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Harrassment on the school bus

Missouri School Bus Harassment St. Louis 6-yr. old girl

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#21 EChatty

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 07:23 AM

The reason she had to be rushed to the hospital was because she suffered an asthma attack after the peanut butter was smeared on her face, just being around peanuts/peanut butter is enough to set her off. Like I said, my aunt almost died from an asthma attack after she had been informed of her fiance's dying when I was little.

Asthma is nothing to mess with, it will kill you.


#22 Natolii

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 08:51 AM

I had a friend that carried an Epinephrine Pen on him at all times because he was that sensitive.

I would joke that he is much safer working as a EMT/Firefighter than working as a Pastry Chef... Sad part is, it is no joke.

It is not Asthma... It is call Anaphyletic Shock and it Does Kill... Worse case scenrios it causes Cardiac Arrest.

Look at the 15 year old girl that died last month after kissing her boyfriend who had eaten peanut butter.

Edited by Natolii, 20 December 2005 - 08:56 AM.

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#23 Enkanowen

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 10:13 AM

Two days in the hospital from anaphyletic shock is seriously injured.

I was just under 6 feet in highschool (now I am almost 6'1") and wore a lot of heavy boots and mostly black so I wasn't as ridiculed because mostly people were scared I would beat them up. In the bus I preferred to sit alone, but somehow I ended up making friends with a bunch of people in my area, mostly just bus friends as we all had our own group in highschool. Also, I must say I was bullied more in school when i was in germany than here in canada. So maybe it has to do with that too.

I've been thinking...whatever we are doing to peanuts that is making people so allergic has to stop. I've never been allergic to anything until I moved to North America. Peanuts don't kill me but they make me very ill and rash all over the face, inside of the mouth and so on.

#24 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 10:41 AM

I don't think we are doing anything to the peanuts that is making people allergic - I think they are a natural allergy.  But I'll smack a peanut the next time I see one for ya?

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#25 tennyson

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 10:48 AM

"We" aren't "doing" anything to peanuts. Peanuts have always had the same composition, domestication didn't change that. What has happened is the peanut has been transported around to world and planted in areas where people never knew peanuts before. You can't provoke a histimine response with something that isn't there and until relatively recently there were no peanuts in Europe or Australia or a whole lot of the rest of the world. So people with preexisting conditions never ran across them and would have probably died as children anyway since the infant mortality was so high. But within the last century of so thanks to a combination of better medical treatment and sanitary conditions people with previosly life threatening conditions can survive beyond childhood since there isn't as much selection pressure against whatever was killing them. So that combined with the adoption of the peanut as a world food crop  means the chance of someone with an allergy to them running into a peanut product has increased.
It's a similar thing with latex as well. Once the rubber tree became a major world crop the chances of people with allergic reactions to it running across it went up enormously.
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#26 Enkephalen

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 09:50 PM

Rommies Slave, on Dec 19 2005, 09:37 PM, said:

Fast forward several years later, the school district has required that video cameras be present on all of the buses and if anything happens the students receive a referral. There is rarely any incident on the buses as a result; most of the problems are kids throwing stuff out of the windows. I have a few friends that drive buses and they tell me that the high school kids are the worst. Iím not really sure why.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I remember when Digitalman used to post at EI, and he would talk about driving a school bus and having to deal with similar experiences.  I miss Digitalman's posts. :(
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#27 tennyson

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 11:08 PM

You have a double post, do you want me to do something about that? Post taken care of.

Edited by tennyson, 21 December 2005 - 12:29 AM.

