317 replies to this topic

[Howling Mad]

And to touch on a previous subject, very briefly:

Multinational governments:

Church of Rome -- practically a government unto itself. Most notable feature? The Dark Ages.

United Soviet Socialist Republics. Most notable feature? 100+ million killed.

Yep -- multinational governments is just peachy-keen, ain't they?

Edited by Howling Mad, 25 October 2005 - 04:56 PM.

[Tom Sawyer]

QueenTiye, on Oct 25 2005, 02:23 PM, said:

I don't know any white people who don't know specifically from which part of Europe their families hail. 
QT

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to comment on this part...and I'm not trying to quote you out of context.  It just caught my eye for some reason.

I know exactly where many of my ancestors come from in Europe.  My surname ancestors came from Frenkendorf Switzerland.  My father's mother's family came from Aberdeen Scotland.  My mother's ancestors came from Cork Ireland, West Anglia England, and Nancy France.

Do I know where every single one of my ancestors came from?  Of course not, but I know where the majority of them originated namewise.

Now ultimately, all of our ancestors fell out of a tree somewhere down in Kenya, but as far as Caucasian ancestry goes, you'll find that many of us are interested in it.

[Eskaminzim]

Hate to break in here, but, Coyote Ugly, I think you misinterpreted QT's sentence.  She said she didn't know any white people who didn't know where in Europe their ancestors hailed from.  An unfortunate double negative, I'll grant, <G>, but in essence, you're completely validating her statement, and while I cannot read your mind, I'm not sure you meant to do that.

Or maybe you did, and I'm just full of the stuff that makes the grass grow.

I'd be one of those folks who didn't know where in Europe her ancestors hailed from...but then again, I'm not white...and my ancestors didn't hail from Europe. They hailed from right here in the good ol' US of A!

[Tom Sawyer]

By God, you're right...my bad and my apologies.  That's what I get for speedreading, huh?

I would edit, but we'll just leave it as is.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[waterpanther]

Howling Mad--What  you're calling the "disenfranchisement" of white people is simply the abolition of the special privilege that white people enjoyed for several centuries--as a result of nothing more than being white.  More and more whites are having to compete on an equal basis with other racial and ethnic groups.  The ones that can compete on the level playing field do well.   Those that can't hack it without the special boost formerly given them by their skin color wind up parading down the street in brown shirts or the bed linens.  The one label all these twits have in common is "loser."

The difference between the NAACP and MALDEF on one hand, and the NAAWP on the other, is that the groups represented by the two former have endured systematic and engrained discrimination in American society.  White people haven't, and aren't.  It's a false issue, again raised by those who have no accomplshments of their own, nothing but the color of their skin to be proud of.

[Lin731]

Quote

It's interesting that you got your information about the NSM from another hate group.

In point of fact, there's nothing wrong with what they're advocating.

Since you seemed to have a problem with getting info from an outside hate group (hey I figured who would no the ins and outs better than a fellow hater) but since it bugs you, here's a link to the NSM's sight. Much of it is unpostable here but people can go check out what "there's nothing wrong with what they're advocating. I'll give the board a little taste of the "defenders of my race" straight from their "Commander Jeff" himself:

http://www.nsm88.com.../commander.html

Quote

It is of tantamount importance, that each and every one of us as White Patriots be of steel will and determination! I will refer to a quote by a great American NS martyr, Capt. Joseph Tommassi "We must prepare to seize the day". Our Aryan peoples have triumphed throughout history!

A few examples: in Germany we had Adolf Hitler who fought Communism and Jewry (one and the same), in Romania the great Vlad Dracul (who drove the Turks out of his land), in Serbia the great Prince Lazar who repelled the mongrel invaders out of Kosovo, etc. We are of the Race that drove Genghis Khan and the Huns from Europe, the Race that claimed America, and nearly rid it of the pestilence of the American Indians, the Race that drove the mongrel Mexicans out during the Mexican-American war, and many other glorious accomplishments throughout history!

Apparently Commander Cody there forgot who won WW2 but's he's darned proud of Hitler's attempt to wipe jews off the face of the Earth.

