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#21 enTranced

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 03:48 PM

View PostNeuralClone, on Jan 23 2006, 07:51 PM, said:

I was all set to order this game and then I saw the monthly fee and immediately emptied my cart. Until other companies get rid of the stupid monthly fees, Guild Wars is going to be the only MMORPG I play. At least it's one of the best MMORPGs around as well. After having a small taste of the Assassin profession that's going to be in Guild Wars: Factions this past weekend, I can't wait to play through the new campaign. :cool:

As I understand it the monthly fee pays for the staff that MMORPG's need to have for tech support and programing for the content and bug stomping that goes along with the open ended MMORPG philosophy.

City of Heroes/ City of Villians has new content and/or interface improvements added every month! That has to come from somewhere!

As for RFO, i found out over the weekend that this game is almost exclusevly PvP. The PvE stuff will be very weak and the level grind will be VERRRYYYYY SLOOOOOOOOW since you have to worry about leveling up as well as dealing with skill managemnt (which is seperate from your level).

IE : If you power level your character WILL be gimped. After you exit the solo zones you will need to have a large party to survive PvP areas so soloing is a bad idea.

I'm going to wait till I see some reviews for the US/Europe version which WILL be changed somewhat from the asian version but i've cooled a little to this game, which sucks because the screenshots DO look amazing.

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#22 NeuralClone

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 04:53 PM

While I appreciate server fees, etcs., ArenaNet is proving that those fees aren't necessary since Guild Wars has been quite successful. They are constantly updating and improving Guild Wars without charging its subscribers one cent beyond the initial $50. Sure they have tons of expansions and new mini-add ons planned, but none of them are required or give players an unfair advantage. Also, if you look at the Guild Wars launch, it went extremely smoothly. So I think that the costs of updating and maintaining MMORPGS can be severely reduced if the company making them plans ahead better (e.g., Guild Wars has streaming technology that updates areas as they load). Ultimately, I think the whole "server/maintenance fee" thing is just a cleverly disguised ploy to rob people of even more money. They were probably needed when bandwidth was more expensive but with the cheapness of bandwidth nowadays, I think the "server fee" excuse is a bit outdated.

I guess I'm just sick of the same formula when it comes to MMORPGs. Guild Wars was a breathe of fresh air for me because they actually tried to do something different by not forcing insane monthly fees after charging $50. The fact that they have constantly improved the game, listened to fan input (the new assassin class is partially in response to fans wanting a dual-wield class), and have even released tons of free updates. All of these things combined make for a much happier gamer who will more likely continue to play the game and buy expansions because (1) its free and there's no obligation to continue buying stuff (2) the company has demonstrated that they are just as concerned about having happy customers as they are about making money.

(Sorry if this seems like a rant, enTranced. It isn't meant to be aimed at you or anyone else in this thread.)

Edited by NeuralClone, 23 January 2006 - 04:55 PM.

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#23 D'Monix

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 05:11 PM

CoH/Cov is the one MMO i'll probably never get rid of, at least for the forseeable future, they'd have to pull a really major bonehead maneuver to make me want to leave.

I'm doing beta for D&D Online.  Interesting, I tend to look at the instancing thing from the perspective of CoH that all adventure lauch points thus far are from the city itself.  And I don't really mind or miss the endless walking across terrain and random bunny spawns to get to the dungeon that i'm going to. Now whether this all pans out remains to be seen.

Some of my friends are playing Auto Assault in Beta and loving it, so that may be an option, no idea if there will be a monthly fee for it yet either, I personally hope it goes the guild wars route because auto assault appeals to the Car Wars players in me.

I'm lukewarm about WoW, lukewarm about D&D online, though i may play one or the other until Warhammer Online gets ready for beta, this project was started by Climax, but folded, but now the makers of DAOC have taken it over with their vision of it, so hopefully they can get it right.

#24 woody000

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 05:51 PM

The problem with guild wars is it isn't (at least for most people) a very long term game. There isn't enough content to keep it interesting for a long time. That's not first hand, just what I've heard dozens of people say and why many of my online friends only stayed there for a little while and soon moved on.

The thing is it's a different kind of game to most MMOs, they will have designed it baring in mind they won't be getting as much cash flow.

#25 NeuralClone

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 10:49 PM

I think people get bored far too easily. I've been playing Guild Wars since it came out (we're on 8 months now...) and I still find that there is plenty of stuff to do. The game has well over 100 hours of gameplay for just the main story and that doesn't even include PvP stuff. If I were to play the game for several hours every day for eight months, I'm sure I would grow tired of it. However, the same would be true of any game. I don't play any game that much.

