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Row over Danish cartoons depicting Muhammad with bomb

Religion Islam Cartoons of Muhammad

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#81 G1223

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 08:17 PM

I have also seen in a few too many threads in OT where attacks aimed at Christians gets not even half the defense Islam is getting.
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#82 Lin731

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 08:52 PM

Kalistria
We'll have to agree to disagree on this, I really don't have the gusto right now to get into any heavy debate about it.

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Foreign Policy .com disagrees with you on this, Lin. Poverty does not make for terrorism--rather, the majority of terrorists are middle-class to upper-class, educated and disilluioned with the disenfranchisement and foreign policies of the Western world.

Apparently the South African president Thabo Mbeki as well as the WTO beg to differ with Foreign Policy. com's think tank.

http://www.issafrica...rorism/0205.htm

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Douglas Farah and Richard Shultz in an article for the Washington Post say, that with the end of the conflicts in Liberia and Sierra Leone, West Africa is seldom in the news or on the policy agenda. “Yet the region is quietly gaining recognition for what is has long been: a haven for Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. Weak and corrupt governments, vast, virtually stateless stretches awash in weapons, and impoverished, largely Muslim populations make the region and ideal sanctuary.”

The crux of the debate is that countries with weak governments and failing economies may become safe havens and fertile breeding grounds for terrorists. In the case of weak governments, the argument is that the absence of effective policing structures coupled with rampant corruption will allow terrorists to exist without detection. In the case of adverse economic conditions, it has been suggested that people are more susceptible to recruitment into terrorist organisations in countries with overwhelming socio-economic problems than in more stable countries (see top story).

At a United Nations General Assembly debate in 2001,South African president Thabo Mbeki said that the inequalities of  the world had resulted in a deep sense of injustice, social alienation, despair and a willingness to sacrifice (lives) if there was nothing to be lost and everything to be gained. This view was reiterated at a World Trade Organisation (WTO) meeting in 2002, when poverty was singled out as the greatest threat to peace, security, democracy, human rights and the environment. Even protestors critical of the current form of globalisation agree that unfair trade practices, which lead to inequality and poverty, provide fertile breeding grounds for terrorism.

African leaders are not happy about the ‘African breeding ground of terrorism’, as poverty alleviation, education, HIV/Aids, unemployment and development issues top their national agendas; yet they are the first ones to admit that the continent has to act decisively to prevent the spread of terror networks. At the inauguration of the African Center for the Study and Research of Terrorism, Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika said the key to countering global terrorism was prevention, “so that the continent does not become a breeding ground for terrorism and a base for terrorist groups which could then indiscriminately attack African countries and other regions of the world from our continent.”

It would be simplistic to say that adverse conditions render certain parts of Africa a breeding ground of terrorism. At this point, we would like to refer to the editorial of this newsletter, and suggest to readers to take some time to study the rather enlightening findings of the working group on the root causes of terrorism at the International Summit on Democracy, Terrorism and Security held in the Spanish capital Madrid in March 2005 ( http://english.safe-...ing-groups.html ). Listed below are links to articles that examine the threat of terrorism in Africa.

Lacking in many of the articles on terrorism in Africa, is a structural analysis of what could be done to safeguard against Africa’s descent into an anarchic haven for terrorists. A recent 10-year review of the plan of action adopted at the 1995 World Summit on Sustainable Development (WSSD) has indicated that the focus in the war on terror may be misdirected. The report laments that human and financial resources are continuously diverted away from development to military spending...
“A Terror Breeding Ground?”
“Poverty Fueling Terrorism” - BBC News Online, 22 March 2002
“Thousands died in Africa yesterday”
“Military Gobbles Funds Earmarked for Social Development”
“The Terrorist Threat in Africa” - Foreign Affairs
‘We must not breed terrorists’ - News24

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I don't believe this to be true. First of all, the lack of control isn't something most people, especially in poorer regions and in the poorest of regions, is going to be worried about simply because they already know they don't have any control. They're more concerned about how to get food, clean water and a place to live while the terrorists are out making their lives miserable by committing acts that forces the West to cut off foreign aid that could be used to help them.

