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I.V.F

Health Pregnancy IVF

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#1 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 05:04 PM

I.V.F -

I have heard of a new trend in IVF - career women who dont have time for sex, but still want kids, going straight to IVF as a *instant* pregnancy. Some of these women barely see their husbands, some are seperated for career reasons but still want the mummy status and many have given up sex altogether or *diary* it in to their schedules.

My point - IVF can be difficult and complicated. Its stupid to take up doctors time and resources just 'cos you cant find the time to make love... and if you dont have time for sex (what, 2 minutes if you're quick?) HOW THE F**K do you expect to have time for a child??
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#2 SparkyCola

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 05:34 PM

Schmokie- do you mean what do we think of IVF in general or what do we think of that specific post ^ ?

Where did you get the notion from btw? Seems very strange to me, and I agree with your criticism of it. :eh:

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#3 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 05:46 PM

Both. Mostly post specific but general opinions welcome.

The Telegraph I think. Or maybe a womens mag. It was pretty credable anyhoo.
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#4 Hawkeye

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 06:08 PM

Well in general, for women who have trouble conceiving (I think thats what IVF is generally used for, right?) then its a fine idea. However, in situations like the one you described, its a bad idea because as you pointed out, if they don;t have time to conceive, how are they going to have time to look after the child?
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#5 Rhea

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 06:40 PM

I think it sucks. OTOH, I don't believe it's anyone's business but the potential parent/s.
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#6 maryavatar

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 06:55 PM

Personally... the whole concept of IVF bugs me.  There are thousands of children in need of foster care.  If a family want a child so badly, why can't they give a home to a child that really needs one?  I understand that there's a bilogical imperative to pass on your own genes, but it just seems selfish to say 'I want a child, but only if I get to make it myself'.

Then again, I also think it's wrong to have a child then pay someone to be its primary care-giver.  If you're not prepared to take the time and effort to raise a child yourself, you shouldn't have one.
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#7 Zwolf

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 10:23 AM

I'm always more in favor of people adopting than people breeding, since there's way too many people on the planet already.  But, I'm a misanthropist, so...     In general, IVF's fine, if someone wants a kid and can't conceive the regular way.  People wanting a kid but not having time for sex, though, is pretty strange.  If they can't find time for one of the most fun things there is, I have a hard time believing they'd fit something as miserable as diaper-changing or 3 a.m. feedings into their schedule...

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#8 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 11:53 AM

Ah, you see, they wouldnt deal with diaper changes.... they would get the NANNY to do it!
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#9 Anastashia

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 04:09 PM

^^^^You do have a point there Schmokie Dragon. I'm one who is rather on the side of if you don't have time for sex how do you have time for IVF? One thing that could be a factor is that the delay many woman are taking for professional or whatever reasons in attempting to get pregnant has resulted in a statistically demonstrative incidence of it being more difficult to get pregnant through natural means. Maybe this is what these women are thinking, let's not waste that time. I for one have issues with over-reliance on artifical means though, mostly because of the custody issues that can be involved in some situations. I'm also in favor of adoption being something that should be considered before artificial means.

Edited by Anastashia, 18 November 2005 - 04:12 PM.

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#10 G1223

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 04:13 PM

The process is primarly used to help intertile women to have children.  I look at the problem used as the example and say that such a person is likely going to be a poor parent. But the law does not permit only those who are going to be good  parents the right to have children.
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#11 SparkyCola

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 04:15 PM

Some interesting points raised Ani ^

I certainly can see why some people would rather have their own children than adopt, though i certainly back adoption- let me put it this way, it's right for some people, but not for others. If you couldn't truly love a child that wasn't your own, don't adopt. Go for IVF. If you can, adopt!

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#12 G1223

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 04:18 PM

So those who could love should be forced to have to adopt rather than try a method to have children of their won.

Why not force people to adpot those children with special needs so those children can have a family.
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#13 Themis

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 04:30 PM

maryavatar, on Nov 17 2005, 11:55 PM, said:

Then again, I also think it's wrong to have a child then pay someone to be its primary care-giver.  If you're not prepared to take the time and effort to raise a child yourself, you shouldn't have one.

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Oh, I wish.  Not gonna happen.  Right now there are two women in the office with young kids - in each case, since the kids are pre-school, I think their mothers are rasing their kids.  One is pregnant with #2 right now.  She'll get the six weeks off for bonding then be back at work (and on the phone half the day with the caregiver).  I guess for those who have the maternal instinct, the desire to have a rug rat is so strong they pop them out and, in essence, send them straight to school since they only see them nights and weekends.  However, in fairness to those with the desire, it really seems impossible for most people to exist on one income any more in the US, so whether it's for a career or just a need for income, a couple would either have to forget about children or plan on the grandmother or daycare route, because the day of the stay-at-home mom is over.  And if you want a kid bad enough, I guess IVF is the way to go.  