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#28 Enkanowen

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 11:25 PM

tennyson, on Dec 20 2005, 11:48 AM, said:

"We" aren't "doing" anything to peanuts. Peanuts have always had the same composition, domestication didn't change that. What has happened is the peanut has been transported around to world and planted in areas where people never knew peanuts before. You can't provoke a histimine response with something that isn't there and until relatively recently there were no peanuts in Europe or Australia or a whole lot of the rest of the world. So people with preexisting conditions never ran across them and would have probably died as children anyway since the infant mortality was so high. But within the last century of so thanks to a combination of better medical treatment and sanitary conditions people with previosly life threatening conditions can survive beyond childhood since there isn't as much selection pressure against whatever was killing them. So that combined with the adoption of the peanut as a world food crop  means the chance of someone with an allergy to them running into a peanut product has increased.
It's a similar thing with latex as well. Once the rubber tree became a major world crop the chances of people with allergic reactions to it running across it went up enormously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


not to take this thread too much off topic, but I ate peanuts and peanut butter just fine in Europe. Our peanuts come from Northern Africa. There are many things done to peanuts and other foods: insecticide, fertilizers, genetic modification and so fourth...

#29 Enkephalen

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 12:17 AM

Now that is odd.  I had no idea it was a double post.  Yes, please remove the extra post Tennyson.  I wondered why it took so long to post in the first place.  And just now, I noticed that I tried doing a Fast Reply and it totally disappeared.

Edited by Enkephalen, 21 December 2005 - 12:17 AM.

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#30 Enkephalen

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 12:30 AM

Thank you Tennyson!
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#31 tennyson

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 12:42 AM

Quote

not to take this thread too much off topic, but I ate peanuts and peanut butter just fine in Europe. Our peanuts come from Northern Africa. There are many things done to peanuts and other foods: insecticide, fertilizers, genetic modification and so fourth...
Only one of which has anything to do with the chemicals in peanuts that cause allergies. People aren't allergic to fertilizer it is nothing less than the nitrates we need anyway and could be found in the air we breath and in the soil we walked on before humanity started domesticating crops more than ten thousand years ago, it is simply manure or in a purer form that lacks the bacteria of the original taken directly from the air nitrates. As far as I know no genetically-engineered peanut has ever been released for commercial use anywhere, but I am free to be proven wrong by evidence to the contrary. That leaves insecticides and without knowing how the international peanut trade flows from country to country I can't say wether peanuts in the US are drawn from similar sources as Europe or not. Some is domestically grown but not all. But those African nuts would have had just as much if not more pesticides on them than ones grown in the US, although they might be different pesticides. So it could be that but you wouldn't expect it to get past the shells, more of a quality control with peanut butter issue. It couldn't be preservatives because they aren't used in the nut itself and you said you ate those as well in the US.
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#32 QueenTiye

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 12:50 AM

Known allergens sometimes cause allergies in people who didn't have them before.  That isn't uncommon, actually.  People who are allergic tend to develop new allergies, and people can BECOME allergic as they grow older.  Histamine response is a learned one, I believe - but this might be a good question for EtU?

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#33 tennyson

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 01:25 AM

and you could expect the level of the allergen to vary from crop to crop since it is the chemical created by the peanut itself that is the issue in the histimine response and not something else added to the peanut. Something as simple as differing levels of sunlight or differing irrigation practices might cause its level to vary although I'm not sure if it would be a statisically significant variation. This is an Orpheus question if thier ever was one.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#34 Orpheus

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 01:54 AM

I can't go through all the details right now, but it is generally felt that the increase in peanut allergies is partly due to the increase in early childhood exposures (esp. peanut butter before age 3). The allergic epitopes are believed to be peanut proteins, but the oils may play a role, too. Nuts are generally more allergenic than most foods, but safe for most people.

Like many allergies (e.g. beestings), peanut  allergy can escalate rapidly on repeat exposures, so a person who has had a few mild to moderate reactions may have a sudden fatal anaphylaxis ontheir next exposure. Peanut allergies are probably the single leading cause of fatal anaphylaxis in the US today.

IIRC, there was a decent review in the New England Journal of Medicine in  April/May 2002, but since the NEJM's web reprints are subscription-only, I'll have to try and write a summary tomorrow.