And the terrorists got a foothold in those places HOW? You act as though I said it ALL revolves around being poor. I worded my earlier post poorly and I attempted to clarify that. It's not the only reason but to claim it's not a factor IMO makes no sense at all. Poor countries to me equates to more than just poor citizens it also lends itself to poor/ weak/unstable governments. They lack the resources to properly secure their borders, care for their citizens and to keep the peace amongst the population.

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The article also points out that the poorest of the poor countries don't have a terrorist problem like the Middle East and Northern Africa does. It also states that there has been no conclusive evidence that there is a correlation between poor people and supporters of terrorism.

So that equates to you as no correlation at all? Not to mention the fact that terrorism on the African Contintent is NOT confined to Northern africa.

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Four regions on the continent are believed to be the new rearguard bases for al Qaeda and affiliated groups: the Horn of Africa, North Africa, the Pan Sahel region and West Africa.

General Charles Wald oversees most of Africa for the U.S. military's European Command. He said, "No place is safe from this activity. I mean, they'll go any place where they can operate with impunity or freedom."

http://www.globalsec...aeda-growth.htm

CBN News asked Wald, “What is it about Africa that is so appealing to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups?”

Gen. Wald responded, “Well, I think the environment is appealing.”

Consider that environment through the eyes of a terror planner. According to the United Nations, 27 of the least developed countries in the world are in Africa. Half of the 25 worst countries are also in Africa.

Poverty, weak borders, corruption, unemployment, wars and famine plague many African nations, keeping the continent in a constant state of turmoil. Plus, anti-American and anti-Israeli feelings run deep in many parts of the continent, fueled in part by a steady diet of hate by Saudi-funded mosques and schools.

All this is giving al Qaeda planners the recruitment base needed to convert waves of bitter Muslim youth into American haters.


Princeton Lyman is the former U.S. Ambassador to South Africa and Nigeria. He said, “You don't need large numbers, you need seams within populations to exploit frustrations that have been going on for a long time.”

Nine-Eleven was a reminder that failed states, like Afghanistan, pose a significant threat to U.S. national security.

Africa faces a similar crisis.

John Pike tracks emerging threats to the United States. He stated, "We are on the verge of continent-wide state failure."

Pike says Africa is a graveyard of failed or failing states -- countries that either have collapsed or are on the verge of collapse. Twenty-five of the 51 countries in Africa have that dubious distinction.

This gives al Qaeda planners and other criminals the ideal environment to move men, weapons and money around the globe.

Lyman remarked, "I think what the terrorists want to do in Africa is to lay the groundwork, to have economic ties, to be able to establish terrorist cells and maybe use those cells outside Africa, as well as in."

All of which has Washington paying more attention to Africa. The U.S. military is now training armies in nine countries as part of a $125 million program aimed at fighting terrorism in Africa.

The Pentagon is also working with a number of countries to establish six or more U.S. military bases at airports or remote camps in Africa.

Two-hundred-man units will command these bases, allowing U.S. troops fast access to trouble spots.

Gen. Wald said, "So we have to get into that environment and take away that environment."

There is no doubt that Osama bin Laden's network of terror has suffered significant setbacks in the last three years of the global war against terrorism. Three-quarters of al Qaeda's key members and associates before 9-11 have been captured or killed.

That is the good news. The bad news is that the network is by no means out of business.

de Borchgrave remarked, “It is a beast and it is wounded, but it has licked its wounds and gone on to other pastures.”

Pastures that today zigzag across Africa and around the world, revealing the true stretch of al Qaeda's deadly tentacles.

This is my last post on the issue for now. I got meds to take and I'm tired and grumpy. I'll poke my head in again when I'm feeling better.

Edited by Lin731, 05 February 2006 - 08:56 PM.

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#83 Pallas

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 09:23 PM

Hmm. This isn't really an issue where we're agreeing to disagree Lin. I'm open the debate and a conversation but that isn't going to happen if you get defensive every time I try to argue a point. I understand that you're sick so I won't read too much into it but if you could stop making every post like I attacked you, I'd appreciate it.

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So that equates to you as no correlation at all? Not to mention the fact that terrorism on the African Contintent is NOT confined to Northern africa

I don't believe I said that, no. No conclusive evidence doesn't meant there is no correlation, it just means we lack sufficient data to draw a correlation that isn't merely a spurious cause and effect.

