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Row over Danish cartoons depicting Muhammad with bomb

Religion Islam Cartoons of Muhammad

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#1 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 10:15 AM

Devisions over cartoons
Annan pleas for calm.
More info

Muslim protests have contained banners saying:

"Butcher those who mock Islam"
"Freedom of expression go to hell"
"Europe go to hell"
"Behead those who insult Islam"

The list goes on...

The cartoons? I have them all on my fridge. Reminds me of the world I live in. Are they violent? No. Do they encourage violence directly? No. In fact, they are realtively tame. And yet the Muslims (some of them) are crying blue murder and most of the rest are fuming. And these are the same people who published a cartoon of Jews dressed as Nazis murdering small children.... *hypocrisy alert*

IMO the cartoons were in poor taste. However, they were not violent and they were not encouraging violence. The west is famous for its satirical attitude to religion and its apptitude for political satire. All religions and organisations are fair game (with the possible exception of Jews, but considering the systematic genocide of the Holocaust, that is understandable). Those who are being satirised need to accept the freedoms that allow it, ignore it if they dont like it, be irritated and offended by all means but GET OVER IT. They are fair game, just like anyone else. Their religious laws do not apply in the west and they are foolish to expect that they should. This is really a very small matter, considering 9/11 and 7/7 etc. And if they are as religious as they claim, surely their own religious conviction will carry them through. They dont need to west to pussy-foot around them for fear of hurting their religion.

Besides, if they deny us freedom of speech, that does not bode well for them in the future...

....and it seems this has already been covered! *slaps self for being dense* Is there any way this post could be moved to the real topic on this? And this topic deleated?

Edited by Schmokie_Dragon, 04 February 2006 - 10:24 AM.

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#2 Fragsta

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 11:14 AM

I would suggest you ask for this topic to be locked and you copy and paste your response into the other thread. Ahh well its okay, the other thread's title is a little bit ambiguous. :lol:
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#3 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 11:25 AM

The worst bit though? I was even involved in the discussion on the other thread!

OK, can someone kill this topic pleaze!
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#4 Godeskian

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 02:09 PM

even better, now they are torching embassies in protest

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Syrians have set fire to the Norwegian and Danish embassies in Damascus to protest at the publication of newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/4681294.stm

You know, for a cartoon they are taking this WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to seriously.

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#5 woody000

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 02:26 PM

Indeed. I understand their objections. The subject matter of the cartoon is irrelevant, their outrage would be understandable from the depiction itself. Nevertheless they're going way too far.

Edited by woody000, 04 February 2006 - 02:27 PM.


#6 Godeskian

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 02:28 PM

View Postwoody000, on Feb 4 2006, 09:26 PM, said:

Indeed. I understand their objections.
Sure, much like the press has the freedom to print it, people have the freedom to complain. Personally I don't think the subject matter is any more offensive than i've seen in other cartoons like that. However freedom of speech is not the same as freedom to burn down buildings.

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#7 woody000

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 02:38 PM

It's not just the subject matter though is it? Don't they find it offensive to depict him at all?

If they were making a useful point, which in terms of free speech was something worth saying then part of me would think, sure, it's fine, but it seemed like such a pointless exercise (from what I've heard) and only served to offend people.

Edited by woody000, 04 February 2006 - 02:39 PM.


#8 Godeskian

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 02:42 PM

View Postwoody000, on Feb 4 2006, 09:38 PM, said:

It's not just the subject matter though is it? Don't they find it offensive to depict him at all?

I understand the religion doesn't allow ANY depictions of living beings. However it's also interesting that a passage in the Qu'ran actually speaks of him as normal man

from the BBC

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A great deal of the Islamic literature about Muhammad is hagiographic - that is, unstinting in its praise.

It elevates the founder of Islam to a unique level of perfection and infallibility.

....

But at the same time it stands in sharp contrast to another Islamic tradition, based on the following Koranic verse: "Say: 'I am but a man like yourselves'."

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#9 QueenTiye

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 03:00 PM

I think the no depiction of living beings thing is sectarian.  However not depicting the Prophet is universal - at least on idea is to prevent the worship of the Prophet's image.

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#10 Julianus

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 04:16 PM

Does anyone know if Mohammed has made an appearance on "South Park?" Jesus has, as has Moses and Satan. If Mohammed has not, might that be seen as discrimination? :devil:

#11 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 04:20 PM

Yes. They interpreted a passage in the Quran which says there is "nothing like a likeness of Him" as forbidding the depiction of allah. They then applied this to Mo. They were attempting to avoid icon worship

Quote

If they were making a useful point, which in terms of free speech was something worth saying then part of me would think, sure, it's fine, but it seemed like such a pointless exercise (from what I've heard) and only served to offend people.

