Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Riots In Toledo

Ohio Toledo Riots 2005

  • Please log in to reply
317 replies to this topic

#81 Tom Sawyer

Tom Sawyer

    Harbinger of The Abyss

  • Dead account
  • 1,166 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 04:36 PM

Zwolf666, on Oct 19 2005, 04:15 PM, said:

Quote

Which sounds to me like you'd like to curtail their 1st Amendment rights.

***** The article is about a riot caused by the Nazis marching through a black neighborhood, no?  That's action more than it is speech, and there's not much doubt what the goal of it is.

Prove it.

Quote

Tell me if there is a difference: if I post "I don't like you" here on the board, that's one thing.  You won't like it, you'll probably post "I don't like you, either," and... meh.   That's one thing.  It's free speech, and easy to shrug off, because what's the threat?  Nil.

Violation of Guideline 1A, but I'd probably let it slide.

Quote

Now, say I show up in your driveway (or the street in front of your house, if property is an issue) screaming about how I hate your guts.  Would you still say, "Well, it's nice to see you exercising your rights," or would you come out and make a good attempt at shutting me up?

I have a 1/8 mile long driveway, so I might not hear you, but that's something else entirely.

Actually, you've yet to prove that the Nazis were deliberately provoking the blacks in that neighborhood.  Additionally, since the neighborhood isn't entirely black...which was kinda the point of the whole thing...who's to say the whites of that neighborhood didn't welcome the parade?  I doubt they did, but you see the can of worms you're opening up there?

So, I'll have to call your example a false analogy.

Quote

Somehow I doubt you'd be as tolerant as you're expecting the targets of these Nazis to be.

Don't take this personally, but you stink at reading people's minds.

Quote

Nice comic... but isn't the cartoon coyote infringing on the redhead's first ammendment rights there?  You might want to request an edit from the artist. ;)

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Actually, it's assault and battery.
The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#82 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 05:08 PM

Quote

Really. So you respond to racism with racism. Interesting. I also find it interesting in light of the fact that the majority of prison population is either black, hispanic, ect. Granted, there are whites there as well. But they are far outnumbered by the blacks.


Thanks for verifying exactly what my point was and what Bennets comments amounted to...racism. I merely took his example and turned it around and low and behold, suddenly I'M racist for commenting that you could abort all white babies and reduce crime too. Up to now the arguments been that Bennets comments WEREN'T racist when in fact they were. So if it was racist for me to make such a comment (even if merely turnng Bennets comments on it's ear) than it certainly WAS racist when Bennet concieved of the notion and expressed it publically. Why the disparity in prison population, because whites are less likely to recieve jail terms, more likely to be allowed to plea bargain for lesser offenses.

http://www.crf-usa.o..._of_justice.htm

Quote

Plea Bargaining

More than 90 percent of all criminal cases never go to trial. The defendant pleads guilty, often after the prosecutor and defense attorney negotiate. A 1990 study of about 1,000 cases by the U.S. Sentencing Commission found that whites did better in plea bargains. Twenty-five percent of whites, 18 percent of blacks, and 12 percent of Latinos got their sentences reduced through bargaining. The reason for the disparity was not determined.

The San Jose Mercury News conducted a massive study of 700,000 California legal cases over a 10-year period. The paper reported in December 1991 that a third of the white adults who were arrested, but had no prior record, were able to get felony charges against them reduced. Only a quarter of the African-Americans and Latinos with no priors were as successful in plea bargaining.

Sentencing

The 1983 RAND Corporation study found that convicted African-Americans were more likely than whites to go to prison. And their sentences were longer. "This disparity," the study concluded, "suggests that probation officers, judges, and parole boards are exercising discretion in sentencing or release decisions in ways that result in de facto discrimination against blacks." De facto means the discrimination exists in fact, but without legal authority. It may not be intentional.

Unintended discrimination can occur at many points in the legal process. Probation officers often prepare pre-sentencing reports for a judge. The judge uses the reports to help make sentencing decisions. Reports include information on the criminal's prior record, family background, education, marital status, and employment history. Many AfricanAmericans convicted of crimes come from deprived backgrounds. They may have things in their record--unemployment, trouble in school, family problems--that judges, who largely come from middle-class backgrounds, cannot relate to. This may sway some judges to treat them more harshly in sentencing.