As for terrorism in the rest of Africa--I'm not sure about this but I think there's a difference between the types of activities they're engaged in. Terrorism and terrorists are terms used for groups of people who use fear tactics to achieve a political agenda. The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda doesn't have the same agenda as Hamas in Palestine. In Africa, most of the conflicts are internal civil conflicts whereby one group uses fear tactics, terrorism, to intimidate the other. In the Middle East, these tactics are used as a means of protest against the West.

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It would be simplistic to say that adverse conditions render certain parts of Africa a breeding ground of terrorism


From the article you provided. Foreign policy (not to over quote the article and rely too heavily on it) didn't disagree with this. It said pretty much the same thing.

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Poverty, weak borders, corruption, unemployment, wars and famine plague many African nations, keeping the continent in a constant state of turmoil. Plus, anti-American and anti-Israeli feelings run deep in many parts of the continent, fueled in part by a steady diet of hate by Saudi-funded mosques and schools.

All this is giving al Qaeda planners the recruitment base needed to convert waves of bitter Muslim youth into American haters.

Again the article. What I read from this however is that poverty, weak borders, corruption, unemployment, wars and famine allow for terrorism to flourish--it doesn't cause it.


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#84 tennyson

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 09:30 PM

Again the article. What I read from this however is that poverty, weak borders, corruption, unemployment, wars and famine allow for terrorism to flourish--it doesn't cause it. [quote]

We seem to be so much on the same page about this it is a little scary. I was just going to make the same point about while these countries are vulnerable they aren't where it recieved its genisis.

I have been meaning to post an article that appeared in the Fall 2005 West Virginia University Alumni Magazine, but I see it still isn't on the website.
For those who are interested the article is "Alumna Challenges Faith:Brings Changing Face of Women in Islam Into Focus"
by Janey Cink
It is on the experiences of WVU Alumni Asra Nomani and how she has been involved with improving the status of women in Islamic culture.
whenever it comes on the website go to
[url="http://www.ia.wvu.edu/~magazine"]http://www.ia.wvu.edu/~magazine[/url]
to find it.

Edited by tennyson, 05 February 2006 - 09:59 PM.

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#85 QueenTiye

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 10:45 PM

View PostDelvo, on Feb 5 2006, 05:14 PM, said:

That is not what I've done. In fact I'm making MORE of a point of dissociating them from the militant folks and recognizing the vast difference in their beliefs and behaviors, by calling them separate religions. It's not a matter of denying that those friends you mentioned exist or claiming that they must be terrorists or terrorist wannabes; it's a matter of claiming that they're SO different from the terrorists and follow SUCH a different religion that the same words shouldn't be used for both.


Then give the religion of the terrorists a different name.

View PostDelvo, on Feb 5 2006, 05:26 PM, said:

View PostQueenTiye, on Feb 5 2006, 12:22 PM, said:

I was muslim up until 2 years ago.
You've said yourself that you quit calling yourself one because you didn't believe and weren't following what Islam teaches. Someone who doesn't believe and doesn't follow the defining teachings of a given religion isn't really a member of that religion, whether (s)he's called one or not.

I've never said that I don't believe what Islam taught.  I disagreed with some of the practices of modern muslims, and disagreed with the interpretations of the so-called scholars - but that's something different.

View Postscherzo, on Feb 5 2006, 05:57 PM, said:

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I disagree with you that "Islam is inherently a religion of bloodthirst" and that people, like me, who refrain from pronouncing it thus are concerned with being PC. Shoot, George Bush himself went out of his way after 9/11 to announce that the problem isn't Islam; the problem is a particular ideological offshoot of Islam.
Yeah...and he was being PC Specs...and he is wrong. All Muslims do not support terrorism, but the religion itself apparently does.(I've read too much material directly from the Qu'ran itself to come to any other conclusion) It's a point worth repeating, even if the POTUS is afraid to.

Bring your proof.  Chapter and verse.

For the record - I'm not being politically correct here.  I think that most of what is passing for Islam is why another Prophet had to come.  I can go on and on criticising Islam - and I stand on firm authority in doing so - the Qur'an itself condemns most of the practices of modern Islam.  I'm defending the name of the Prophet Muhammad and the religion of God that He revealed.

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#86 Lin731

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 10:51 PM

Tennyson,
I try one last time here and I'm done...Let's look at the article you keep referring to...

