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Riots In Toledo

Ohio Toledo Riots 2005

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#41 QueenTiye

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 03:56 PM

Well - there's a whole body of law that says that hate groups must be treated differently than other groups - but where does that start and end?

Freedom of speech has to remain freedom of speech - and lawbreaking has to remain lawbreaking.

OTOH - I think the city could have refused the permit allowing the march to happen in the predominantly black neighborhood - venues are changed all the time.

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#42 Zwolf

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 04:10 PM

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Well - there's a whole body of law that says that hate groups must be treated differently than other groups - but where does that start and end?

****** It is pretty difficult to define, exactly.  I just know where it starts and ends for me.  There's a lot of stuff I disagree with that I'll still put up with, but Nazis, nope.  Too dangerous to tolerate them.

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Freedom of speech has to remain freedom of speech - and lawbreaking has to remain lawbreaking.

****** True.  I'm not against Nazis being able to have their websites and publish their 'zines and release their Skrewdriver records or whatever... that's speech.  I don't like it, but it's self-expression rather than provoking.  We can't legislate what's in someone's head, no matter how stupid it is... we can just prevent destructive actions.  Like, Tim McVeigh was within his rights to read The Tuner Diaries and dream of overthrowing "ZOG" or whatever other crazy things he was thinking.  It's when he began working to put those plans into action that he needed to be stopped.

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OTOH - I think the city could have refused the permit allowing the march to happen in the predominantly black neighborhood - venues are changed all the time.

****** Good point.

Cheers,

Zwolf
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I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
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#43 Lin731

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 04:11 PM

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No matter how much I don't like the neo-Nazis, I'm sorry - I don't support the riots. The mayor of the city said that the violence was incited by gangs, and that it was known ahead of time that there'd be trouble. To me - that's that. The march happened, and should have happened peacefully. If a black man or woman is killed in a white neighborhood, would it be ok for blacks - to organize a march through that neighborhood in protest of police unfairness, or whatever


Make no mistake QT, I don't support the rioters in this at all. What they did was wrong but I DO understand the anger. Might as well have spit in the faces of every black living in that neighborhood. As I said before, if it was *me* I'd have gotten together every neighbor I could find that had to put up with that Nazi march and I'd have marched through their neighborhoods.

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ZWolf, it's a hard lesson to learn that this is the US where the Constitution rules. The 1st Amendment applies to everyone or it applies to no one...so long as they're peacefully assembling.


Maybe we can corral them all in "free speech zones" sans President Bush eh? Can we respect Nazi's rights to free speech in the same manner our President values it? How about we just refuse them a permit (as has been done often to Peace protestors and political protest Marches), is that the kinda lesson you're referring to?


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Would all this be anything like "Gay Pride" parades?


Only if one has issues with their own sexuality would a "Gay Pride" be viewed as a "threat". Annoying and upsetting to the religious minded as well as many who simply feel homosexuality is wrong but threatening in a real way? NO...Now if you can produce a long history of gays "stringing up" straight folks, beating them, burning crosses on their lawns, vandalizing their homes etc...feel free to post links and I'd consider it.
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#44 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 05:15 PM

Lin731, on Oct 18 2005, 04:11 PM, said:

Make no mistake QT, I don't support the rioters in this at all. What they did was wrong but I DO understand the anger. Might as well have spit in the faces of every black living in that neighborhood. As I said before, if it was *me* I'd have gotten together every neighbor I could find that had to put up with that Nazi march and I'd have marched through their neighborhoods.

After going through a few news articles...and admittedly I haven't read every single article written on the subject...what I'm gathering is that the Nazis gathered at a city park.  Last time I checked, city parks were public property, though YMMV.

Now the park may be in a neighborhood with lots of blacks in it, but any description I find describes it as a former Polish community that it now occupied by the poor.  I see that the idea behind the parade/demonstration was the amount of whites in the neighborhood complaining to the police about black crime in that area.  I can only guess then that the parade happened in the neighborhood in question.

