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Mine Accident

West Virginia Mine Accident 2006.Sago MIne

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#21 Tricia

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 08:49 AM

Went to bed right after that joyous news of survivors last night and woke to this horrible news of all dead but one.

Prayers and well wishes go out to the families of those who died and only wish that people would be more cautious about spreading good news before they are sure of it.  That old thing one of my teachers was fond of saying about what happens when you "assume" something.  He forgot to add the part about breaking someone's heart and spirit also.

AS much as I feel for those who lost a loved one....I feel sorry even more for the survivor.  At this moment in time his fellow miners families are probably happy for him and his family...

But often in cases like this, that happiness turns to resentment, spoken and unspoken.

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#22 Kosh

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 10:02 AM

What a night. I wasn't wacthing the news late, so I missed it till this morning, but there is a woman here at work who watched the whole thing unfold. She's very down this morning.


If there are any recriminations, It will be on the mine owner who found out after twenty minutes that there weren't 12 survivors. He said that he wanted to know more before speaking to the families, but he let them believe that all was well for 2.5 hours.
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#23 BklnScott

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 10:11 AM

^^^Yeah, what kind of a person does that?  He said, "Who do you tell not to celebrate?"  MORON!  You tell ALL of them not to celebrate!  Immediately!

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#24 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 10:13 AM

That is just heartbreaking.  I only saw the final news this morning - the fact that they toyed with the families emotions like that.  

How can you be mistaken in the status of life or death of 11 people?  How do you make that mistake?

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#25 Cyncie

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 10:28 AM

I just don't know what to say. I celebrated with them last night when they thought their loved ones were alive, and I'm mourning with them this morning, now that they know otherwise. My prayers go out to them, and the community.

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#26 kdalton_69

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 10:51 AM

View PostChakoteya, on Jan 4 2006, 10:36 AM, said:

It sounds like there was a terrible misunderstanding - the rescuers found twelve, but only one was still alive.

My sympathies to the community. This must have torn the heart out of the whole town.

Try the whole state.  

I grew up in a coal mining town in southern West Virginia.  Most people here did, or lived near one.   My father was a coal miner until 2000, when he was forced to retire due to illness.  His last mine was in Alabama -- the same one that's being quoted in the AP stories as the last major mining disaster in this country.  He retired a few months before it blew up, and when it did a lot of his good friends died there.

These were good people trying to make a living for their families -- apparently working at a shoddily run mine.   This company is nothing but a parasite.

#27 Kosh

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 12:11 PM

View PostRhiannonjk, on Jan 4 2006, 10:13 AM, said:

That is just heartbreaking.  I only saw the final news this morning - the fact that they toyed with the families emotions like that.  

How can you be mistaken in the status of life or death of 11 people?  How do you make that mistake?


The Rescue folks were still wearing masks and full suits when they got into contact with the surface. Everyone in the room thought they heard the same thing, that all 12 survived. It was a garbled communication. Somehow, the guys underground figured out what was happening on the surface, and talked to the command center again, after about 20 minutes, telling them what was really going on. The mine boss waited 2 1/2 more hours before telling the families the truth. I can understand him wanting to know for sure before talking to the families, but he waited way to long. They were all in the church celibrating, and waiting for the miners to join them.


I don't see how the guy that lived made it
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#28 tennyson

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 02:56 PM

A person isn't lying if they report what they believe is the truth at the time. If someone says you are to be somewhere at 4pm and you hear and report 5 pm what you said isn't right but you aren't lying.
Frankly I was more disgusted over the media frenzy that went off on all channels, constantly asking for information and updates when they were trying to get the job done and save those people. It was a rescue operation and they aren't going to know everything immediately just due to the nature of the work and I got really tired of seeing them ask the same questions that the mine spokesperson wasn't able to answer due to lack of information the first few times again and again.


and on some trivial but annoying points:
To FOX News
It's West Virginia University not University of West Virginia and Morgantown is in West Virginia not Virginia.
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#29 Tricia

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:26 PM

View Posttennyson, on Jan 4 2006, 07:56 PM, said:

A person isn't lying if they report what they believe is the truth at the time. If someone says you are to be somewhere at 4pm and you hear and report 5 pm what you said isn't right but you aren't lying.
Frankly I was more disgusted over the media frenzy that went off on all channels, constantly asking for information and updates when they were trying to get the job done and save those people. It was a rescue operation and they aren't going to know everything immediately just due to the nature of the work and I got really tired of seeing them ask the same questions that the mine spokesperson wasn't able to answer due to lack of information the first few times again and again.