1. I see alot of references to what ISN'T the cause of terrorism but very little about what DOES. I'm a bit medicated at the moment so bear with me Is this the explaination for what motivates terrorism in your opinion?

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Radical Islamists want nothing less than the restoration of Islamic sovereignty to all lands where Muslims were once ascendant, including Bulgaria, Cyprus, Ethiopia, Hungary, Sicily, Spain, and even parts of France.

Militant Islamists also see a connection between their local issues and global politics. To them, Muslims are victims in every conflict and the West is responsible for Muslim suffering and powerlessness.

The premise being a sense of victimhood and desire to restore Islam to it "golden age" and that all the "other" issues, conflicts etc...are merely the means to this above quoted end?

Now let's look at the article further:

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“Poverty, Unemployment, and Lack of Education Make Terrorists”
Prove it.

Poverty, unemployment, and lack of education are serious problems in some of the world’s most populous Muslim countries. There is, however, no evidence of a correlation between these social and economic ills and terrorism. Terrorists are not always poor and prosperity does not end terrorism.

So it's not "proven" correct?  Nor is it entirely "disproven".

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Terrorist groups, like other employers, impose standards of quality in their recruitment efforts. Research shows that terrorists tend to be of “higher quality”—more educated or accomplished in other jobs and pursuits.

Might I ask where the research comes from, where's the data and source info? I didn't see anything cited for the source of this research data.

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These individuals are more likely to turn to terrorism when the economy is weak and jobs are in short supply. When the economy is good, “high-quality” persons generally have access to lucrative jobs relative to their “low-quality” counterparts, and the cost of leaving a good job in order to participate in a terrorist movement is relatively high. That helps explain why engineers and other technical persons with a history of underemployment get involved in terrorism. They are both available and desired by terrorist organizations, particularly during periods of economic stagnation and downturn.

So while the article seems to imply that economics ISN'T a factor, they then go on to cite it as a reason why many "skilled' people get into these terrorist groups (Unless I'm misreading it somehow.)

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“People Support Terrorism Because They Are Poor and Lack Opportunity”
Doubtful

The survey of 14 Muslim countries found that respondents who reported having inadequate money for food were the least likely to support terrorism.

Again I have to ask, what survey? Conducted by who? What was the sampling size, what countries etc...?

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It is possible, of course, that addressing socio-economic concerns such as poverty and education in Muslim countries would decrease the support that terrorists enjoy there. It is also possible that support for terrorism might hinge more upon differences in economic status across time than upon the level of poverty at any given moment. Either way, it is too early to draw conclusions. Development agencies and advocates should collect more data on the support for terrorism among the poor.

So again, the issue is up in the air, nothing definative.

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“Perceived Threats to Islam Create Support for Terrorism”
Absolutely.

Agreed, the preception doesn't have to be a real threat, it's all about perception

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“Disenchanted, Angry Muslims in Europe and North America Are Potential Terrorist Recruits”
Increasingly.

The reasons for this phenomenon are numerous and varied. Many North American and European Muslims found Islam while spending time in prison.

So why are they "Disenchanted and angry"? the article make no reference to reasons behind this but it does mention the fertile recruiting grounds found in prison. Now most the folks I know of in prison aren't their because they were doing all that well out in the world. Most that I know of are there relating to money issues...drugs, robbery, B&E and often murder, often boil down to money (the lack of it and an easy means of attaining it).

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“Young, Unmarried Muslim Males Are the Most Likely to Become Terrorists”
No.

I agree with this, there is no set profile male/female, young/old and at least in this section the article cites the source for it's data.

I don't know Tennyson, overall I just find this article very conflicted and lacking in proper creds for the "research, data and surveys" it keeps referencing.

As far as I'm concerned the leaders of radical Islam have an agenda far different from the average muslim...Religious intolerance, power and perhaps they really DO beleive in resurrecting this Utopian era of Islam but I don't know that I beleive that to be the motivations of those who follow them.
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#87 QueenTiye

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 01:09 AM

View PostQueenTiye, on Feb 5 2006, 10:45 PM, said:

View PostDelvo, on Feb 5 2006, 05:26 PM, said:

View PostQueenTiye, on Feb 5 2006, 12:22 PM, said:

I was muslim up until 2 years ago.
You've said yourself that you quit calling yourself one because you didn't believe and weren't following what Islam teaches. Someone who doesn't believe and doesn't follow the defining teachings of a given religion isn't really a member of that religion, whether (s)he's called one or not.