I find the idea that a controversial organization not being allowed to parade through an area because it might offend someone living there to be laughable.

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Maybe we can corral them all in "free speech zones" sans President Bush eh?

Maybe.  The City of Toledo originally turned down the idea of a Nazi parade...stating it wouldn't issue the permit.  The Nazis calmly reminded them that they don't need a permit to walk down the center of the street.  Permits apply when you want city amenities such as police protection, streets roped off, etc.  Would that the protesters of Bush had the same presence of mind to insist on the same, that might have been a different story.

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Can we respect Nazi's rights to free speech in the same manner our President values it?

I'm positive Bush took time out of his busy schedule to plan parade routes and set up "free speech zones."  If you're looking to debate that issue, I suggest you contact these people.

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How about we just refuse them a permit (as has been done often to Peace protestors and political protest Marches), is that the kinda lesson you're referring to?

See above.

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Only if one has issues with their own sexuality would a "Gay Pride" be viewed as a "threat".

An unproven statement...and tantamount to saying "anyone who has a problem with the Nazis must be a Jew."  Incidentally, insinuating those who don't like "Gay Pride" parades must have sexual issues of their own is passe and done to death.

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...Now if you can produce a long history of gays "stringing up" straight folks, beating them, burning crosses on their lawns, vandalizing their homes etc...feel free to post links and I'd consider it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sure! Right after you produce a long history of this group...the ones in question...commiting any of the same atrocities here in the US. :D

See, this is how it goes...and I'm sure many of the liberals in the government are working diligently to reverse this unfortunate trend...in the United States, we hold individuals accountable for their actions...not groups, not groups that might have splintered from other groups, not ideas, and not those who think ideas, but individuals who commit crimes.   That's one of the great things about this nation. ;)
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#45 Spectacles

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 07:15 PM

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CU: Sure! Right after you produce a long history of this [link to brownshirt wannabes] group...the ones in question...commiting any of the same atrocities here in the US.

Well, if you do a search, you can find that these guys aren't boy scouts. Many incidents of intimidation and violence are attributed to them and to their brethren in other White Power groups. And if you check out that site, you really must read the "support" emails, which confirm that these people are losers who attract other losers. They gotta puff themselves up by heiling Hitler and dressing in silly costumes. I bet every last one of them is trying to compensate for his own weakness, much like the real deals did in Nazi Germany.

Sure they have the right to free speech, even if their ideas are essentially repugnant. But if they ever get around to attempting to implement their vision of an America that denies citizenship to blacks, Jews, gays, and whatever other flavors they hate, then it would certainly be time to resist them. IF they ever get that organized politically--and I doubt these yahoos ever could. They're too adolescent--wanting to shock and frighten people by dressing up like Big Bad Boys and saying Scary Stuff. I  personally wouldn't waste an egg throwing it at 'em. But if they ever do seem to pose a serious threat to this country, I'd be all for pelting them with more than eggs and rocks.

It's perfectly logical to say that there's a limit to what one will tolerate. The notion that someone who advocates tolerating differences must tolerate EVERYTHING is just silly rhetoric. If a Nazi party ever seriously did take hold in America, to tolerate its growth would be to tolerate the end of the this country and the principles we say we believe in. Surely these guys wouldn't tolerate anyone who didn't goose-step in time with them if they ever had any real power.
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#46 Zwolf

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 08:20 PM

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I find the idea that a controversial organization not being allowed to parade through an area because it might offend someone living there to be laughable.

********* Oh, the Nazis can parade there.  That's fine.  They should just be prepared to pay the price for their actions.  People can do what they want, on their own turf.  But if somebody comes in my yard and starts yelling about hating my guts and killing me off, then they shouldn't be taken aback if I  make a real nice attempt at putting a crack in their head that most people would be proud to have in their ass.   That's all I'm saying, and I don't know why they'd expect anything different.  We get what we earn.  If I want people to like me, then I better be likeable, because anybody who wants to be liked for being an a-hole deserves to have their faces laughed in.  These guys go out looking to spread hate, so they better expect to get it back.  To quote that great philosopher of our times, Kwai Chang Caine, "If you plant rice, rice will grow."  