Then there's good ole Vlad the Impaler...I know a guy that impales thousands, (at times while he sat and watched from the field and ate his dinner) is high on MY list of personal heros

And let's set aside the fact that Ghenghis Khan wasn't "driven out of Europe" he died of an illness or old age, and nevermind that his son's actually further expanded the Empire to become largest contiguous empire in world history. The only thing that spared Western Europe was that on the eve of invading Ögedei The Great Khan died and the Batu Khan who had just defeated the Polish-German and Hungarian armies went home to elect a new Great Khan, which turned into a 4 year stalemate. The Mongolian Empire fell from within, not from without due to political infighting. Apparently Commander Cody needs to go back to history class.

BTW...didn't Prince Lazar die at the battle of Kozovo in what amounted to a stalemate and didn't his widow pledge suzerainty to Sultan Murad's successor Bayezid?

Quote

We have a lot to live up to, as today's White Racial Patriots!

We (all pro-White groups) are the last vestiges of our Race who have refused to lie down and die in Multi-Racial, Internationalist, Jewish lead filth. The American economic system is headed towards what could be another great depression.

What brought National Socialism to power in Germany? Economic misery, accompanied by fanatical believers who pushed NS into the mainstream. The Founding Fathers of America used similar situations to liberate America from King George, (no offense to our British Comrades).

All seasoned Racial Patriots understand, to expand means to sacrifice. No sacrifice can be too great, if it helps bring our struggle one step closer to Victory!

Thinking back to what I wrote about being timid, when duty calls. I am not trying to dwell on the issue, I just do not understand the rational. The will to protect and defend one's own, should be a natural instinct!

One time, several years ago while driving through a poor neighbourhood in St.Paul, I noticed a white woman fighting a large *^$$@# male who was trying to steal her purse (interestingly, several unconcerned white males were standing nearby watching the spectacle aimlessly!!!),

I slammed on my brakes, left my car in the middle of the street and chased the *^%%#$ away. To my further surprise, were many angry motorists honking and yelling for me to move my car! I went after the *^&&$% instinctively, as I had seen one of my own Race attacked (a stranger at that).

I apologise to anyone that may be offended by posting (even in part) this hateful trash but given that this is the group we're discussing and given the debate about their "good intentions" and the discussion of what the organisation is really about, I felt it was relevant. If this offends others, I will edit it upon request and if the Mods feel this is an offense that requires a warning, I'll understand. I just think people need to know what this groups all about.

[Howling Mad]

waterpanther, on Oct 25 2005, 07:35 PM, said:

Howling Mad--What  you're calling the "disenfranchisement" of white people is simply the abolition of the special privilege that white people enjoyed for several centuries--as a result of nothing more than being white.

Wrong. When minorities are extended opportunities at the expense of better-qualified individuals for no other reason than that the better-qualified individuals are white, that's institutionalized racism against whites.

That's what we might call "enforced equality" -- except that when it's enforced, it isn't equality, is it.

Quote

Those that can't hack it without the special boost formerly given them by their skin color wind up parading down the street in brown shirts or the bed linens.  The one label all these twits have in common is "loser."

Except that that's exactly what affirmative action is -- a "special boost" based on skin color.

Quote

The difference between the NAACP and MALDEF on one hand, and the NAAWP on the other, is that the groups represented by the two former have endured systematic and engrained discrimination in American society.

No, they haven't -- you're treating them as groups which are collective beings hundreds of years old, instead of as individuals, most of whom have been subjected to no such insitutional discrimination, and none of whom have been subjected to slavery. You can talk about the history of discrimination in this country, but unless you're proposing that these people are immortals, that history has no direct effect on them. And in any case, it's absolutely and utterly irrelevant -- the fact that so many are able to achieve such greatness without benefiting from racial favoritism makes it plain that the favoritism is a crutch given as the short-term remedy for the excuse of a history of persecution -- period.

Quote

White people haven't, and aren't.

I'm sorry, but that is flat-out ignorant -- and no, I'm not using "ignorant" as an epithet, but rather on its dictionary definition. For you to define historical white institutional racism, yet claim that affirmative action is anything but analogous to it, is to ignore the reality of what affirmative action is and how it works, and at whose expense it works.