It isn't meant to rob people of countless hours of their time only to find they are still level 10 and only have 100 gold. Their goal also isn't to make millions of dollars off of "server fees." Instead, they are making money off the sale of the game, content packs, music packs, and stand alone expansions/upgrades.

People looking for just PvE action will probably be more satisfied with longer, more intense leveling found in games such as Everquest and World of Warcraft (all while paying a crapload of money every month to gain experience and very few items). ArenaNet has never claimed that Guild Wars is an MMORPG so anyone that plays it expecting the usual grind will be greatly disappointed. So yes, Guild Wars isn't a typical MMORPG but that's the point. Guild Wars is more about highly focused, team-oriented combat with an emphasis on strategy rather than power gaming. Yes, Guild Wars is more of a strategy game than an MMORPG.  Naturally the game will appeal to a different type of gamer than the gamer that likes to spend endless hours farming for gold, resources, items, and experience points. Guild Wars just isn't that kind of game. :)

Guild Wars has more in common with Magic: The Gathering and "tactics" style games than an MMORPG. It just so happens there is a PvE component but that is only half the game. Guild battles and other types of PvP are just as much a part of Guild Wars as the main story. All those aspects I listed as part of the "typical" MMORPG drive me crazy. I suppose that's why I find Guild Wars so refreshing. It's the type of game I have been waiting for.

Edited by NeuralClone, 23 January 2006 - 10:50 PM.

"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"

#26 woody000

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 03:24 AM

Ah, you're a much more light gamer than most of the people I was talking about. For them, world of warcraft is a small game. :p Guild wars is tiny on that scale. They want a game that'll last several hours a day, possibly up to 5 even on average, for a good year or more. (I know people that play 8+ hours a day though too... it becomes incredibly sad and rather worrying at that point imo.)

RF online for example, being a far eastern game would probably have at least twice the leveling ladder of world of warcraft. :p It should also be noted that WoW isn't a grind game either, not compared to some anyway. Try playing my first MMO... myth of soma *shudders*.

To me, I'm in between the two, World of Warcraft is about perfect in terms of size for me.

Edited by woody000, 24 January 2006 - 03:29 AM.


#27 NeuralClone

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 04:06 AM

If you have to spend the better part of a year getting to the highest level in a game, then it's a "grind" game. World of Warcraft definitely fits into that category. It isn't the worst offender when it comes to insane grinds (Lineage II is much worse) but it still takes an absurdly long time to reach the highest level.

When I have the time I've been known to play a game for up to 4 hours at a shot (sometimes longer). So I don't know if I'd consider myself a light gamer. I just don't usually have time to play that much. I've been playing games for about 15 years or so and have played my fair share of longer games (Morrowind, Daggerfall, Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Throne of Bhaal, and others come to mind).

Also, I think you missed my point about the length of Guild Wars. The PvE part of the game is only around 100 hours or so (plus another 100 hours, depending on what you want to do). The PvP portion is also a huge part of the game and is highly competitive. While the PvE portion of the game is fun, the real draw (for me) is the complex, strategic combat of the PvP portion of the game. That is what keeps me coming back for more. That portion of the game is extremely rewarding.

As I said before, I strongly dislike games with a long "grind." I think it's pointless and artificially increases the length of games (often to the subscriber's expense...). You could have a 400+ hour game and spend 80% of it leveling up to become an Uber God of Dwarf Smiting or some other such ridiculous thing. Spending hundreds of hours just leveling up and making money isn't my idea of a good time. I find that type of gameplay boring. I strongly dislike power gaming, which many MMORPGs seem to support. Guild Wars essentially eliminates all the elements of most MMORPGs that I dislike.

My point is that Guild Wars appeals to different gamers than the average MMORPG gamer. It's a different breed of online game. The length of the game isn't what keeps people coming back for more. It's community, the complex PvP battles, and the non-existent/pointless server fee that plagues most other MMORPGs. So those gamers you are referring to that find Guild Wars boring, either didn't look hard enough or they just have vastly different tastes in games than I do.

(As a note, I used World of Warcraft as an example because it is often unfairly compared to Guild Wars and is one of the more popular MMORPGs nowadays.)

Edited by NeuralClone, 24 January 2006 - 04:11 AM.

"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"

#28 woody000

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 12:52 PM

To me a grind game is one that has an above average length levelling ladder and where the main point of the game is getting to the level cap and is done simply by killing mobs in a robotic, repetitive fashion. World of warcraft has a crafting system, PvP, and a lot of end-game content which is very enjoyable. On a scale with every MMO out, it's near the bottom in terms of levelling ladders. And you can get to the level cap entirely while doing quests. If it's a grind game, it's certainly one of the mildest grind games.

Edited by woody000, 24 January 2006 - 12:54 PM.



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