I've heard of lesbian couples having IVF to have a kid, but a straight couple just wanting to save time, pregnancy and labor???  Ridiculous!!

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#14 Kosh

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 04:45 PM

Quote

HOW THE F**K do you expect to have time for a child??


That's the nail on the head. I don't see the point in having a child if you aren't going to raise it.








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#15 JchaosRS

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 05:16 PM

Themis said:

I've heard of lesbian couples having IVF to have a kid, but a straight couple just wanting to save time, pregnancy and labor??? Ridiculous!!
Now in vitro fertilization won't really save the mother on the actual pregnancy and labor. She'd still have to carry her child to term and deliver it.

Well, I suppose she would get a surrogate. If she doesn't have time for conceiving the child (which she could accomplish on her way to work if she was ambitious enough), then she more than likely won't have time for the pregnancy.

But in such a case, the only thing the woman would be contributing to the child's existence is her egg and the money for the nanny or daycare.  :upside:

Personally I am in complete agreement with maryavatar, there are far too many orphaned children. Although, the adoption process in the US is pretty lengthy. But even with the abundant amount of children in need  of good homes I don't feel people should be forced into adoption, they should have a choice.

Edited by Rommies Slave, 18 November 2005 - 05:18 PM.

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#16 SparkyCola

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 06:34 PM

Quote

So those who could love should be forced to have to adopt rather than try a method to have children of their own.

I didn't say that :eh: I merely defended the notion that those who can't have children should automatically adopt.

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#17 G1223

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 09:26 PM

And I am asking what right does the state have to force someone to adopt? To me that people are willing to try something to have their own children is their business.

So to people being too busy to go through the motions of trying to have kids and want to go for the IVF to be sure to have them. To me it's not selfish. Maybe they are too close to where that time to have kids will be a health risk to the mother as well as child.  So the best time to do it is now and the best way this way.

Can anyone say with 100% certainty that these parents are going to be worthless. Would I want to do this? If I was married and my spouse was under stress to have a child and this was only way for her to have it then I would do it. Why? Because my wife wanted the child and she was losing sleep was going under the other effects of stress and while having a child is nothing but stress. She will also have moments of happiness and that is a reason to do it.

Yes if the process was not working I would point out the option of adoption but I would be pissed off if in trying to have a child we were bombarded with'You should try adoption' comments.  Let people come around to the idea on their own.
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#18 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 11:30 AM

I agree with Sparky that those who cant have their own kids should seriously consider adoption before resorting to complicated medical means. But as she said, its not for everyone. For some the urge to continue their line is very strong, and for others the idea of not being able to look at the kid and say "hes got his daddys eyes" is almost heartbreaking. But there are kids out there who will have no future unless someone gives them a home - all we are saying is think about adoption.

The idea that an individual could be so busy that she could not put 10mins a night aside for lovemaking and conception is mad. No-one is that busy, and anyone who is will not have the time to be there for their kids. Nannies are not the answer. I'm not saying that the kids will be dysfunctional or anything, just that wanting to be "a mummy" isnt a good enough reason to have a kid. You need to have the time and patence to actualy be "a mummy" when the child arrives, not just this distant and glamourous figure who says goodnight twice a week and gives fabulous presents. I think that it selfish. The urge to have the child is entirely for the benifit of "mummy" status.

Before I get assulted ;) I fully appreciate that the whole desire to have children at all is selfish. Few people say they want kids for the kids benifit.... I am simply saying that some motivations are more selfish than others.

And yes, what people do behind closed doors is their own business. However, that doesnt make it desireable or right. A man who has sex with a dead chicken does so behind closed doors. The chicken is not affected and athe man is fine. Does that make it desireable? Does that make it right? Most people would probably say no. Another extreme example, however, it sorta proves my point.

We are not saying that people who cant concieve, or for whom conception would be dangerous or problematic, or for whom normal methods will not work, shouldnt go for IVF, just that people who can but simply cant be bothered with the hassle of actualy having sex.... (shock horror!) arent really deserving of mummy status.

In this day and age women want a good, succesful career and kids. Unfortunately, you cant do this without the assistance of a nanny of sorts. I dont mind so much a good family friend or relative performing that function, but I think paying a stranger to look after your kids 24/7 while you sit at the office or go to wonderful dinner parties is silly.
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