In a 1999 survey of studies on discrimination in the justice system, researcher Christopher Stone found that much of the disparity in sentencing could be traced to differences in arrest charges and prior records of those convicted. He concluded: "There is no evidence of disparity that stretches across the justice system as a whole . . . . But studies of individual jurisdictions and specific parts of the court process do find some evidence of race bias in a significant number of cases."

Stone considered drug offences separately. Some federal mandatory sentences have come under fire for discriminating against minorities. Critics point to different sentences mandated for crack cocaine, a drug popular in poor minority communities, and powder cocaine, a drug used in wealthier communities. Under federal law, dealing five grams of crack cocaine gets a first offender a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. To receive a similar mandatory minimum sentence for trafficking in powder cocaine, an offender must possess 500 grams. Stone stated: "Whatever one believes about the rationality of the decision to create special, harsher penalties for crack cocaine, the concentration of these sentences on black defendants is striking."

States often have similar disparities in drug sentencing laws. In a 1996 study of California drug sentencing laws, researchers found that possession of crack cocaine and heroin, more commonly used by minorities, carried stiffer penalties than possession of methamphetamines, more commonly used by whites.


http://www.ojp.usdoj...ance/cprace.htm

Quote

For all races, the number of adults in the correctional population increased from 1986-97; the number of blacks almost doubled and the number of whites rose by two-thirds.


Quote

The main point I've been trying to get across is: those who want to deny crackheads like the NSM their Constitutional rights to peacefully assemble aren't much better than aforementioned crackhead NSM members.

I didn't say let them carry through with their agenda. There's a difference, and it doesn't take much intelligence to realize that.

Sorry, but I'm a little better than all that. I guess those of us who've had to sweat for liberty savor it a little better than those who haven't, but whatever...


And the main point I'm trying to make as I don't feel the need or desire to support the rights of thugs to assemble and what you call "Peacefully assembling" I call a deliberate attempt to incite and or intimidate a predominantly black neighborhood.

What you call "tolerance" I call enabling...and if you "sweated for the liberty" of thugs to push an agenda that led to a war that many did more than "sweat" for, they died to put down, well so be it.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#83 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 05:37 PM

But who gets to decide who does and does not have the right to free assembly?

You? but how do I know you don't stand for things i dissaprove of, or are against those things I support

A goverment? they change, and while no goverment today could conceive of banning some groups, such as blacks, gays or women the right to assemble, those in the past have, and who knows if those in the future might try again

is there anyone, or any group that we could truly trust to decide who does and does not have access to the same rights as everyone else? It may be distastefull, but if one is going to have a law of the land, should not that law apply to all in that land?

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#84 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 07:12 PM

There's no right to deliberately provoke violence and create situations that will physically endanger/harm people and/or other people's property. That, not just "speech", was what these skinheads were up to.

#85 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 09:21 PM

Quote

Prove it.

********* We can take turns being the irresistable force and the immovable object all day (and I think we've already proven that, if nothing else), but it's not going to get anywhere.  I can no more "prove" that they were intending harm than you can "prove" that they weren't.   All I know is, a bunch of people who define themselves by hating blacks marched into a neighborhood full of blacks to stage a rally about hating blacks.  To me, this seems to be fairly obvious  malefic behavior, but, maybe I'm just not "tolerant" enough.  If you refuse to acknowledge the bad intent of that, then you won't.  And that's fine.  I'm not insisting that you see it my way.

On a purely solipsistic scale, I can't "prove" that somebody who tosses a match into a bucket of gasoline intended to start a big fire, either.  Maybe they were just dumb and thought the match would go out.  Maybe he was just trying to set up a signal light so nobody would trip over that dangerous bucket.  It's even possible that he was just acting to show his love for Jodie Foster.  Who knows?  I'd assume that a big-ass fire was the goal, but they tell me I'm too quick to judge things based on overwhelming evidence, and too slow to take such things as alien-mind-control into account.  

