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US ONLY Death Penalty Poll

Crime Punishment Death Penalty Poll of EI'ers

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85 replies to this topic

Poll: Do you agree with the death penalty? (68 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you agree with the death penalty?

  1. Yes. (35 votes [51.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.47%

  2. No. (18 votes [26.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.47%

  3. I am definitively ambivalent (3 votes [4.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.41%

  4. I can't decide one way or the other (2 votes [2.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

  5. Yes but not the way we do it (7 votes [10.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.29%

  6. I feel totally impassive (1 votes [1.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.47%

  7. Eh? I don't understand... (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Other (2 votes [2.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

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#41 QueenTiye

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 02:48 AM

G1223, on Dec 4 2005, 12:00 AM, said:

How does a victim of fruad who lost all savings and is a senior citizen going to recover?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The state could help said senior.  So could that senior's family.  And the louse who frauded said senior could be forced, besides jail, to turn over his/her assets to those he frauded - and work in prison to recoup those debts to her/his victims.

QT

#42 G1223

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 11:10 AM

Yes the state should be required to give Mr. Con a comfortable jailcell. He will get a exercise yard and equipment to build up his body. Then we can give him Cable TV and he can enjoy that TV with three square meals a day. He will get professional help to deal with his grief about a mommy who did not understand him. While getting a college degree.

Meanwhile his victim will get nothing. Their family might have a body to bury.  Oh joy there. Maybe they get to hear news stories about how we need to see to the civil rights of prisoners and how they deserve even more money spent on them.

So who is the winner. The victim who gets nothing or the criminal who gets a life which while not free to go where they want is very much a life filled with oppertunities. Heck and his freedom is only a escape away. So faced with life in prison what is he going to lose. Privilages. Hell he can get the ACLU fighting to give him back those privilages so he does not have to really worry about them being taken forever.

So bluntly that is a reason why you put first degree murderers to death. Then we come to another reason.

We have a father strangled his pregant wife and cut the baby from her belly to make sure that baby was dead as well. We have the father of three who is murdered because he could ID the robbers of the 7-11 and was therefore a problem. We have the man who sets off a bomb and levels a federal building and kills the children who were in the day care center for those workers in the building.

So explain why is the life of these killers more important or somehow worthy of protection rather than their victims?
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#43 Shalamar

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 11:37 AM

Quote

So explain why is the life of these killers more important or somehow worthy of protection rather than their victims?

agreed
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#44 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 11:42 AM

I was pretty indifferent on this subject until I saw "The Life of David Gale"  

I think no matter what: We Could be Wrong.

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#45 Nikcara

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 12:20 PM

I don't believe that the people who commit crimes are more worthy of life/liberty and all the rest of their victims.  That's why they're put in jail.  And frankly, homes for the criminally insane aren't nice places to get stuck in, either.

Just because I don't believe in killing them doesn't mean I think they don't deserve punishment.  I also don't believe in treating them like vermin.  So yes, I believe they ought to be provided with adequate food, clothing, and medical attention - and medical attention sometimes means being forced to realize that maybe they committed violent crimes due to biological problems.  If those problems can be treated, then do so.  If not, then keep those people away from normal society.  For people who are simply sadists, then you really ought to keep them away from the rest of society.  Besidse, as has already been noted, its cheaper to keep someone in jail for life than it is to put them to death.

I refuse to fixate my sense of justice purely in revenge, which is what I see the death penalty as.
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#46 Themis

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 01:08 PM

If it's wrong to kill, it's wrong to kill.  And somebody has to pull the lever, inject the needle, etc.

If there is photographic evidence if a murder, I might be pursuaded in individual cases.  Otherwise, we could indeed be wrong.

I do believe jail time is a little too cushy for a lot crimes.  There are instances where I'd support cruel and unusual punishment... :devil:

There are no easy answers but death is final.