I've never said that I don't believe what Islam taught.  I disagreed with some of the practices of modern muslims, and disagreed with the interpretations of the so-called scholars - but that's something different.

View Postscherzo, on Feb 5 2006, 05:57 PM, said:

Quote

I disagree with you that "Islam is inherently a religion of bloodthirst" and that people, like me, who refrain from pronouncing it thus are concerned with being PC. Shoot, George Bush himself went out of his way after 9/11 to announce that the problem isn't Islam; the problem is a particular ideological offshoot of Islam.
Yeah...and he was being PC Specs...and he is wrong. All Muslims do not support terrorism, but the religion itself apparently does.(I've read too much material directly from the Qu'ran itself to come to any other conclusion) It's a point worth repeating, even if the POTUS is afraid to.

Bring your proof.  Chapter and verse.

For the record - I'm not being politically correct here.  I think that most of what is passing for Islam is why another Prophet had to come.  I can go on and on criticising Islam - and I stand on firm authority in doing so - the Qur'an itself condemns most of the practices of modern Islam.  I'm defending the name of the Prophet Muhammad and the religion of God that He revealed.

QT

On second thought - this is off topic for this thread.  

Delvo - you will most certainly argue that it is the moderates who are following something else, while it was Muhammad's original intent to form a bloodthirsty religion.

scherzo - I've already extended to you the invitation to share your knowledge of Qur'an to support your claim that the Holy Qur'an endorses terrorism.  However, this thread is not the proper venue for discussing either of those points (yours or Delvo's) in depth.  I've started and will be posting in a thread on my own board on the subject of 'What is Islam, Really, and invite you and everyone to continue this part of the discussion there: http://queentiyesrea...39205359&page=1

QT

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#88 scherzo

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 04:09 AM

QueenTiye said:

Quote

Bring your proof. Chapter and verse.
Sooo...
http://www.godlessge...LINKS/Quran.htm
Can't really say this is "proof" of anything, because ultimately what we're dealing with is my own interpretation of the text. But my opinion is justified by almost daily atrocities in the name of Islam. The Muslim religion is a consistent thread in an incredible amount of perverse violence and repression, and it stands to reason that some people are going to notice.

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#89 Spectacles

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 07:11 AM

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Psalm 35:5 - May they be like chaff before the wind.

Psalm 55:15 - Let death take my enemies by surprise; let them go down alive to the grave.

Psalm 58:6 - O God, break the teeth in their mouths.

Psalm 69:28 - May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Psalm 109:9 - May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.

Psalm 137:9 - How blessed will be the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

http://www.growingch...rg/dfgc/zap.htm

And that's just a few verses from Psalms. Yeah, it's Old Testament, but the Old Testament contains foundational texts for both Christianity and Judaism.  For New Testament bloodthirstiness, there's plenty to be found in the surreal visions of Revelations, where Jesus returns and the unbelievers are punished brutally, pressed in a device like a winepress for infidels until their blood flows like a river.

And if we look at the history of Christianity, it's pretty bloody. Christians did not deal kindly with heretics and blasphemers. I guess the Enlightment helped to moderate Christian values. So maybe the problem with some Islamic sects is that they are still pre-Enlightenment. In fact, they're still fighting the Crusades and recall in great detail all the pillaging and burning that we did in their homeland. To them, the Crusades happened yesterday.
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#90 Kosh

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 08:51 AM

View PostJulianus, on Feb 4 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

Does anyone know if Mohammed has made an appearance on "South Park?" Jesus has, as has Moses and Satan. If Mohammed has not, might that be seen as discrimination? :devil:


Mohammaed hasn't been on. eveyone else, Sadam, and Osama included.
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#91 Godeskian

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 09:00 AM

4 people have no died in riots over these cartoons. http://news.bbc.co.u...sia/4684652.stm

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#92 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 09:12 AM

View PostKosh, on Feb 6 2006, 01:51 PM, said:

View PostJulianus, on Feb 4 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

Does anyone know if Mohammed has made an appearance on "South Park?" Jesus has, as has Moses and Satan. If Mohammed has not, might that be seen as discrimination? :devil:


Mohammaed hasn't been on. eveyone else, Sadam, and Osama included.