So, perhaps the Nazis just had a big ol' collective brainfart and forgot that black people might feel threatened by their presence and racist chanting.  They had the best of intentions, I'm sure, and it's too bad the riot broke out before they could start passing out the free cupcakes.  


Quote

Violation of Guideline 1A, but I'd probably let it slide.

******** It's a theorhetical situation, in any case.   If I was gonna do a 1A, I'd do something more creative.


Quote

I have a 1/8 mile long driveway, so I might not hear you, but that's something else entirely.

********* I could borrow some PA equipment from a friend's punk band, if necessary.  They're louder'n Motorhead! :)

Quote

Actually, you've yet to prove that the Nazis were deliberately provoking the blacks in that neighborhood. Additionally, since the neighborhood isn't entirely black...which was kinda the point of the whole thing...who's to say the whites of that neighborhood didn't welcome the parade? I doubt they did, but you see the can of worms you're opening up there?

******** While we're speculating, it's also possible that the entire neighborhood was filled with robots,  who were just made to look like human beings, and it was all an intricate plot engineered by our secret enemies in Burkina Fasa!  Damn you Burkina Fasaaaa!  But then the Fantastic Four could just show up and handle the whole shebang, so nobody would've had to riot in the first place.  It's fun to make things up... but I'm not real concerned about a can of worms (not when the Fantastic Four are around, I'm not!  Even though worms are scary!).  The fact is, these guys are muhfrickin' Nazis.  It's a huge stretch  to imagine that they have any good intentions, regardless of the situation.  I'm not that generous with them.  When the object in question is a pice of crap, I think it's fair game to criticize the smell.

But I always do enjoy sidetrips to Speculationville, because there's always that wonderful possibility that Vikings will show up, and you almost never see them in Realityland.  :)

Quote

So, I'll have to call your example a false analogy.

******** If it's the magic laxative that'll help move you past this obsession with being "right" about what is essentially a difference of opinion, then I don't mind if you call it Susan. :)


Quote

Don't take this personally, but you stink at reading people's minds.

******** I blame the small print.  That, and a lack of sufficient interest in the subject to really work at it.  And, possibly but not necessarily, not enough familiarity with sociopathia.  :)

Quote

Actually, it's assault and battery.

****** Whichever.  In any case, I think it was nice of the artist to give you some of the peer approval that seems to mean so much to you.  Thanks for sharing your treasure with us.  My heart was warmed.  Or possibly my pancreas.  Anyway, something in there felt somethingorother. :)

Might've been gas.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#86 Tom Sawyer

Tom Sawyer

    Harbinger of The Abyss

  • Dead account
  • 1,166 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 10:25 PM

Ok, I'm calling it:

10:31 pm CDT...you've run out of arguments. ;)
The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#87 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 10:45 PM

Quote

Thanks for verifying exactly what my point was and what Bennets comments amounted to...racism. I merely took his example and turned it around and low and behold, suddenly I'M racist for commenting that you could abort all white babies and reduce crime too. Up to now the arguments been that Bennets comments WEREN'T racist when in fact they were. So if it was racist for me to make such a comment (even if merely turnng Bennets comments on it's ear) than it certainly WAS racist when Bennet concieved of the notion and expressed it publically.
So you made a racist comment to make a point....just like Bennett did.

But of course...he's EVIL or something. :Oo:

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#88 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 19 October 2005 - 11:02 PM

btw what the hell does free speech have to do with being a deliberate organized pain in the ass? Damn...I haven't agreed with Zwolf this much since he nominated me for that World's Sexiest Man contest.(I won of course...but it was an honor simply to be nominated) Zwolf if you keep this up, I'll have to re-evaluate my opinion of punk rock and throw out all my YES CD's :cool:

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#89 Smudge

Smudge
  • Just Washed Ashore
  • 26 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:10 AM

Quote

Nope. But, like I said, at least some good came out of the bad. Doesn't mean it's worth it. They should've just trashed the Nazis and left the cops and the rest of the neighborhood alone.

Here'the thing, though.