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#47 JchaosRS

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 02:46 PM

G1223, you seem to think that prison is a virtual paradise. It isn't. You'll understand if you have actually been locked up for a while. And I am not even going to comment on the atrocious living conditions of criminal mental health facilities. *shivers*

Although, I DO think that we should bring back public flogging- and not just for violent crimes but also for other crimes like vandalism and identity theft.
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#48 G1223

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:04 PM

Compared to the homeless and non-working poor Prison has a lot to say for it. I am not saying it's Club Med but why the preservation of a murderer's life somehow more important that taking care of those who need saving?
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#49 Godeskian

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:07 PM

Themis, on Dec 4 2005, 07:08 PM, said:

I do believe jail time is a little too cushy for a lot crimes.  There are instances where I'd support cruel and unusual punishment... :devil:

I have always supported hard labour for criminals, and very basic amenities. These people have to pay for their crimes. I'm not sure their life is adequate payment.

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#50 G1223

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:20 PM

Aaaahh The joy of the ACLU working hard to make sure that out of the public's pocket we get to pay for all those wonderful amendies and the state that should not put them to death is forced to deal with thousands of lawsuits and putting them in a bare cell could damage their more important than their victims civil right.
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And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
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When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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#51 JchaosRS

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:34 PM

You are aware that executing prisoners is MORE costly to the state than keeping them in prison for life right?
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#52 waterpanther

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:35 PM

Quote

Yes the state should be required to give Mr. Con a comfortable jailcell. He will get a exercise yard and equipment to build up his body. Then we can give him Cable TV and he can enjoy that TV with three square meals a day. He will get professional help to deal with his grief about a mommy who did not understand him. While getting a college degree.

Meanwhile his victim will get nothing. Their family might have a body to bury. Oh joy there. Maybe they get to hear news stories about how we need to see to the civil rights of prisoners and how they deserve even more money spent on them
.


May I suggest that anyone who subscribes to the myth of the "comfortable  jail cell" spend August in one?  In Texas, with the temperature hitting 108 and no airconditioning?  No shade in the bare gravel (or rooftop) exercise yard for his hour a day out in the heat that's only slightly worse than inside?  Sass the guard and the fan his family sent him will be confiscated. Yeppers, that's the lap of luxury, all right.  

After a day of stamping out license plates or sewing guard uniforms, literally under sweatshop conditions, the prisoner can have an hour a day of TV--chosen by the prison staff; all his reading matter will be monitored and limited to a certain number of books or magazines a month; his mail will all be read, going and coming; any education he gets while in will be paid for by himself, his family, or someone who's taken an interest in his case.  It's not subsidized by the state, and it isn't free.  Any takers?  Get your reservations in early, gents.  

Meantime, it's not true that the victim gets nothing.  If the criminal can pay restitution, he's usually required to do so as part of his sentence.  If he can't, there are state and federal funds for victim compensation, victim counseling, victim education, transitional housing, resettlement and a number of other services.  

I know they get in the way when you're working up a good old fashioned "criminal-coddling liberals" rant, but the facts really do matter.
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#53 Themis

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 06:43 PM

Besides, where is the "punishment" in death?  When it's over, it's over.  Pretty painlessly if by lethal injection; less pain than if the person lived and contracted cancer, for instance.  No restitution, no daily degradation of being in a cell with an exposed toilet and someone watching your every move, no need to ever think about what they've done.  Nope, I want punishment, not an easy out.  And if they're later proved innocent, they're still here to benefit.  If they're not, perhaps they've done some useful work in the process.  And there's always the possibility of rehap.  Yeah, slim, but it can happen.

So, G, if you're ever arrested and sentenced on circumstantial evidence, you want the chair?

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#54 rponiarski

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 01:26 PM

I voted no because death is final and I don't have the hubris to say who should live and who should die. I just love the audacity of the "pro-life" people also being pro death penalty. Bit of a contradiction, isn't it... :crazy:
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#55 BklnScott

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 01:43 PM

^^^Excellent point.