People have the right to free speech.  They do not, however, have the right to be unopposed or to demand that we love 'em anyway despite what use they make of that right.  If the Wehrmacht wannabes want to butt heads with gangbangers, I'm all for it - let them kill each other off.  No loss, either way.

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Maybe. The City of Toledo originally turned down the idea of a Nazi parade...stating it wouldn't issue the permit.

******** Wise move.  Who'd want the potential lawsuit? And what mayor would want to run for re-election on the platform that he gave Nazis parade permits?


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See, this is how it goes...and I'm sure many of the liberals in the government are working diligently to reverse this unfortunate trend...in the United States, we hold individuals accountable for their actions...not groups, not groups that might have splintered from other groups, not ideas, and not those who think ideas, but individuals who commit crimes. That's one of the great things about this nation. wink2.gif

******* Any group is just a collection of individuals.  If someone shows up with a group of Nazis and does all the little Hitlerian stupid human tricks, then it's pretty safe to say they're one of the enemy.   I don't care about their ideas, and I don't care what they think - I care about what they do.  If they want to hate anybody for whatever reason, that's fine, as long as they keep it to themselves.  I know there are a lot of racist dolts who would never go out committing hate crimes.  I'm still not going to like 'em, but they'd have nothing to fear from me.  If someone decides to turn it up a notch, though, and they bring it into my airspace and make it something I have to deal with, then I'll deal with it, by whatever means are most appropriate or viable.  And I have no concern at all if it displeases them or any of their enablers.  Those are the breaks.  And they know it, which is why these "individuals" seldom do anything on their own, but travel in packs. And that's why they usually end up being dealt with in packs.  

Cheers,

Zwolf
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Trying to talk to you

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But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
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Trying to talk to you

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I'm never talking to you
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Trying to talk to you."
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#47 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 08:26 PM

A well crafted reply...zounds...!!!

Spectacles, on Oct 18 2005, 07:15 PM, said:

Well, if you do a search, you can find that these guys aren't boy scouts. Many incidents of intimidation and violence are attributed to them and to their brethren in other White Power groups. And if you check out that site, you really must read the "support" emails, which confirm that these people are losers who attract other losers. They gotta puff themselves up by heiling Hitler and dressing in silly costumes. I bet every last one of them is trying to compensate for his own weakness, much like the real deals did in Nazi Germany.

You know, Michael Aquino, the founder of the Temple of Set and an acknowledged expert on PsyWarfare, once said something like "when fascism comes to America, it won't goosestep, it will wear business suits and extol the virtues of 1776."

Now I don't take these bastards seriously, but like I pointed out in my previous post, we prosecute individuals for crimes in the US, unless the organization is dedicated to disrupting the peace.  I see no such indications with the NSM.

What I do see is a group of thugs with a stick up their collective ass about things they don't like.

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Sure they have the right to free speech, even if their ideas are essentially repugnant. But if they ever get around to attempting to implement their vision of an America that denies citizenship to blacks, Jews, gays, and whatever other flavors they hate, then it would certainly be time to resist them. IF they ever get that organized politically--and I doubt these yahoos ever could. They're too adolescent--wanting to shock and frighten people by dressing up like Big Bad Boys and saying Scary Stuff. I  personally wouldn't waste an egg throwing it at 'em. But if they ever do seem to pose a serious threat to this country, I'd be all for pelting them with more than eggs and rocks.

How about just charging them with sedition?  Incidentally, if by some wild stretch of the imagination they do become a potent political force capable of putting people on Capitol Hill, I'm sure they'd have the ability to deal with you should you decide to throw eggs.  History doesn't repeat itself, but it occasionally rhymes.

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It's perfectly logical to say that there's a limit to what one will tolerate. The notion that someone who advocates tolerating differences must tolerate EVERYTHING is just silly rhetoric.