Edited by Howling Mad, 26 October 2005 - 02:37 AM.

[Howling Mad]

And again, nothing at all wrong with what you quoted. "Racial patriots" of all ethnicities defend their own, and I've yet to see anyone come down as hard on the "hate speech" of any other ethnicity as you've done on whites.

I've seen you make excuses for it. I've seen you justify it. And then, after defending racism, you condemn racism.

What that really shows is exactly the anti-white racism I've been talking about. You applaud one group's attacks and decry the other's defenses. That's practically as racist as it gets, which makes those who do it no different from one another. I'm no different from Linz or QueenTiye in this regard -- we've all been racists in this thread; I'm just throwing my lot in with the underdog.

Edited by Howling Mad, 26 October 2005 - 02:46 AM.

[waterpanther]

Quote

I'm just throwing my lot in with the underdog.

Hmm.  Would that be the "politics of victimization" you're endorsing?

Quote

When minorities are extended opportunities at the expense of better-qualified individuals for no other reason than that the better-qualified individuals are white, that's institutionalized racism against whites.

Quote

Except that that's exactly what affirmative action is -- a "special boost" based on skin color.

What about when majorities are extended opportunities at the expense of better-qualified individuals?  You seem to be fine with five hundred years of effective affirmative action in favor of whites--where's your protest against that?  Or do you also deny that segregation and Jim Crow laws ever happened?

Quote

No, they haven't -- you're treating them as groups which are collective beings hundreds of years old, instead of as individuals, most of whom have been subjected to no such insitutional discrimination, and none of whom have been subjected to slavery.

But you're treating whites as groups.  Seen any blond slaves lately?

Quote

we've all been racists in this thread;

Nonsense.

[Spectacles]

Quote

Commader Jeff (from link provided by Lin): ...in Serbia the great Prince Lazar who repelled the mongrel invaders out of Kosovo, etc. We are of the Race that drove Genghis Khan and the Huns from Europe, the Race that claimed America, and nearly rid it of the pestilence of the American Indians, the Race that drove the mongrel Mexicans out during the Mexican-American war, and many other glorious accomplishments throughout history!

Man, are these yahoos still talking about the non-white mongrel pestilences? This crap is straight outta the KKK. I've seen film clips of Grand Cyclops, Grand Dragons, and Grand Pointy-heads launching into the same spiel. Same language, same wacky ideology. I presume the same losers. They just wrap themselves in different symbols. And call themselves scary things like "Commander Jeff," which for some reason strikes as much fear and awe in me as "Mr. Green Jeans."

There is nothing logical about one's association with such groups. It's all about trying to acquire a powerful identity to make up for one's lack of one. And the lack doesn't come from its being stolen by the "mongrels."

So this Commander Jeff whooshed out of the car to chase a thief because the thief was black and his victim white. (And his feelings were hurt because people honked at him instead of applauding his Defense of the White Race.) I would have done the same thing, and have done similar things, but not because of the races of the individuals involved but because something WRONG was happening.

Lord, one time I took on a huge man in a movie theatre because he'd shoved a friend of mine who'd tried to save seats. He was threatening to go get some bullets for his gun. Guy was obviously nuts and had had some kind of bad day. And apparently he thought that my anger was because he was black, not because he had shoved my friend, who'd just gotten out of the hospital. At one point, my friend literally threw her arm across my shoulders, kind of pushed me back in my seat and said, "settle down." I've never been so furious. I turned back around and when I did he said "yeah you better turn around; us black people are dangerous." Which prompted me to whip back around and snarl "dangerous, my ass, you simple sonofab*tch." The movie came on ("Courage Under Fire") and the theatre breathed a sigh of relief. When the movie was over, I watched Crazy Man and his Girlfriend with the eyes in the back of my head. They left quietly out the side exit. I must've scared them.

Did I fly into a rage because they were black? Hell no. Literally, some of my best friends are black. I flew into a rage because the guy had shoved my friend and I have a pathological hatred of bullies. I wasn't defending the White Race. I wasn't even thinking about race. He was, I wasn't.  But I sure as hell didn't need a Commander Jeff to fly to my rescue.