Quote

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#56 QueenTiye

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 01:58 PM

G1223 I can't think of anything that annoys me more with your posts than the tendency of your posts to simply gloss over what someone else said, while pretending to address them.  Here's the original exchange:

QueenTiye, on Dec 4 2005, 02:48 AM, said:

G1223, on Dec 4 2005, 12:00 AM, said:

How does a victim of fruad who lost all savings and is a senior citizen going to recover?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The state could help said senior.  So could that senior's family.  And the louse who frauded said senior could be forced, besides jail, to turn over his/her assets to those he frauded - and work in prison to recoup those debts to her/his victims.

QT

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Your response?

G1223, on Dec 4 2005, 11:10 AM, said:

Yes the state should be required to give Mr. Con a comfortable jailcell. He will get a exercise yard and equipment to build up his body. Then we can give him Cable TV and he can enjoy that TV with three square meals a day. He will get professional help to deal with his grief about a mommy who did not understand him. While getting a college degree.

This is rather immaterial to my original point, and a complete non-sequitor to the above exchange.  

But if you want to know what I think about rehabilitation of prisoners - I'm in favor of it.  I would VERY much like to know that when a person fulfills their time in prison we are turning out a better person than the one we took in.  I don't think that all criminals are equal - I think some are worse than others. We were talking about frauders.  Frauders may be completely corrupted souls - who have a possibility of changing their attitudes and behavior.  And - I'll bold this part for clarity's sake:
And the louse who frauded said senior could be forced, besides jail, to turn over his/her assets to those he frauded - and work in prison to recoup those debts to her/his victims.

Quote

Meanwhile his victim will get nothing. Their family might have a body to bury.  Oh joy there. Maybe they get to hear news stories about how we need to see to the civil rights of prisoners and how they deserve even more money spent on them.

And the louse who frauded said senior could be forced, besides jail, to turn over his/her assets to those he frauded - and work in prison to recoup those debts to her/his victims.

Quote

So who is the winner. The victim who gets nothing or the criminal who gets a life which while not free to go where they want is very much a life filled with oppertunities. Heck and his freedom is only a escape away. So faced with life in prison what is he going to lose. Privilages. Hell he can get the ACLU fighting to give him back those privilages so he does not have to really worry about them being taken forever.

So bluntly that is a reason why you put first degree murderers to death. Then we come to another reason.

I'll have to assume here that you aren't talking to me.  I've already stated that I'd favor the death penalty for murderers and some others, if we could prove the crime.

QT

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#57 eryn

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 02:05 PM

rponiarski, on Dec 5 2005, 11:26 AM, said:

I voted no because death is final and I don't have the hubris to say who should live and who should die. I just love the audacity of the "pro-life" people also being pro death penalty. Bit of a contradiction, isn't it... :crazy:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Itís not really contradictory if you think about it. People who are on death row are there for a reason, they commited a heinous crime whereas a fetus is an innocent being that has done nothing wrong.

Thatís my take on it anyway.
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#58 Rhea

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 02:15 PM

Shalamar, on Dec 4 2005, 08:37 AM, said:

Quote

So explain why is the life of these killers more important or somehow worthy of protection rather than their victims?

agreed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think of this every time somebody trumpets keeping Tookie Strong from being executed. What about the families of the people he murdered? What about the thousands of victims of the murderous Crips, which he helped found?

I wish they'd commute his sentence to life so he can fade into the obscurity he so richly deserves.

Edited by Rhea, 05 December 2005 - 02:16 PM.

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#59 rponiarski

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 06:13 PM

eryn, on Dec 5 2005, 03:05 PM, said:

Itís not really contradictory if you think about it. People who are on death row are there for a reason, they commited a heinous crime whereas a fetus is an innocent being that has done nothing wrong.

Thatís my take on it anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I really do not want to get into an abortion debate; that can get real heated. However, both are the taking of a life, something that is "sacred" to the "pro-life" people. But whose life? The prisoner on death row is someone's son/daughter. Why is their life worth less than a fetus, or more? I don't pretend to know the answer to that one and I won't even try...
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#60 Mandi

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 02:21 AM

I voted yes, you kill someone, we kill you back!
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