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Riots In Toledo

Ohio Toledo Riots 2005

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#1 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 03:58 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2...arch/index.html

Quote

TOLEDO, Ohio (CNN) -- A neo-Nazi group's scheduled march against "black crime" in North Toledo, Ohio, sparked rioting Saturday afternoon.

Police and SWAT teams moved in, and several people were arrested. Toledo Mayor Jack Ford blamed "gang members" for the violence.

Ok...

But then...

Quote

Most of the violence happened when residents, who had pelted the Nazi marchers with bottles and rocks, took out their anger on police, said Brian Jagodzinski, chief news photographer for CNN affiliate WTVG.

Video showed crowds at around 2:25 p.m. using bats to bring down a wooden fence as looters broke into a small grocery store.

"The crowd was very ... extremely agitated at the police ... for doing this [making arrests in] the community when they should be doing this to the Nazis," Jagodzinski said.

Around 3 p.m., crowds of young men pelted the outside of a two-story residence with rocks, smashed out the windows with wooden crates, ran inside and threw out the furniture and lamps from the upper-level windows to the sidewalk below. No police were on the scene.

About 10 minutes later, the building's second story was in flames as a crowd of people watched.

Ok, so...Nazis march to protest black crime, then the black protesters decide to validate the march.

Smart thinking on someone's part.
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#2 Spectacles

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 06:15 PM

Quote

CU: Ok, so...Nazis march to protest black crime, then the black protesters decide to validate the march.

Smart thinking on someone's part.

Yep. That's pretty much what they mayor (who is black) said.

I am sick to death of these kids wearing their colors and thinking that they are making some kind of coherent statement by being thugs. The early 90's were bad, and then things simmered down. But in recent years we've had an epidemic of senseless murders of young black men by other young black men in Pittsburgh. Last week, the son of a former councilman was gunned down. He was 29.

I wish people would begin to speak out against the glorification of this crap in popular culture. We've got kids raising themselves who learn how to carry themselves not from reliable adults in their communities but from rappers, who make their fortunes selling the message that the only way a black kid can have any power is through violence. And some of the most successfull (and probably solidly middle-class to begin with) rappers move on to mansions and golf courses by peddling the message that somehow sociopathy is to be respected. I sound like an old fuddy duddy, but there you have it.

That message, combined with the drug trade, is simply a way of keeping the underclass underclass. And unfortunately, it does feed the racist stereotypes that yahoos like neo-nazis and William Bennet apply to all black people. (Yes, I know what Bennet said in context. He still made the leap into "blacks are criminals" territory all by himself--not in response to Freakonomics, as he pleads.

Anyway, kids who are doing this stuff need to hear the message that this kind of behavior is not noble, is not justifiable, is not respectable, is not a coherent response to real or imagined wrongs, and it's not what most black people do. Most black people struggle honorably to provide for themselves and their families just like most white people do.  So acting out like these kids are doing isn't cool; it's only trashy. And while some jackass may have made a fortune rapping about the joys of rioting for rioting's sake, it's still trashy behavior. And when they do it, they trash themselves and their families more effectively than any racist could. It just burns me the hell up. I get as furious with people who act like these kids as I do the neo-nazi, KKK, pointy-headed racists who think these kids somehow represent black people.

Edited by Spectacles, 15 October 2005 - 06:17 PM.

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#3 schoolpsycho

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 06:40 PM

Quote

I wish people would begin to speak out against the glorification of this crap in popular culture. We've got kids raising themselves who learn how to carry themselves not from reliable adults in their communities but from rappers, who make their fortunes selling the message that the only way a black kid can have any power is through violence. And some of the most successfull (and probably solidly middle-class to begin with) move on to mansions and golf courses by peddling the message that somehow sociopathy is to be respected. I sound like an old fuddy duddy, but there you have it.

But, a lot of the rappers grew up with gangs. That's part of the problem. They never really leave.

Still, amen. The lessons of rappers getting shot and killed for nothing still doesn't register, and they go on and do the same thing. They make icons out of Notorious B.I.G. and Tupak, making money from their deaths, and yet they go on doing what eventually got them killed, embracing the gangs. And it looks like it's just repeating itself.

And the idiots who started this riot gave the people who wanted this rally exactly what they wanted.

sp

Edited by schoolpsycho, 15 October 2005 - 06:40 PM.

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#4 Delvo

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 08:03 PM

And yet, when somebody else admits that this is the case, it's "racism". :sarcasm:

#5 G1223

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 08:39 PM

BTW Tupak has a new album comming out. I think with a few live tracks from him and Johnny Cash.
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#6 Norville

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 02:24 AM

Spectacles said:

I wish people would begin to speak out against the glorification of this crap in popular culture.

I know there's an urban fiction author named Shannon Holmes who went through the street life, and then prison, and found it all to be hell, so his style is to lay it out as very bad news, not as glory; and that if he could get out of it, so can others. Unfortunately, I have no idea if his target audience reads him in order to get that message.
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#7 offworlder

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 02:43 AM

not surprised at all

not singling out Toledo for sure, just that in most USA cities, other nations are a different discussion, there is a certain element of 'young men' looking to take advantage of some event outdoors to go do some physicality to get some feeling of short-term power or entertainment or just let off steam ........... happened soooooo many times, will so many again ....... and then, not just to single out males ...... there are times teen girls go get physical in some fight for much the same reasons, or to impress someone

not surprised
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#8 Spectacles

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 06:05 AM

Delvo, on Oct 15 2005, 08:03 PM, said:

And yet, when somebody else admits that this is the case, it's "racism". :sarcasm:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Care to elaborate?
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#9 Delvo

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 11:36 AM

http://www.exisle.ne...showtopic=31996

#10 schoolpsycho

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 03:47 PM

Quote

And yet, when somebody else admits that this is the case, it's "racism".  :sarcasm:


Of course it is, Delvo.