Commander Jeff is just the flip side of this lunatic I cussed out in the movie theatre, using race-hatred to explain everything, including his own actions.

I read crap like that and just want to press a lever and hear a whooshing sound.

[Zwolf]

Quote

in Romania the great Vlad Dracul (who drove the Turks out of his land),

****** Oh, good, I guess by this dork's standards, I'm finally white.  I come from Vlad's gene pool, but most of the white supremacy types I've had to deal with consider that to be "mongrel."

Quote

Then there's good ole Vlad the Impaler...I know a guy that impales thousands, (at times while he sat and watched from the field and ate his dinner) is high on MY list of personal heros

***** Hey, now, don't you be talkin' 'bout my great-great-great-great-uncle-or-whatever...

Quote

we've all been racists in this thread

****** You may believe that if it helps you feel justified or whatever, but there's no truth in it.  I dislike Nazis.  "Nazi" is not a race.  I also dislike Black Panthers.  "Black Panther" is not a race, either.  

Cheers,

Zwolf

[Howling Mad]

[quote name='waterpanther' date='Oct 26 2005, 05:11 AM']
[quote]I'm just throwing my lot in with the underdog.[/quote]

Hmm.  Would that be the "politics of victimization" you're endorsing?[/quote]

Why not? It's all the rage these days, isn't it? Why are you trying to deny me my share of whiny entitlement spiel but defending everybody else's?

[quote]When minorities are extended opportunities at the expense of better-qualified individuals for no other reason than that the better-qualified individuals are white, that's institutionalized racism against whites.[/quote]

[quote]Except that that's exactly what affirmative action is -- a "special boost" based on skin color.[/quote]

What about when majorities are extended opportunities at the expense of better-qualified individuals?  You seem to be fine with five hundred years of effective affirmative action in favor of whites--where's your protest against that?  Or do you also deny that segregation and Jim Crow laws ever happened?[/quote]

And how many live under segregation and Jim Crow laws right now? That's the point you seem desperate to avoid. Black people are not some 500 year old life form with a collective mind, hate to break it to ya.

[quote][quote]No, they haven't -- you're treating them as groups which are collective beings hundreds of years old, instead of as individuals, most of whom have been subjected to no such insitutional discrimination, and none of whom have been subjected to slavery. [/quote]

But you're treating whites as groups.  Seen any blond slaves lately?[/quote]

No, but if you'd seen the article I posted a link to, let alone read it, you'd know that institutional racism against whites is very real, and very happening today, not almost 40 years ago, or 150 years ago.

[quote][quote]we've all been racists in this thread;[/quote]

Nonsense.
[right]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right]
[/quote]

You've proven in this very post I quoted that it isn't. Don't you hate it when your posts prove my point?

[Howling Mad]

Spectacles, on Oct 26 2005, 05:32 AM, said:

Commander Jeff is just the flip side of this lunatic I cussed out in the movie theatre, using race-hatred to explain everything, including his own actions.

I read crap like that and just want to press a lever and hear a whooshing sound.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And as long as there are people like Theater Boy out there, it's a good thing there are guys like "Commander Jeff" out there, too. Would that neither existed, but I'd rather there are crazy people who look like me set to fend off the crazy people who want me dead because of what I look like. Think of these people like nuclear weapons -- volatile, destructive, to some degree unpredictable -- with real nukes, the only thing that kept Russia from launching on America, or vice versa, was the policy of Mutually Assured Destruction. Same thing with racial extremists. As long as one nation has 'em, it would be sheer, nigh-on-suicidal idiocy for the other to get rid of theirs. It's all well and good to push for them all going away, but that isn't going to happen and you'd have to bear a deathwish for your own to insist that only your side should disarm.

Edited by Howling Mad, 26 October 2005 - 08:53 AM.