They claim their objective was to prove that Islam was not above satire and criticism. It was a dangerous game and they are paying the price, but I can see whay they did it. To prove that Islam is not untouchable.
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#12 Nonny

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 05:05 PM

Let's see now, kill those who mock.  :blink:  For crying out loud!  And all over stupid fairy tales too!  I have lost patience with religious fundamentalism and zealotry of all stripes.  :angry:  

And I want an offensive Danish cartoon teeshirt!  :devil:  

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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#13 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 05:37 PM

Make one! :)

Here are the cartoons BTW, for anyone who has not seen them:



Has anyone asked them this:

Why does your pride and hurt feelings take precidence over my right to freedom from censorship and oppression?

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#14 Nonny

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 05:42 PM

View PostSchmokie_Dragon, on Feb 4 2006, 02:37 PM, said:

Make one! :)
I might could do that!  :)

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Here are the cartoons BTW, for anyone who has not seen them:
Thanks.  Now that I've seen them, I'm wondering what the hell the fuss is all about.  :blink:  These folks are way too thin skinned.  Might as well wear "Kick Me" signs on their backsides.  :rolleyes:  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#15 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 05:51 PM

I think the virgins one is hilarious.... but maybe I shouldnt say that!

But you see what I mean about an absence of violence.... you would have to be a real hardline racist to take those as a cue to attack muslims.

The hardline muslims take such great offense that they are willing to encourage killing... and yet they do this kind of thing, only WORSE to the Jewish.
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#16 Nonny

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 06:03 PM

Contrast all this hoohah with this, from Yahoo:

Quote

NBC, Christian group spar over "Will & Grace"

By Steve Gorman Fri Feb 3, 1:11 AM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A conservative advocacy group that urged a boycott of NBC's recently canceled drama about a pill-popping priest turned its wrath on Thursday to an upcoming "Will & Grace" episode that it says will mock Christ's crucifixion.

But NBC executives insist the group's objections stem from faulty details in a press release mistakenly issued by the network earlier this week, and that neither a script nor story line for the episode in question has been written.

The latest religious flap at NBC flared after the network announced on Tuesday that pop star Britney Spears will make an April 13 guest appearance on "Will & Grace," playing a Christian conservative talk-show sidekick to Jack, the gay character portrayed by series regular Sean Hayes.

According to NBC's initial synopsis of the episode, Jack's fictional TV network, Out TV, is taken over by a Christian broadcaster, leading Spears' character to do a cooking segment on his show called "Cruci-fixin's."....
:rolleyes:  Unpleasantness, yes, calls for murder and mayhem, no.  :cool:  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#17 Nonny

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 06:13 PM

View PostSchmokie_Dragon, on Feb 4 2006, 02:51 PM, said:

I think the virgins one is hilarious.... but maybe I shouldnt say that!
Heh, I'll say it.  It's a hoot!  :D  

Quote

But you see what I mean about an absence of violence.... you would have to be a real hardline racist to take those as a cue to attack muslims.

The hardline muslims take such great offense that they are willing to encourage killing... and yet they do this kind of thing, only WORSE to the Jewish.
I'm thinking of one of the last church events I ever attended, an ecumenical Thanksgiving  service in a small farming community in Southern California, hosted by the Methodist church.  Most everybody got into the spirit of sharing, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Luiseņos and, I think, Gabrieleņos(local Native Americans), Hindus.  It was quite a diverse crowd.  The only clergyperson who didn't get the spirit was the new Muslim guy, who took the lectern and denounced us all for not being Muslim.  We politely sat there with phony smiles on our faces, and trashed him behind his back later.  Good times!  :rolleyes:  

Anyway, I am more than a little tired of the My Way or Die crap.  :angry:  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#18 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 06:24 PM

Now, I'm going to be really racist here ;)

But it does seem that there are certain religious/ethnic groups that are more inclined to this behaviour than others...

Edited by Schmokie_Dragon, 04 February 2006 - 06:25 PM.

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#19 Fragsta

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 06:31 PM

Certain people who are part of certain religious/ethnic groups, you mean. Perhaps we don't know the full story with Nonny's Muslim clergyman?
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#20 Schmokie_Dragon

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 06:51 PM

Ok, certain people. But I thought that went without saying. Its not going to be everyone!

And I was actualy making a point that certain groups, for whatever reason, seem to have a higher percentage of people inclined to this kind of thing than others.

I am not suggesting the west is perfect, and I am not being racist. I am sure there is a reason, be it genetic, cultural, religious etc. I am not saying we are better than them. But there do seem to be certain trends.
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