The organizer of the White Seperatist  group, in an article, said that when things started getting out of hand, the police asked them to dispurse, and they all got in their cars and left.  None of them were arrested or involved in any of the violence.  I'm not on their side, but it's interesting, no?

They marched and they left.  The rest was up to the citizens, and they shamed themselves.  IMHO

That said, I have come to the conclusion that it is not a matter of race, but of urbanity (if that's a word).  I honestly believe that the best thing a mother could do for her children in a urban neighborhood situation would be to drive, take a bus, or walk out of the city.  Period.  

bb

bb

#90 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:26 AM

Lin731, on Oct 19 2005, 05:08 PM, said:

Thanks for verifying exactly what my point was and what Bennets comments amounted to...racism. I merely took his example and turned it around and low and behold, suddenly I'M racist for commenting that you could abort all white babies and reduce crime too. Up to now the arguments been that Bennets comments WEREN'T racist when in fact they were. So if it was racist for me to make such a comment (even if merely turnng Bennets comments on it's ear) than it certainly WAS racist when Bennet concieved of the notion and expressed it publically.

Good point. I'll concede that Bennet's comments were racist. He still has the right to freedom of speech, however hateful that speech might be. The same right that these Nazi's have. And of course there march was designed to try and spark a riot, and they obviously got what they wanted.

Those who rioted were too stupid to realize that they were playing right into the Nazi's hands.


Quote

Why the disparity in prison population, because whites are less likely to recieve jail terms, more likely to be allowed to plea bargain for lesser offenses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Again, good point.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#91 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:31 AM

Delvo, on Oct 19 2005, 07:12 PM, said:

There's no right to deliberately provoke violence and create situations that will physically endanger/harm people and/or other people's property. That, not just "speech", was what these skinheads were up to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You mean like Geraldo did by putting the NAACP and the KKK on the same stage, on the same show? The show where chairs went flying?

Granted, not a smart move...but certainly not illegal.

People are NOT responsible for other people's actions. Did the Nazi skinheads think a riot would occur? In all probability they hoped one would...it would prove their point, validate their message in their minds. But they are NOT responsible for those that threw rocks and assaulted police. Those that did those criminal acts are the ones responsible.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#92 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 08:01 AM

Quote

Ok, I'm calling it:

10:31 pm CDT...you've run out of arguments.

***** Newsflash, fella: we both ran out of arguments two days ago.  This isn't really debatable - you have one opinion on the subject and keep re-stating it, and I have a different opinion on the subject and I keep re-stating that.  And that's 'bout as far as this was ever going to get.   At 10:31 I didn't run out of arguments... I just got bored with the round-de-rounds, decided if there was to be any entertainment at all to be had from this then I - being the most qualified - better bring it myself, and went all Chuck Jones on ya.   So, Abraca-hocus, I'm Bugs Bunny and I done found me a Fudd!  Hereyago, Doc - have an ACME product. :)

I took a peek at a version of this thread in another place, and I think that one ran out of ideas before it was even posted.  Originally I'd thought you were just playing devil's advocate, but now I think it may have been just plain devil, with a higher percentage of "defendant" than "lawyer" than I'd originally thought.  

Since that is the case, I bid you mediocre day, sir.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#93 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 08:09 AM

Quote

btw what the hell does free speech have to do with being a deliberate organized pain in the ass?

******* I've never quite figured that one out myself.  I've never been organized, but I have (on rare occasions, usually after eating too much breakfast cereal) been a pain in the ass... but, when I've done that, I could acknowledge it and take whatever negative consequences I'd earned.  It's the code of the schoolyard!

Quote

Damn...I haven't agreed with Zwolf this much since he nominated me for that World's Sexiest Man contest.(I won of course...but it was an honor simply to be nominated)

******* It was either you or Charles Nelson Reilley, pal, and, much as I hate to admit it, you got a lot more style than Charlie! :)

Quote

Zwolf if you keep this up, I'll have to re-evaluate my opinion of punk rock and throw out all my YES CD's 

***** This was my evil plan all along! ;) But, you don't have to throw out the Yes CDs... just expand.  When listening to lots of punk gets a little tiring and you want more than 3-chords, you can go back to the 18-chord Yes stuff again for a while... and then The Exploited will sound even better when you come back to them. :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#94 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 10:42 AM

Quote

So you made a racist comment to make a point....just like Bennett did.