Very true

I just wish that someone had gone to the families and told them that they weren't sure of the true info earlier than they did.  Wanting to make sure of your facts is one thing but leaving people believing that they had received a miracle for so long was not right.  

One newsperson said the only thing worse than false hope was no hope tho.  All I can hope for is that those who died did not suffer overly much and maybe had a chance to leave some message, oral or written for their loved ones....




But as to the media asking the same questions over and over when there is no new info....that is very common in all events whether it is the shuttle explosion or the events of 9/11 or any of a hundred other major news events.  

The first time I remember this happening was when Reagan was shot years ago and they spent the rest of the day rehashing the events and asking questions and speculating on the events.

IMHO.....Media frenzy is the one of the main reasons there are so many people with anxiety these days.  That's just my opinion tho.  I have learned that i can not watch the news coverage of any event  for more than 30 minutes at a time or I start feeling like I am having an anxiety attack

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#30 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:17 PM

I woke up to Mel tellin' me this sad news this mornin'.  Hell of a thing to wake up to.  I feel just awful--sick, mind ya--for the families who thought their loved ones were alive.  I know miscom's happen and it usually results in the worst things possible.  But, the fact it took 2.5 hrs for the news to follow up after the control ctr learned the truth is inconceivable.  Waiting some time to learn the truth and make sure it is fact is one thing; 2.5 hrs is another.  Those folks deserved better, if ya ask me.


And tennyson:
I know how ya feel abt somethin' like this:

Quote

and on some trivial but annoying points:
To FOX News
It's West Virginia University not University of West Virginia and Morgantown is in West Virginia not Virginia.

I refused to watch CNN's coverage of Katrina 'cause Lou Dobbs (and the vast majority of their reporters, it seemed) thought it was "Bi-lOx-ee" when it's pronounced "Bi-lUx-ee."  :grr:

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

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#31 tennyson

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 07:06 PM

Thanks Lost Cuase.
I was showing this as an example of a media trend I find disturbing with the spread of 24 hour news services, which is story staturation.   Wether its a major trajedy or a personal one you have this constant coverage where it becomes more about the coverage than the event. The news outlets keep asking the same questions they asked before again and again, not seemingly to realize that to do any complicated task like finding a lost child, locate a murder suspect or rescue someone takes time to do and the people in charge of it will not have all the information immediately nor is it possible for them to do this. But as soon as you admit weakness to the media circus they pounce like you aren't doing your job. It seems to me like it is getting to the point where needed rescources are being shunted into dealing with the media and how something looks that could and should be put on the real job. For every detective who has to give a press conference or every search leader who has to speak to the media that is one less person or less time that they have to actually solve the problem. It is an impossible standard to hold people to to have completely accurate and fully realized information about a crisis situation immediately. There are always gaps in our knowledge of any situation and that they exist doesn't mean the people in charge of he operation have done anything wrong or haven't used thier rescources in the best way possible. It just means that these things take time to do.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#32 emsparks

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 07:32 PM

View PostLost Cause, on Jan 4 2006, 06:17 PM, said:

...
I refused to watch CNN's coverage of Katrina 'cause Lou Dobbs (and the vast majority of their reporters, it seemed) thought it was "Bi-lOx-ee" when it's pronounced "Bi-lUx-ee."  :grr:

Look I only watch CNN cause I canít find any one better. Except for agenda FOX and CNN are about on par. However CNN does at least try to address errors, including pronunciation.