And something else I believe I said while the flap over what another (imo) racist Rush Limbaugh said about Donovan McNabb:

Whenever you involve color in the conversation, be it White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Latino, Native American, etc., it automatically becomes racist. Whether you want it to be or not.

sp

Edited by schoolpsycho, 16 October 2005 - 04:06 PM.

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#11 Lin731

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 03:52 PM

Quote

And yet, when somebody else admits that this is the case, it's "racism".


Yep it IS racist when someone like Bennet implies that if you want to reduce crime, you abort all black babies...Oh but he was NOT suggesting such a thing, that would be AWFUL (nevermind that he thought it up and said it)  :whistle:  BTW...maybe the former Education Sec. should educate himself to that fact that the majority of crime in this country ISN'T commited by blacks. Granted the crime numbers are TOO high but given that I beleive 60 percent of crime in commited by whites or other ethnic groups, we'd certainly drop the crime rates even more by aborting white babies....
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#12 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 16 October 2005 - 04:19 PM

In follow up:

http://www.cnn.com/2...h.ap/index.html

Quote

Police began receiving word midweek that gangs were going to descend on a neighborhood where a riot erupted over a planned march by a white supremacist group, but the resulting disturbance was worse than expected, the police chief said Sunday.

Quote

"We knew during the preparation that it was going to be a tremendous challenge," Navarre said. "Anyone who would accuse us of being underprepared I would take exception with that."

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#13 Bad Wolf

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 07:26 AM

schoolpsycho, on Oct 15 2005, 04:40 PM, said:

Quote

I wish people would begin to speak out against the glorification of this crap in popular culture. We've got kids raising themselves who learn how to carry themselves not from reliable adults in their communities but from rappers, who make their fortunes selling the message that the only way a black kid can have any power is through violence. And some of the most successfull (and probably solidly middle-class to begin with) move on to mansions and golf courses by peddling the message that somehow sociopathy is to be respected. I sound like an old fuddy duddy, but there you have it.

But, a lot of the rappers grew up with gangs. That's part of the problem. They never really leave.

Still, amen. The lessons of rappers getting shot and killed for nothing still doesn't register, and they go on and do the same thing. They make icons out of Notorious B.I.G. and Tupak, making money from their deaths, and yet they go on doing what eventually got them killed, embracing the gangs. And it looks like it's just repeating itself.

And the idiots who started this riot gave the people who wanted this rally exactly what they wanted.

sp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



You know the really sad thing is that this phenomenom is the closest thing to a "grass roots" movement I've seen in this country in...who knows.   :eek4:
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#14 Zwolf

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 09:01 AM

Riots are bad things.

Busting the heads of Nazis, however, is a very good thing.  I don't mind violence against those scumbags at all.   So, at least some good came of it. :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#15 Grandtheftcow

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 09:57 AM

Is destroying your own neighborhood a fair tradeoff to be able to crack the skulls of a few inbreed hicks?

Nice to know your willing to throw away your values just for someone you donít like.

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#16 Zwolf

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 10:11 AM

Quote

Is destroying your own neighborhood a fair tradeoff to be able to crack the skulls of a few inbreed hicks?

***** Nope.  But, like I said, at least some good came out of the bad.  Doesn't mean it's worth it.  They should've just trashed the Nazis and left the cops and the rest of the neighborhood alone.  That's where they screwed up.  Tolerating Nazis in your neighborhood's already ruining it, though.  

Quote

Nice to know your willing to throw away your values just for someone you donít like.

****** Who says violence is against everyone's values?   Used against the right people, violence is golden.  :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
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#17 G1223

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 10:27 AM

Zwolf666, on Oct 18 2005, 02:01 PM, said:

Riots are bad things.

Busting the heads of Nazis, however, is a very good thing.  I don't mind violence against those scumbags at all.   So, at least some good came of it. :)

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



So shall we call it hunting season and go kill them in their homes and not call it murder. If it's ok to do it while they are in the streets why not their homes.

Hell we could kick in the doors of people's home claiming to be on a Nazi hunt and if we do not like the people call them nazi and kill them.

Are you white? I mean I do not know of any hispanic nazi so now we have excuses to attack and kill white folks. throw down a few armbands and you can have the perfect excuse.

Of course when they start shooting at you for attacking them. Or go south park on you.


The part where they shoot black folks and shout out. "He's comming right for me."
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#18 Grandtheftcow

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 10:30 AM

Zwolf666 said:

***** Nope. But, like I said, at least some good came out of the bad. Doesn't mean it's worth it. They should've just trashed the Nazis and left the cops and the rest of the neighborhood alone. That's where they screwed up. Tolerating Nazis in your neighborhood's already ruining it, though.

We live in the age of tolerance Zwolf666. That means you have to tolerate the racist views of this Nazi group, just as you have to tolerate the gay parades promoting their lifestyle, the Black marches promoting racism, anti-abortionist rallies promoting their sometimes extremist views, and feminist bake sales promoting lesbianism.

Just because you donít like them doesnít remove their right to free speech.

Quote

****** Who says violence is against everyone's values? Used against the right people, violence is golden.

One word Jew.

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#19 G1223

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 10:34 AM

Just because you donít like them doesnít remove their right to free speech.



Or their right to equal protection under the law.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#20 Grandtheftcow

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 10:37 AM

G1223, on Oct 18 2005, 10:34 AM, said:

Just because you donít like them doesnít remove their right to free speech.



Or their right to equal protection under the law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Free speech is part of the law :p

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