No it's not, and here's why: above and beyond something like the Golden Rule... which is very often a good rule in politics under the table... absolute tolerance of others means you have a moral high ground of sorts should your own views become "intolerable" to others.  I would have thought this was a basic idea and a common decency.  However, I often get fooled in this matter by those who want me to tolerate minority cultures.

I used to be, back in my ministerial days, quite the advocate for minority advancement...affirmative action and all that.  Then one day I woke up, looked in the mirror whle shaving, and thought "Whoa! I'm a white, property-owning male!  I don't have a dog in that fight!"  Now, tolerance to me means allowing others to do as they please so long as their foot isn't flying toward my crotch.  Not out of obligation, you understand, but because it's the easiest and best path to take.  I don't lean on people or entertain fantasies of eliminating their civil rights simply because I don't like them or what they stand for.

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If a Nazi party ever seriously did take hold in America, to tolerate its growth would be to tolerate the end of the this country and the principles we say we believe in. Surely these guys wouldn't tolerate anyone who didn't goose-step in time with them if they ever had any real power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I don't think you have anything to worry about there...short of a successful putsch, the legal process alone would put the brakes on these guys.  They simply couldn't operate within the parameters of our way of life.

Incidentally, if there are any National Socialist/Stormfront lurkers about here, a word of advice: no one in their right mind will take you or your message seriously so long as you wear swastikas and dress up in those retarded-assed brownshirt uniforms.  You look ridiculous in them.  Ditch the costumes, get a job, buy a suit, and learn to speak in college level English, and perhaps you'll gain a couple more followers.  I doubt it, but it's certainly worth a try.  I've been to your website, and I have a few more tips for you:

1. If you're wanting to emulate the NSDAP of 1930s Germany, then you should speak passable German.  The Nazis didn't call their symbol a swastika...they called it either the hakencruz or krukencruz.  A real Nazi would know that (before you say it: no I'm not a Nazi, but I play one on TV).
2. The Brownshirts were culturally disemboweled in the Night of the Long Knives by Hitler himself and reduced to a shadow of their former selves.  Try wearing the black uniforms of the SS for better effect...but lose some weight first.  I saw some of your pictures there, and some of you need to ease off the twinkies.  Fat people should never...ever wear black.
3. Your 25 Points is obviously cribbed from the NSDAP's original 25 Points.  Try writing your own.  It's those crazy, original, out-of-nowhere thoughts that really grab the fringe elements.

Edited by CoyoteUgly, 18 October 2005 - 08:29 PM.

The Future...Unless Things Change.

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#48 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 08:28 PM

ZWolf...last time I checked, assault and battery is a crime... parading in stupid costumes isn't.
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#49 Zwolf

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 08:34 PM

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ZWolf...last time I checked, assault and battery is a crime... parading in stupid costumes isn't.

********* Even though they've been trained to try to provoke the other guy into taking the first swing, it's usually not too hard to flip the script on these dimwits.  And self-defense isn't a crime.  :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
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"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
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#50 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 08:40 PM

Zwolf666, on Oct 18 2005, 08:34 PM, said:

Quote

ZWolf...last time I checked, assault and battery is a crime... parading in stupid costumes isn't.

********* Even though they've been trained to try to provoke the other guy into taking the first swing, it's usually not too hard to flip the script on these dimwits.  And self-defense isn't a crime.  :)

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Unfortunately as well, being a jackass isn't a crime either.  If it were, most of the Democratic Party and probably more than half the Republican Party would be serving sentences.

Nope...the Nazis, believe it or not, were in the right, and the rioters were in the wrong.  Anyone with a smidgen of respect for the law would see that.
The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#51 DWF

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 08:40 PM

CoyoteUgly, on Oct 18 2005, 09:28 PM, said:

last time I checked, assault and battery is a crime... parading in stupid costumes isn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thank God, no sci-fi would be safe then.  :angel:
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#52 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 08:41 PM

DWF, on Oct 18 2005, 08:40 PM, said:

CoyoteUgly, on Oct 18 2005, 09:28 PM, said:

last time I checked, assault and battery is a crime... parading in stupid costumes isn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thank God, no sci-fi would be safe then.  :angel:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hey, a lot of Doctor Who eps from the lean years were almost criminal.  :lol:

Examples: The Power Of Kroll and Stones of Blood.  Good God!