Report CNN Errors here. :whistle:

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As to the subject of the thread, I real feel for the Families.
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#33 Nonny

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 07:57 PM

View Postkdalton_69, on Jan 4 2006, 07:51 AM, said:

These were good people trying to make a living for their families -- apparently working at a shoddily run mine.   This company is nothing but a parasite.
One of the men planned to retire this year, another had gastric bypass surgery to lose weight so he could go back to work in the mine.  I heard this on NPR.  Another was to be married on Valentine's Day, another worked at the mine so he could be home in the evenings to take care of his daughters while his wife went to grad school.  Twelve good men, lost to their loved ones.  :(

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Remembrances
The Men of the Sago Mine
All Things Considered, January 4, 2006 ∑ The 12 miners who did not survive the disaster at Sago Mine were fathers, sons and husbands. Some had been in the business their whole adult lives and were close to retirement. Others were in their 20s. We hear the names of those who lost their lives and some of what we know about them.
A mother who had already lost a son in an industrial accident said, "Life goes on, you cope with it."  I'm so sorry that she and the others have to cope with this.  :(  :(  

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#34 Themis

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 09:31 PM

I was watching Leno when the "12 found alive" banner went on the screen so I switched over to CNN and MSNBC (whatever my remote could find in the dark of the bedroom!).  A female reporter on one or the other shoved a mike into a relative's face to ask him what he felt about the news, then did it again to ask him what he "really" felt... not accepting "good" or "great" or whatever...guess she wanted more interesting quotes.  I'd give a lot to see that same reporter in action after the real news surfaced... This whole live coverage thing gets ridiculous with the reporters becoming talking heads and getting non-interviews trying to fill air time.  But this lady was particularly obnoxious and I wanted to shoot her through the screen....

A tragedy made worse by the speed of communication of inaccurate and over-hyped "information."  And the possibility of it teaching any of the reporters a lesson?  Zero.

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#35 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 11:25 PM

View Postemsparks, on Jan 4 2006, 06:32 PM, said:

Look I only watch CNN cause I can't find any one better. Except for agenda FOX and CNN are about on par. However CNN does at least try to address errors, including pronunciation.

Thanks, em.  

I know it may not mean much, but it just irritated me somethin' awful.  



View Posttennyson, on Jan 4 2006, 06:06 PM, said:

Thanks Lost Cuase.
I was showing this as an example of a media trend I find disturbing with the spread of 24 hour news services, which is story staturation. Wether its a major trajedy or a personal one you have this constant coverage where it becomes more about the coverage than the event. The news outlets keep asking the same questions they asked before again and again, not seemingly to realize that to do any complicated task like finding a lost child, locate a murder suspect or rescue someone takes time to do and the people in charge of it will not have all the information immediately nor is it possible for them to do this. But as soon as you admit weakness to the media circus they pounce like you aren't doing your job. It seems to me like it is getting to the point where needed rescources are being shunted into dealing with the media and how something looks that could and should be put on the real job. For every detective who has to give a press conference or every search leader who has to speak to the media that is one less person or less time that they have to actually solve the problem. It is an impossible standard to hold people to to have completely accurate and fully realized information about a crisis situation immediately. There are always gaps in our knowledge of any situation and that they exist doesn't mean the people in charge of he operation have done anything wrong or haven't used thier rescources in the best way possible. It just means that these things take time to do.


I think alotta this had its birth durin' Op: Desert Storm.  I remember, as a 12 y/o, watchin' live footage of the air raids on Baghdad, the green night vision camera lense and the lit up tracers criss-crossin' the screen.  Needless to say, I was impressed.  I think what happened here, with the constant up to date news on the war in a "you are there" fashion, became kinda like a drug to the American populace.  Then in 1995, with the O.J. Simpson trial, the American populace was again treated to a "you are there" feel that further hooked 'em.  

Now, with the constant updates and quick jumps to "on the scene" reporters, we're bein' fed a steady dose and diet of "you are there" reportin' that continues the "addiction."  Only problem is now that we have the steady stream of info, the first of which usually (not always) tends to be false and misleadin', and the media outlets are tryin' hard to compete among themselves as to who's gonna be the best "dealer" in this race to the scoop.  That's irresponsible on the part of 24 hr news outlets.  They should be strivin' to provide the best accurate information and not be the first to provide anything.

