people like Bennett make me see we'll never get to that point.

sp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>




I was watching Imus this morning. They started talking about it, and read a comment he had made later, saying the quote was taken out of context. They made fun of that for a while, then they play a recording of the of the comments. They noted that there was no way to take that out of context, and then made fun of him for another half hour.
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#50 Corwin

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 04:02 PM

Spectacles, on Sep 30 2005, 03:51 PM, said:

This is interesting, from the author of the Freakonomics book cited by Bennet before he stuck his foot in his mouth:

http://www.freakonom...eakonomics.html


Hey, He said the same thing I did!!!!    :alien:


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#51 scherzo

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 04:14 PM

Bennett was clumsily attempting to turn a liberal contention about abortion on it's head.  Extending an opposing argument to an absurd extreme, to illustrate it's potential harm. He couldn't resist using "race" to  emphasize his point, but apparently forgot how determined the left is to expose conservatives(and probably...the very concept of conservatism itself) as inherently bigoted. His lack of skill has given them an opening. Swing and a miss Bill. I coulda told ya your disclaimer at the end would be blown off automatically.

Btw Blacks aren't being done any favors by the tag team of chronically angry activists, and "look how racist everyone but me is..." lily-white liberals.  Expending great amounts of energy beating the "victim" drum, does little to address very serious problems with Black criminality. The last thing Blacks should be concerned with is how the prison stretches of the scum making their lives a living hell, compare with their Caucasian counterparts. Even worse is pretending there isn't a culture of aggression and underachievement prevalent in a large percentage of the community. I've seen it up close for years, and the pathetic excuses and blame shifting don't seem to be helping. I'm not the only one who noticed, as evidenced by Bill Cosby's recent experiment with extreme candor. So I doubt I'm the only one opting to hold on to their rat's ass about Bill Bennet's "shocking" remarks.

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#52 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 04:56 PM

Zwolf666, on Sep 30 2005, 03:48 PM, said:

Carlos Mencia's whole act is racial stuff, and I think he's funny, most of the time.  Dave Chapelle, too.  Neither of them are white, but even when they're making fun of white people, I crack up.  'Course, I'm half-Hungarian, so, another caveat.  (I only know one damn Hungarian joke*, so I think my people are discriminated against 'cuz we don't get made fun of enough...  :p )

Cheers,

Zwolf


<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Haven't seen Chapelle...But I have seen Mencia...Mencia is a riot. Even when he makes fun of whites....LMAO.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#53 Delvo

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 05:21 PM

Spectacles, on Sep 30 2005, 03:51 PM, said:

Still, for me, the bottom line is that race was not part of the discussion of this hypothetical until Bennet injected it.  By doing so, he showed that he associates blacks with criminality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, he showed that if you make simple connections from statistics, you get bad results. Given one such simple connection (abortion and reduced crime) he used another (the higher criminal behavior rate among black people than other races) to show how bad it can be when simplistic statistics are overvalued.

Spectacles, on Sep 30 2005, 03:51 PM, said:

For whatever reason, he's got some pretty negative stereotypes of black folks running around in his head... A lot of people who oppose bigotry and stereotyping in principle actually engage in them in practice--not even meaning to, in fact trying hard NOT to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The flaw in your logic is the assertion that in order to say that black people are statistically more likely to commit crimes than other races, one must be bigotted and have negative stereotypes running around in one's head. But since it's factually true, there is another possible cause for someone to think that: simple awareness of and willingness to acknowledge the facts, whether they're pleasant facts or not.

The author of the book Bennet was reacting to is a statistician, and he admits in your link that this is the way it is, because he knows the numbers and he's got not other honest choices. He also explains that the crime is not caused by the race, but that it's caused by other factors that just apply more often to the circumstances that black people live in. If admitting those facts makes one Bennet a racist, it makes the book's author racist... but in reality it does neither. Admitting the facts doesn't make one a racist; how one deals with them does. And in Bennet's case, he argued AGAINST using simplistic statistical facts against black people because that would be "morally reprehensible". And for that, he's called a racist. It's like advocating eating steak and being called a vegan and an enemy of the beef industry.

#54 emsparks

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 05:25 PM

scherzo, on Sep 30 2005, 05:14 PM, said:

Bennett was clumsily attempting to turn a liberal contention about abortion on it's head.  Extending an opposing argument to an absurd extreme, to illustrate it's potential harm. He couldn't resist using "race" to  emphasize his point, but apparently forgot how determined the left is to expose conservatives(and probably...the very concept of conservatism itself) as inherently bigoted. His lack of skill has given them an opening. Swing and a miss Bill. I coulda told ya your disclaimer at the end would be blown off automatically.

Btw Blacks aren't being done any favors by the tag team of chronically angry activists, and "look how racist everyone but me is..." lily-white liberals.  Expending great amounts of energy beating the "victim" drum, does little to address very serious problems with Black criminality. The last thing Blacks should be concerned with is how the prison stretches of the scum making their lives a living hell, compare with their Caucasian counterparts. Even worse is pretending there isn't a culture of aggression and underachievement prevalent in a large percentage of the community. I've seen it up close for years, and the pathetic excuses and blame shifting don't seem to be helping. I'm not the only one who noticed, as evidenced by Bill Cosby's recent experiment with extreme candor. So I doubt I'm the only one opting to hold on to their rat's ass about Bill Bennet's "shocking" remarks.