Actually, he has. On one episode Mohammed teamed up with Jesus and Moses to take on a rival Church founded by David Blaine.  :suspect:
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#93 Omega

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 10:01 AM

Quote

And that's just a few verses from Psalms. Yeah, it's Old Testament, but the Old Testament contains foundational texts for both Christianity and Judaism.

As you said, the verses you quoted are all from the Psalms.  You have to understand what the Psalms are to understand the violence in them.  This isn't God talking.  These are God's people, opressed, in pain, crying out to God for what they see as justice.  CS Lewis addressed these Psalms quite well in his appropriately-titled "Reflections on the Psalms".  I highly recommend reading it.  Along with, y'know, everything else he ever wrote. :)

#94 Cardie

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 11:57 AM

The Old Testament is also a foundational text for Islam.  That's why Judaism, Christianity and Islam are called the "Abrahamic" religions.  The Arabs from whom Muhammed sprung were by tradition said to have descended from Ishmael, Abraham's son by his concubine.

And the OT is a pretty bloody chronicle, in which God does plenty of smiting, either directly or via proxies.

As I said above, the crucial difference is whether any of the adherents of these religions goes beyond its foundational texts from a time of bitter tribal warfare centuries ago to adapt to different views of how humans relate to one another when in conflict.

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#95 Omega

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 12:51 PM

One might say that that's the nature of the New Testament.

#96 liath

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 01:02 PM

We were discussing freedon of speech in my critical thinking lesson today and I think that the conclusion we came to is pertinent to this issue that is:

People wshould have the right to freedom of expression but should not try and offend and should try to be sensitive to other people. Anyone should also be prepared for people to respond to their coments in any way they wish as long as it is lawful.
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#97 G1223

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 01:08 PM

The problem with that is that sometimes offending someone is telling them the truth. Or what passes for it at the time. So if the choice is say nothing which means being seen as giving silent approval. Say the truth which will offend some people. Or Lie to them and keep the illusion going that being critical of the actions ,of a group which claims to be acting in the name of their God, is wrong.

For me. I say tell the truth.
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#98 Balderdash

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 01:11 PM

Fanatical Muslims are not all Muslims.  All Muslims are not fanatics.  Lots of Muslims are poor and are easy pickings for fanatical Muslims.  And "terror" is a tactic not a country that you can declare war on.  

Lets turn things around for a moment and wonder how fanatical Christians would view their prophets or Jesus himself depicted as the Muslim Mohammed was depicted in the political cartoons.  I think political figures are more than fair game but peoples religious icons shouldn't be ridiculed by the western press and in turn making these same poor Muslims even easier pickings for the fanatical ones.  JMHO.

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#99 MuseZack

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 01:16 PM

View PostBalderdash, on Feb 6 2006, 06:11 PM, said:

Fanatical Muslims are not all Muslims.  All Muslims are not fanatics.  Lots of Muslims are poor and are easy pickings for fanatical Muslims.  And "terror" is a tactic not a country that you can declare war on.  

Lets turn things around for a moment and wonder how fanatical Christians would view their prophets or Jesus himself depicted as the Muslim Mohammed was depicted in the political cartoons.  I think political figures are more than fair game but peoples religious icons shouldn't be ridiculed by the western press and in turn making these same poor Muslims even easier pickings for the fanatical ones.  JMHO.

There's certainly a long and rich history of Christian intolerance to blasphemy, but let's get real.  Did the photographer who depicted Kanye West as the crucified Jesus on the cover of Rolling Stone go into hiding for fear of death?  Are Trey Parker and Matt Stone under fatwa for the numerous episodes of South Park that make fun of Jesus and Christianity, including a recent one which depicted a statue of the Virgin Mary bleeding from the rectum and onto the Pope?  No.  A lot of people got offended, wrote letters, a few threatened boycotts, but nothing on the scale of what we've seen int he last few days.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#100 liath

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 01:17 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 6 2006, 06:08 PM, said:

The problem with that is that sometimes offending someone is telling them the truth.

Im not saying that you shouldnt offend people full stop I'm just saying you should try to be sensitive and not try to cause offense for the sake of it.
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Formerly reul-bhuidhinn


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