[Lin731]

Quote

And as long as there are people like Theater Boy out there, it's a good thing there are guys like "Commander Jeff" out there, too. Would that neither existed, but I'd rather there are crazy people who look like me set to fend off the crazy people who want me dead because of what I look like. Think of these people like nuclear weapons -- volatile, destructive, to some degree unpredictable -- with real nukes, the only thing that kept Russia from launching on America, or vice versa, was the policy of Mutually Assured Destruction. Same thing with racial extremists. As long as one nation has 'em, it would be sheer, nigh-on-suicidal idiocy for the other to get rid of theirs. It's all well and good to push for them all going away, but that isn't going to happen and you'd have to bear a deathwish for your own to insist that only your side should disarm.

Oh please, what exactly is Commander Dipstick gonna do, confuse them into a coma with his revised history of the world? The guy's ignorant, he knows nothing of history, his or anybody else's. He's just another weakminded, loser who has to dress up like Hitler and shave his little, pin-head to pretend to be something more than the "moma's-boy, basement-dwelling, dork that he is. When your identity comes from degrading others as Commander Dipstick's does it simply screams low self-esteem. As far as defending us against the "theater boy" or those like him, no thanks. As Spec's pointed out, most of us are able to take care of ourselves minus and goose-stepping, fashion shows. I don't want or need anyone that ignorant or vile defending my interests. All I needed from him was a shower (after I finished reading his juvenile dreck). As for "racism" from everyone on this thread, I hate stupid and thuggish...PERIOD. I don't care what color it comes in.

[Zwolf]

Quote

Would that neither existed, but I'd rather there are crazy people who look like me set to fend off the crazy people who want me dead because of what I look like. Think of these people like nuclear weapons -- volatile, destructive, to some degree unpredictable -- with real nukes, the only thing that kept Russia from launching on America, or vice versa, was the policy of Mutually Assured Destruction. Same thing with racial extremists. As long as one nation has 'em, it would be sheer, nigh-on-suicidal idiocy for the other to get rid of theirs. It's all well and good to push for them all going away, but that isn't going to happen and you'd have to bear a deathwish for your own to insist that only your side should disarm.

******* You can fight fire with fire, but it's far more effective to use a hose.

Part of the reason there are black extremists is because there are white extremists.  And vice versa.  They feed off of each other, and use each other as a justification for their existence, never realizing that the actual problem is the extremism, which both of them are buying into.

Sure, if there's a black racist out there wanting to kill me, then I have no problem killing him.  But your Thom Metzger types aren't helping me - they're hindering me, by giving the black racist types a sense of justification, and helping them recruit.  You can try to muddle that issue up all you want, but the fact is that you don't have to become the <your race here> version of the other guy in order to combat the other guy.

And not liking groups like the NSM or WAR is not "having a death wish for my own" - it's quite the opposite.  People like them are a liability to their side, not its protector or savior.   They're not doing white people any favors, just as Farrakhan's not helping blacks.

Cheers,

Zwolf

[Howling Mad]

Zwolf666, on Oct 26 2005, 07:29 AM, said:

Quote

Would that neither existed, but I'd rather there are crazy people who look like me set to fend off the crazy people who want me dead because of what I look like. Think of these people like nuclear weapons -- volatile, destructive, to some degree unpredictable -- with real nukes, the only thing that kept Russia from launching on America, or vice versa, was the policy of Mutually Assured Destruction. Same thing with racial extremists. As long as one nation has 'em, it would be sheer, nigh-on-suicidal idiocy for the other to get rid of theirs. It's all well and good to push for them all going away, but that isn't going to happen and you'd have to bear a deathwish for your own to insist that only your side should disarm.

******* You can fight fire with fire, but it's far more effective to use a hose.

Part of the reason there are black extremists is because there are white extremists.  And vice versa.  They feed off of each other, and use each other as a justification for their existence, never realizing that the actual problem is the extremism, which both of them are buying into.

Sure, if there's a black racist out there wanting to kill me, then I have no problem killing him.  But your Thom Metzger types aren't helping me - they're hindering me, by giving the black racist types a sense of justification, and helping them recruit.  You can try to muddle that issue up all you want, but the fact is that you don't have to become the <your race here> version of the other guy in order to combat the other guy.

And not liking groups like the NSM or WAR is not "having a death wish for my own" - it's quite the opposite.  People like them are a liability to their side, not its protector or savior.   They're not doing white people any favors, just as Farrakhan's not helping blacks.