But of course...he's EVIL or something.


Actually my intent wasn't to be racist, merely taking Bennets comments and turning them around. At least in the example I used, I wasn't predicating it on someone else's race (since I happen to be white) which was my point really. The fact that Bennet chose his "hypothetical" model for reducing crime based on blacks made it pretty clear to me that he's racist. If I'm gonna throw a hypothetical out there, I'm gonna use my own race as an example...Of course I'd never have thought up Bennet's little "crime reduction" scenero myself. The fact that Bennet's mind would concieve of it in the first place is disturbing to me. All I did was change the race involved in Bennets scenero...So if I'm understanding you properly, Bennet was just "spitballing" and not racist but *I* am for using HIS example and at least having the decency to apply it to my own race? Ummm... Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

LoTs,

I'm really glad you understand the point I was trying to make and please don't misunderstand me...I was never claiming Bennet didn't have the right under our constitution to say whatever he wanted to. I was just asserting that he DOESN'T have the right to make those comments unchallenged. If you say a thing like that, others have an equal right to call you on it and to make judgements about you based on what you have said. I DO feel differently about these Nazi's though because we've already seen what happens when their agenda is put in play...genocide. It's an organization that's entire reason for existing is based on abuse, suppression and ultimately the extermination of others. I liken their "Peaceful March" through a black neighborhood as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. I doubt even that bunch is stupid enough to NOT to realise they were inciting some and intimidating others in that community, throw in the taunting/insulting of the locals and I'd say their motives were pretty transparent. Millions of People died to bring down the Nazi's and I just can't see allowing them to attempt to grow in numbers and strength ever again. Too many died the last time their hatred was allowed to take form.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#95 Tom Sawyer

Tom Sawyer

    Harbinger of The Abyss

  • Dead account
  • 1,166 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:17 PM

Zwolf666, on Oct 20 2005, 08:01 AM, said:

Quote

Ok, I'm calling it:

10:31 pm CDT...you've run out of arguments.

***** Newsflash, fella: we both ran out of arguments two days ago.  This isn't really debatable - you have one opinion on the subject and keep re-stating it, and I have a different opinion on the subject and I keep re-stating that.  And that's 'bout as far as this was ever going to get.   At 10:31 I didn't run out of arguments... I just got bored with the round-de-rounds, decided if there was to be any entertainment at all to be had from this then I - being the most qualified - better bring it myself, and went all Chuck Jones on ya.   So, Abraca-hocus, I'm Bugs Bunny and I done found me a Fudd!  Hereyago, Doc - have an ACME product. :)

I took a peek at a version of this thread in another place, and I think that one ran out of ideas before it was even posted.  Originally I'd thought you were just playing devil's advocate, but now I think it may have been just plain devil, with a higher percentage of "defendant" than "lawyer" than I'd originally thought.  

Since that is the case, I bid you mediocre day, sir.

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I can only say this: if you think the Nazis are so bad and such trouble makers, then I invite you to take a gander at the attached photo.  It's from camera footage of the looting.

IF YOU THINK THE NAZIS ARE SO BAD, THEN I'LL SIDE WITH THE NAZIS.

Attached Files


The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#96 Corwin

Corwin

    fortitudo ac honor

  • Islander
  • 1,695 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:28 PM

and they say a picture is worth a thousand words.....


Corwin
"The Enemy is upon us, so Lock and Load, Brothers.  The Emperor Calls and the Forces of Chaos must be driven back.  Though all of us will fall, none of us shall fail!"

#97 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,326 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:36 PM

So lawlessness that breaks out in a community which is already besieged with incidents of lawlessness makes people side with people who are advocating racism, instead of siding with equal application of law?

When Malcolm X recommended fighting back against the vicious white supremicist tactics, instead of non-violent protest, he was branded a radical.  When black people find themselves sympathizing with the Nation of Islam, considered racist by most, because of the vicious cycle of dispair perpetuated by racism over long periods of time, people get angry at black people.