Can you imagine the bombin' of Pearl Harbor, or the Union defeat at Manassas, in our new 24 hr media world?  The casualties at Pearl would've topped 10,000 (sound familiar? can you say first estimates of WTC in '01?) or the defeat at Manassas would've been made to be more of a rout than it was and the city of D.C. would've emptied instead.

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." -- John Wayne


Sometimes the best causes worth fighting for are lost causes. -- Me.

Formerly Known as "Lost Cause."


#36 G1223

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 03:41 AM

LC think of the modern Media at D-Day. Or Guadicanal. We would have surrendered rather than let a single soldier be injured let alone killed.
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#37 Spectacles

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 07:55 AM

What I don't understand is why on earth the families were allowed to think that there were twelve survivors long after the officials knew that the information was wrong and the families had been misinformed.

This mine is probably going to be sued out of existence for a number of reasons, from safety violations to the bungling of communication to the families.
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#38 Tricia

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 09:32 AM

I have to wonder at the series of events that were involved in this 'miscommunication'

At the press conference yesterday they tried to trace the chain of events involved and the spokesman said that  they called the church and told someone that there may have been a misunderstanding over whether anyone or rather how many survived....

So was that the truth and someone at the church then did not understand or correct the situation?  Or are the spokesman and thus the company and agencies involved passing the blame along so they don't look quite so bad?  


The Governor of West Virginia was on this GMA this morning and it sounded like he, when given the miraculous news of all surviving, wondered if it was confirmed and if so why his office was out of the loop....again truth or playing the 'don't blame me game'?

It's hard to tell and the situation was chaotic or perhaps the phrase is organized chaos?

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#39 Eskaminzim

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 10:26 AM

From what I've been hearing, the families (understandibly) are a bit confused on a couple of things--at least as far as confirming information goes.  Several families stated that mine company representatives were the ones who came to the church and told them that the men were alive and that they were going to bring them by the church when they got them out.

When I heard about that at first, I was like "that's screwed up.  Mining folks should know enough to know that if those men are really alive, they're gonna be as sick as hell and will need to go to the hospital first".

Turns out now that a large number of witnesses at the church (witnesses who didn't have families in the mine, and perhaps one or two who did) are now saying that THAT was a mistake and that it was someone who was wearing Red Cross tags who told them that, NOT a representative of the mining company.  Which meshes with what the CEO said when he said that they'd never passed along a message like that.

Witnesses in the church ALSO corroborate the Gov's statement that he was in the church anteroom when the statement was made, and made his way into the church proper, asking what was gonig on, AND HAD TO BE TOLD that the men were found alive.

This, of course, contradicts the families who stated, bluntly, that it was the GOV who told them.

He didn't.  He didn't know.

The mining company didn't.

It was people who were at the command center who couldn't wait to be the first ones to spread the 'good news' and so whipped out the cellphones and spread information that was horrendously wrong.

What I blame the mining company for is not going to the families when they got the SECOND bit of informaiton forty five minutes later and saying "look, I know someone's told you that we've found twelve alive, but right now, there is so much going on down in the mines that the truth is, we don't know what we've found, so I'd just continue to pray and let's see what happens."

He didn't, and that was wrong.  But it was, IMHO, a human mistake, needing to rectify something that he had expressly ordered NOT to happen (no one giving ANY information to the public), and I think that he was paralyzed when the second contradicting message came down the pipe.

There was a mistake made, and it was a horrible mistake, but I don't think the man's an ogre either.

#40 G1223

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 10:41 AM

I have been thinking about the situation. First the mining company rep might very well have been ready to go and tell people that the other twelve were dead. and got told that someone had already told the families. There seems to have been a great deal of miscommunication. That one of these men survived was a miricle. I hope he can recover.  

As for the other tweleve I can only hope that the end was quick and painless. I think it is tragic but all the fingerpointing and microphones being stuck in people's faces is doing is hurting a group of people.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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