Edited by CoyoteUgly, 18 October 2005 - 08:42 PM.

The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#53 Zwolf

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 08:54 PM

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No it's not, and here's why: above and beyond something like the Golden Rule... which is very often a good rule in politics under the table... absolute tolerance of others means you have a moral high ground of sorts should your own views become "intolerable" to others.

******** Moral high ground doesn't do ya a heck of a lot of good if somebody's making you the guest of honor at a boot party because they don't approve of you having "mud race" friends.   I figure I could go out and club baby seals and still have the moral high ground over somebody who follows Adolph Hitler.

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I would have thought this was a basic idea and a common decency.

******* Tolerating everything is no virtue.  Common decency is wasted on those who won't give it to people based on factors beyond their control, such as how much melanin they've got.


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However, I often get fooled in this matter by those who want me to tolerate minority cultures.

******** Don't feel bad - I've got people on my back because I don't tolerate some minority cultures, too.  For instance, my low tolerance for Nazis seems to not sit well with some. ;)


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I used to be, back in my ministerial days, quite the advocate for minority advancement...affirmative action and all that. Then one day I woke up, looked in the mirror whle shaving, and thought "Whoa! I'm a white, property-owning male! I don't have a dog in that fight!"

****** And here I thought you didn't subscribe to Ayn Rand. :)  If that attitude works for you, fine.  But I don't need a vested interest to try to do what I think is right.  I have black friends, so I'll count that as a dog in the fight.  

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Now, tolerance to me means allowing others to do as they please so long as their foot isn't flying toward my crotch. Not out of obligation, you understand, but because it's the easiest and best path to take. I don't lean on people or entertain fantasies of eliminating their civil rights simply because I don't like them or what they stand for.

*******  I'm sure they appreciate it, even if I don't hold it in much regard. :)

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Nope...the Nazis, believe it or not, were in the right, and the rioters were in the wrong. Anyone with a smidgen of respect for the law would see that.

******* Put me down as not respecting the law in this case, then.  I don't mind.  

Cheers,

Zwolf

*edited to correct some grammar*

Edited by Zwolf666, 18 October 2005 - 09:31 PM.

"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#54 DWF

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 09:07 PM

If they closed Pacos because of this the riots will never end.  :eek2:
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#55 Nick

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 09:31 PM

I have to say I find the comparison of neo-Nazis purposely marching through a black neighborhood with gay pride parades particularly ridiculous.

First of all, gay pride parades are seldom all that confrontational and usually stick to main roads and predominately gay-freindly areas.  You shouldn't give much creedence to much of the media coverage of such events.  The actual parades mostly consist of local gay-friendly establishments, supportive and pro-gay groups such as PFLAG and HRC, with a bit of whimsy mixed in.  (They often start with groups of lesbian motorcyle enthusiasts zipping around somewhat crazilly).  The idea is to showcase and encourage support and acceptance.  It is for this very reason that gay pride parades don't march through the Westboro Baptist Church or hold circuit parties on Fred Phelp's lawn.

The skinheads may have had a right to march through the black neighborhood--I wouldn't have faulted the city for denying it on public safety/incitement grounds.  We all have free speech, but you still get into trouble for yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre.  But I suppose they did the best they could given the circumstances . . . have police ready and clean up the inevitable mess . . . perhaps send a few strongly worded pleadings to the organizers of this little "peaceful demonstration" to march through areas less likely to get themselves shot.

The gang members will face the consequences of their actions, the skinheads were well aware of where they were going and that there's only so much the city could do to protect them, and the poor residents of the neighborhood and rest of the black community get left cleaning up both the gangs' and skinheads' messes . . . and all the taxpayers foot the bill.  Business as usual, tragically.