-scherzo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Dear scherzo;

ďEven worse is pretending there isn't a culture of aggression and underachievement prevalent in a large percentage of the community.Ē

I must tell you in all candor that this is the singularly most racist comment I have ever seen posted on the three bulletin boards that have made of the history of the online community, and I take extreme offence.

When it comes to what you claimed to have seen, you like Mr. Cosby, see only what your eugenics derived education has conditioned you to see.

Edited by emsparks, 30 September 2005 - 05:39 PM.

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#55 scherzo

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:03 PM

Quote

I must tell you in all candor that this is the singularly most racist comment I have ever seen posted on the three bulletin boards that have made of the history of the online community, and I take extreme offence.
Uh...right.  :wacko:  As a rule, I don't comment on the sentence structure that appears on an online message forum,(I'm a typo and run-on machine personally) but if I were poised to critique the quality of another's "education", I think I'd be more careful. And Sparks, I read the original post before you "fixed" it, and it was only marginally more silly than your final draft. You take that offense of yours somewhere nice tonight ok.    

-scherzo
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#56 Natolii

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:12 PM

scherzo, on Sep 30 2005, 07:03 PM, said:

Quote

I must tell you in all candor that this is the singularly most racist comment I have ever seen posted on the three bulletin boards that have made of the history of the online community, and I take extreme offence.
Uh...right.  :wacko:  As a rule, I don't comment on the sentence structure that appears on an online message forum,(I'm a typo and run-on machine personally) but if I were poised to critique the quality of another's "education", I think I'd be more careful. And Sparks, I read the original post before you "fixed" it, and it was only marginally more silly than your final draft. You take that offense of yours somewhere nice tonight ok.    

-scherzo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Scherzo,

I however take great offense to an attack on a member of the community that is KNOWN to have a disability. What you are describing is one of the symptoms, TYVM. I do suggest an apology.

Basically put, I don't care how he (Bennet) claims to have meant it, the fact is that comment is as racist as one can get.
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#57 scherzo

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:25 PM

Quote

I however take great offense to an attack on a member of the community that is KNOWN to have a disability. What you are describing is one of the symptoms, TYVM. I do suggest an apology.
Suggestion noted. If you're really concerned about possible attacks on a disabled member of the community, you'll convince him to avoid pompously dismissing my ability to observe the world around me. Some folks might take offense to this type of thing too you know. His disability certain didn't prevent him from affecting a nicely superior tone, so don't get your feathers ruffled when the hot air balloon is punctured.

-scherzo
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#58 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:47 PM

Natolii, on Sep 30 2005, 06:12 PM, said:

Basically put, I don't care how he (Bennet) claims to have meant it, the fact is that comment is as racist as one can get.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why? Because he used the word "Black"?

Man I can't stand this PC sh*t!

It's bad enough certain people and groups are calling for his show to be pulled off the air, in effect violating his right to free speech...But, since he apparently used the "B" word...

OK, from now on the color "Black" is banned from everyone's usage, as it may offend some. In addition, to be fair, we'll have to do away with the words: "White" "Red" "Yellow" and whatever else might offend people.  :sarcasm:

Man the person I quoted in my sig sure hit the nail on the head: ALL IT TAKES IS FOR ONE PERSON TO BE OFFENDED
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#59 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:48 PM

What I'm wondering is this: if instead of saying black babies, if he had said white babies would there even be a story? I seriously doubt it.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#60 emsparks

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:59 PM

scherzo, on Sep 30 2005, 07:25 PM, said:

Quote

I however take great offense to an attack on a member of the community that is KNOWN to have a disability. What you are describing is one of the symptoms, TYVM. I do suggest an apology.
Suggestion noted. If you're really concerned about possible attacks on a disabled member of the community, you'll convince him to avoid pompously dismissing my ability to observe the world around me. Some folks might take offense to this type of thing too you know. His disability certain didn't prevent him from affecting a nicely superior tone, so don't get your feathers ruffled when the hot air balloon is punctured.

-scherzo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You canít deal with the subject so you attack the sentence structure. OK so be it, I ask no quarter.

Iím going to make this short and simple. With a basic understanding of eugenics (live stock breeding practiced on human beings), and developmental linguistics (how the brain learns the basic language constructs), you can design an education, and commercial system to advance one ethno-linguistic group to the exclusion of all other ethnic / racial groups. Thus insuring that the advantaged group succeeds in a monetary sense, and the other groups live in conditions of near to full-blown poverty. This is the how and why of the all-pervasive racism in this country. To put it very simply how you were taught to speak at a critical point in the development of your brain, to a near certainty determines if youíre going to be poor.

Then there is a little bit about the history of American slavery that nobody wants to talk about. That is the selective breeding programs of plantation owner groups. Where they tried to breed strength in to, and intelligence out of their slaves. The controlled breeding; along with a law forbidding the teaching of English and reading to a slave, on the pain of death, over some two hundred years of slavery in this country continues to take the intended toll, on the African American community.

[opening removed due to needlessly offensive nature of the remake.]if there is wide spread sloth, and aggression in the African American community, it is there because White Americans bred it in to the African American communityís slave forbearers.

[Sentence removed due to needlessly offensive nature of the remake.]

Edited to add quotation:

blackvoices.com said:

The historian John Hope Franklin said that slave breeding involved "the most fantastic manipulations of human development in the history of mankind."

Hereís a link that will tell more of the story

Edited by emsparks, 03 October 2005 - 06:53 AM.

Sparky::

Think!
Question Authority, Authoritatively.



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