The good news is that studies in 2004 showed that ordinary cleansers do a fine job of removing the allergenic residues, and that incidental airborne or food-prep surface exposures are quite minimal in the school environment. Sadly, the lunchroom itself is a high rish environment, due to the presence of other kids and their PBJs. You wouldn't think that anything could be more dangerous than the school's mystery meat, but there you go.

#35 Cheile

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 03:26 PM

Rommies Slave, on Dec 19 2005, 02:02 PM, said:

Rhiannonjk, on Dec 19 2005, 07:30 AM, said:

The school bus is an evil, dangerous, scary place.† The fact that a kid would do this is horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats a bit extreame isn't it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


sorry but i'm with Rhiannon.  most bus drivers are too busy to notice anything until the situation gets way out of hand and then if anyone gets punished/hurt it's the victim.

when i was in second grade, i had a stupid @$%@# of a bus driver who gave me a bus ticket for yelling at kids trying to take my jacket away--in December.  i was told by this moron that i should have "ignored them".  :sarcasm:

whether or not i have kids, i will always agree with instituting no tolerance rules at schools for bullying.  this would include school buses.  i get really tired of the "it's part of childhood" crap.  it should not be.

Edited by Cheile, 21 December 2005 - 03:34 PM.

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#36 EChatty

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 03:53 PM

I agree with Cheile, bullying is not part of growing up, it's mean and vicious. I wish schools would have a no tolerance of bullying some day.

I was bullied to an extent all through school, not as much as some but I normally kept to myself because of it, then and still do now, out of habit mostly but also because I like my own company most of the time to the company of other people.


#37 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 09:50 PM

Not that I'm objecting, but I find it amusing to see that as we have evolved, grown larger brains etc, we see to be running very fast in the opposite direction to those qualities that made us dominant.... we used brute force, cunning and forced selection (killing off the weak) to get here, and now we are refusing to associate with those qualities.

Bullying IS a part of growing up. Thats a fact. Its not a part we like and its a part that everyone with an ounce of sense and compassion is striving to remove. But kids are mean. Thats how the *best* grow big and strong and eliminate weak competition.

But hey, I'm not objecting to trying to stamp it out. We dont need it to survive anymore and, having been bullied, I know how much it sucks.

I didnt realise the girl had a full on attack. I guess I didnt really think about the biology of it.... *remembers her first aid course* oh yeah!
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#38 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 08:38 AM

sure, we all have rights of passage or whatever - but to let a situation, like the basically unsupervised kids on a school bus, continue when there are possible solutions, pains me.  A driver should not have that much responsibility.  The bus driver should have to think about the road, and there should be another adult who can keep an eye on the children.  

I don't see it as the same as being bullied on the playground.  Most often, you aren't even allowed to change seats on a school bus, so you are trapped near whomever might need to bully you.  At least on a playground you could run away in most situations...

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#39 Rhea

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 01:52 PM

Rommies Slave, on Dec 19 2005, 10:02 AM, said:

Rhiannonjk, on Dec 19 2005, 07:30 AM, said:

The school bus is an evil, dangerous, scary place.† The fact that a kid would do this is horrible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats a bit extreame isn't it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Not so much...as a kid I was so quiet people forgot I was there a lot of the time. But I've seen weaker, helpless kids - especially the geeks and the fat kids - get mercifully harassed day after day after day. The harassers think they're hot sh*t and their victims don't usually tell their parents because snitching is uncool. Riding the bus can be a nightmare if you're one of the targets of harassment. And the older they get the more creative they get.

Having been on the receiving end of harassment in Hawaii because I was the only haole (white kid) in my class for three years running (and the first year, third grade, was pure hell), I've always been very conscious of how hurtful these actions can be.

In my day nobody bothered to interfere unless bloodshed was involved. And I'd be willing to be it's not so different today.
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#40 EChatty

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 02:31 PM

Yeah, all bullies think they're hot stuff until someone bigger comes along-it's a never-ending circle.



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