-Nick

#56 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 10:14 PM

Zwolf666, on Oct 18 2005, 08:54 PM, said:

******** Moral high ground doesn't do ya a heck of a lot of good if somebody's making you the guest of honor at a boot party because they don't approve of you having "mud race" friends.   I figure I could go out and club baby seals and still have the moral high ground over somebody who follows Adolph Hitler.

See, now you're mistranslating what I said, aren't you?  I didn't say you had to take a beating over it.  That's quite a stretch.  I said...and I'll break it down for you in simple terms...if you want to be tolerated for your ideas and opinions, it's probably a good idea to extend that courtesy to others.  That's a really high hurdle for those who think they're always right.

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***** Tolerating everything is no virtue.  Common decency is wasted on those who won't give it to people based on factors beyond their control, such as how much melanin they've got.

More of the same.

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******** Don't feel bad - I've got people on my back because I don't tolerate some minority cultures, too.  For instance, my low tolerance for Nazis seems to not sit well with some. ;)

How about Black Panthers?

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****** And here I thought you didn't subscribe to Ayn Rand. :)

I don't.  She was more pie-in-the-sky than most liberals ever dreamed of being.

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If that attitude works for you, fine.

I can rest well tonight knowing my attitudes are at least nominally approved  by ZWolf666.

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But I don't need a vested interest to try to do what I think is right.  I have black friends, so I'll count that as a dog in the fight. 

Good for you.

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*******  I'm sure they appreciate it, even if I don't hold it in much regard. :)

And I thought we were becoming friends.

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******* Put me down as not respecting the law in this case, then.  I don't mind. 

I'm not surprised.

Edited by CoyoteUgly, 18 October 2005 - 10:14 PM.

The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#57 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 10:16 PM

Nick, on Oct 18 2005, 09:31 PM, said:

I have to say I find the comparison of neo-Nazis purposely marching through a black neighborhood with gay pride parades particularly ridiculous.

Well, I don't, but that's fodder for another thread.

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It is for this very reason that gay pride parades don't march through the Westboro Baptist Church or hold circuit parties on Fred Phelp's lawn.

This is the other sentence in your post I found interesting.  C'mon...tell me it's not funny to think about two big hairy trannies making out and getting it on under a tree in his front yard.  What's Phelps going to do about it...get up out of his wheelchair and fart dust at them?  :lol:
The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#58 Zwolf

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 07:55 AM

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See, now you're mistranslating what I said, aren't you?

***** No.  I didn't say you were saying that.  What I was meaning is, if you let these guys get a foothold in your town, then pretty soon they'll be running it.  Then it's a little too late to just tolerate them, because they'll be stomping you if you do something they don't like.  The time to stop the snowball is while it's still at the top of the hill.

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I didn't say you had to take a beating over it. That's quite a stretch. I said...and I'll break it down for you in simple terms...if you want to be tolerated for your ideas and opinions, it's probably a good idea to extend that courtesy to others. That's a really high hurdle for those who think they're always right.

******* I do usually tolerate people whose ideas and opinions I don't agree with.  I'm polite with evangelical Christians, for instance, because even though I don't like their ideas much, I credit them with meaning well, even if they are (in my opinion) misguided.  Same goes with radical vegans, or tree-huggers, or a lot of other groups that sometimes get on my nerves.  Nazis don't deserve that same courtesy, though - not in my book.  Their agenda is different.  Tolerating them is as wise as tolerating cancer.


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How about Black Panthers?

**** Kill 'em all.  Black power, white power, same s**t, different shade.  


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I can rest well tonight knowing my attitudes are at least nominally approved by ZWolf666.

******** :)


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And I thought we were becoming friends.

****** Sorry, not interested.  Thanks anyway, though. :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#59 darthsikle

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Posted 19 October 2005 - 08:16 AM

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***



a
Goodbye.

#60 Zwolf

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  • 3,683 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 08:20 AM

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********************************************************************************
****



a

***** Typing is fun, isn't it?

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"



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