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now, do you have something to back up that claim, or are you just content to make that claim and then walk away patting yourself on the back for your PC-ness, like so many do?

[Howling Mad]

Lin731, on Oct 26 2005, 07:27 AM, said:

Quote

And as long as there are people like Theater Boy out there, it's a good thing there are guys like "Commander Jeff" out there, too. Would that neither existed, but I'd rather there are crazy people who look like me set to fend off the crazy people who want me dead because of what I look like. Think of these people like nuclear weapons -- volatile, destructive, to some degree unpredictable -- with real nukes, the only thing that kept Russia from launching on America, or vice versa, was the policy of Mutually Assured Destruction. Same thing with racial extremists. As long as one nation has 'em, it would be sheer, nigh-on-suicidal idiocy for the other to get rid of theirs. It's all well and good to push for them all going away, but that isn't going to happen and you'd have to bear a deathwish for your own to insist that only your side should disarm.

Oh please, what exactly is Commander Dipstick gonna do, confuse them into a coma with his revised history of the world? The guy's ignorant, he knows nothing of history, his or anybody else's. He's just another weakminded, loser who has to dress up like Hitler and shave his little, pin-head to pretend to be something more than the "moma's-boy, basement-dwelling, dork that he is.

Attack the man's points, not the man. And to head you off on that one, "What points?! HAW HAW!" or "He has no points!" doesn't address his points.

Quote

When your identity comes from degrading others as Commander Dipstick's does it simply screams low self-esteem. As far as defending us against the "theater boy" or those like him, no thanks. As Spec's pointed out, most of us are able to take care of ourselves minus and goose-stepping, fashion shows. I don't want or need anyone that ignorant or vile defending my interests. All I needed from him was a shower (after I finished reading his juvenile dreck). As for "racism" from everyone on this thread, I hate stupid and thuggish...PERIOD. I don't care what color it comes in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And yet here you are attacking someone for their beliefs in a stupid and thuggish manner. Go figure.

[Zwolf]

Quote

Now, do you have something to back up that claim, or are you just content to make that claim and then walk away patting yourself on the back for your PC-ness, like so many do?

****** Who said anything politically correct?  There's nothing "politically correct" in what I said, so please try to stick to the point.

As far as proving that claim, it's pretty hard to do empirically that since we've had racial extremists throughout our history and therefore can't have a test case.    But, I can safely say that we had the Klan first, and the Black Panthers rose up in reaction to that.  Now we have problems all over the place, from varying races.  

As far as wanting to back up the claim that you don't have to be a Nazi to fight against black racists, it's obvious that you don't.   I don't need them - I've got guns of my own.   If somebody tries to kill me because I'm white, then I'll definitely be doing some bodily harm to them, even though I'm never gonna be seig heiling.

Part of your own argument is:

Quote

And as long as there are people like Theater Boy out there, it's a good thing there are guys like "Commander Jeff" out there, too.

You're reacting out of fear of aggressive black people who have a racial agenda, and saying that's why we supposedly need guys like "Commander Jeff."     

My point was:

Quote

Part of the reason there are black extremists is because there are white extremists. And vice versa. They feed off of each other, and use each other as a justification for their existence,

Your justification for "Commander Jeff" just proved the point I was making.  So, I guess I do have something to back up my claim after all; the example that you provided.

Cheers,

Zwolf

[Howling Mad]

Are you saying people shouldn't be afraid of people like "Commander Jeff"?

[Howling Mad]

Quote

And not liking groups like the NSM or WAR is not "having a death wish for my own" - it's quite the opposite. People like them are a liability to their side, not its protector or savior. They're not doing white people any favors, just as Farrakhan's not helping blacks.

That was the claim I want you to back up.

It's like you walking in on your brother and random stranger pointing guns at each other, and berating your brother for not putting his gun down. Sorry, but when it comes to the racial viewpoint, "Commander Jeff" is my brother and "Theater Boy" is the stranger, and as far as I know, if "Theater Boy" gets through "Commander Jeff", I'm next. So you'll pardon me if I'm not rooting for "Theater Boy".