After all, perhaps the nazi march was successful.  Predictable outbreak of violence - known to be threatened to happen ahead of time - causes some white people to side with nazis.

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#98 Corwin

Corwin

    fortitudo ac honor

  • Islander
  • 1,695 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:41 PM

In this case... it's 2 wrongs definitely don't make a right.

Although I despise the Nazi ideology and neo-nazis (all other racists of all colors), they did nothing illegal in this case.

The people who were rioting are the ones who broke the law.


Corwin
"The Enemy is upon us, so Lock and Load, Brothers.  The Emperor Calls and the Forces of Chaos must be driven back.  Though all of us will fall, none of us shall fail!"

#99 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:52 PM

Lin731, on Oct 20 2005, 10:42 AM, said:

LoTs,

I'm really glad you understand the point I was trying to make and please don't misunderstand me...I was never claiming Bennet didn't have the right under our constitution to say whatever he wanted to. I was just asserting that he DOESN'T have the right to make those comments unchallenged. If you say a thing like that, others have an equal right to call you on it and to make judgements about you based on what you have said.

Oh without doubt!

Quote

I DO feel differently about these Nazi's though because we've already seen what happens when their agenda is put in play...genocide. It's an organization that's entire reason for existing is based on abuse, suppression and ultimately the extermination of others. I liken their "Peaceful March" through a black neighborhood as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. I doubt even that bunch is stupid enough to NOT to realise they were inciting some and intimidating others in that community, throw in the taunting/insulting of the locals and I'd say their motives were pretty transparent. Millions of People died to bring down the Nazi's and I just can't see allowing them to attempt to grow in numbers and strength ever again. Too many died the last time their hatred was allowed to take form.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Here I have to disagree. Their march was NOT the same as yelling Fire in a crowded theater. There was a chance, however small, that those the nazi were trying to provoke wouldn't take the bait. Wouldn't play right into their hands. There was a chance, however small, that they would be smarter then that. Unfortunately the Nazi's were proved right.

There intent may have been to incite a riot, but it wasn't a certainity. These rioters broke the law, and should be punished accordingly.

Yes, millions died bringing down hitler and the Nazi's...but under our laws they still have rights. If you take away their rights, whose next? The Muslim's? Because it was muslim's that attacked us on 9-11. Should we take their rights away next?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#100 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 20 October 2005 - 12:58 PM

Quote

I can only say this:

******** I... SAID... MEDIOCRE... DAY!  :D  (When someone grants you some mercy, you really should take it, y'know.)  

Quote

if you think the Nazis are so bad and such trouble makers, then I invite you to take a gander at the attached photo. It's from camera footage of the looting.

******** Did I ever say the looters were right?  Nope.  Looting is a criminal act, and they should be locked up.   Like LOTS said back up there, whatever the Nazis did, it doesn't justify the people assaulting the police or looting the stores.  And I never said that it did.  All I said was, at least this bad event had the fortunate by-product of some Nazis getting hurt in the bargain.  Too bad that couldn't have happened without the looting and such, but, that's how it turned out, so, jail those responsible.  I highly doubt, however, that the looters represent any sizeable percentage of the people the Nazis were trying to terrorize.   In any case, I'm glad they got caught on tape - it'll come in handy in aprehending those responsible.

Quote

IF YOU THINK THE NAZIS ARE SO BAD, THEN I'LL SIDE WITH THE NAZIS.

****** Their loss.   In any case, it's a fortunate decision, because in light of my recon work, I'd kinda decided not to really give you much other choice at this point.  :)  I have such power, if I can lead you into sympathizing with scumbags just to spite me.  It's all contingent on what I think, eh?   Then let me unequivocally state that I think dancing the Macarena while wearing nothing but a thong in the middle of traffic is bad and wrong.  (Shall we strike up some music for you? :) )

In any case, I'm sorry I made you go all bold-face and caps-lock on me.  Now I feel bad.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Ohio, Toledo, Riots, 2005

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users