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Iran Newspaper Plans Holocaust Cartoons

Media Iran Newspaper Holocaust Cartoons Iran

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#21 Anastashia

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 01:07 PM

I do see this in a way as Iranian acknowledgment of the holocaust as fact. Otherwise why would it be worthy of mocking?

In addition, a possible reason for this response? Wasn't Denmark one of the countries where everyone, including the royal family, wore Stars of David as a show of solidarity with their Jewish citizens during the Nazi occupation? So it could certainly could be a dig at the Danes as well as the Israelis.
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#22 QueenTiye

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 01:08 PM

The question is - do they deserve to die along with the corrupt governments (lest we forget - G1223's recommendation was to nuke ?

AND - as those kids get older, aren't they the ones who get to take over the government?  

This week while I was away on business, I got to meet with a Japanese executive from Japan.  Up until recently I had been told that you just can't talk to the Japanese - that the only way to do business with them is in this highly formalized structure, that they Japanese are very closed society, etc., etc., etc.  It was pissing me off - because I need to work with the Japanese group for my job... and I was being told (repeatedly, and from a variety of sources) that it wasn't possible, and that I would cause bad blood to even try.

WELL... suddenly I started getting emails from this Japanese executive, and even a telephone call... not being versed in proper protocol before this phone call, I went ahead and just did my best - very polite, very complimentary, and contrary to whatever advice I would have gotten - very friendly.  That relationship developed to the point that said executive came all the way to the US, at least partially to meet with me and my boss.  From prior business dealings, I had expected an older grey haired man, but no - this was a man about my age - in other words, the next generation.  And - who did he prefer talking to, between me and my boss? Me. Why? Because in being friendly, it was easier for him to understand my english, and easier for him to feel like it was ok to relax a bit... and...

my point is - things change, and people are more important than governments.  If you are angry enough about a government, do something about the government. But I really wonder how people get so comfortable advocating the death of other people who just might be innocent?

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#23 tennyson

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 01:11 PM

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my point is - things change, and people are more important than governments. If you are angry enough about a government, do something about the government. But I really wonder how people get so comfortable advocating the death of other people who just might be innocent?

I don't know. I just find it kind of sad.
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#24 Godeskian

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 01:16 PM

View Posttennyson, on Feb 10 2006, 08:05 PM, said:

I posted an article recently that had some evidence about uranium enrichment and why its only use would be for a bomb a little while ago, I'll go see if I can find it.

If you could that would be good. None of the news reports, or horizon or anything else dealing with Iran has got into the difference in Uranium enrichment. It's mostly been 'PM Blair says they shouldn't get nikes, but Iran says they have the right to Nuclear power, but Blair says they shouldn't have nukes....'

ad nauseum, and oddly enough, I agree with both. I don't want Iran to have nukes, I don't have any objections to them having nuclear power.

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#25 emsparks

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 02:28 PM

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 10 2006, 11:17 AM, said:

So let me get this straight. A Danish newspaper prints cartoons of Mahammad so to "get even" (or prove a point..whatever), they decide to print cartoons about millions of Jews being killed?

Am I missing something here?

With respect yup, you’re missing a little bit of information;
It is notable that the upsurge in violence in some of the poorest and under educated, areas of the Muslin world came six months after the publication of the cartoons in Denmark. It is increasingly notable that said publication in Denmark was not the first time the cartoons where published.

It is further of interest that the president of Iran has called for a cartoon contest depicting the Holocaust in the Iranian press.

Why if Denmark was not the first was Denmark singled out as the flash point. Well history and the Iranian Presidents’ holocaust comments tell us that. Denmark stood alone among nations in it’s attempts to protect, and repatriate its nationals who where victims of the holocaust. Israel has classified Demark as a righteous nation, one of the very few, for the nation wide attempt led by the king to protect the Danish Jewish population.

Near the end of World War Two, the Germans arrested the entire of the Danish civilian police force because they would not participate in rounding up the Jews.

This is no coincident… Six months went by from the printing of the cartoons till the incitement of the protest.

It stands to reason that not being able to go after the United States or Israel right now, such an excuse to go after what is in their view a “Jew” loving nation like Denmark: could not be over looked by the Iranians and the Syrians.

Edited by emsparks, 10 February 2006 - 02:29 PM.

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#26 Eskaminzim

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 02:36 PM

>>So let me get this straight. A Danish newspaper prints cartoons of Mahammad so to "get even" (or prove a point..whatever), they decide to print cartoons about millions of Jews being killed?

Am I missing something here?<<

Yeah, the same brain wiring that says "Ok, a bunch of Saudi Arabians just blew up our World Trade Centers, so lets bomb the crap out of...Iraq!"

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#27 Lin731

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 02:45 PM

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Yeah, the same brain wiring that says "Ok, a bunch of Saudi Arabians just blew up our World Trade Centers, so lets bomb the crap out of...Iraq!"

THANK YOU Eska! I've been saying that since the evasion. I guess if Iran attacks us we should expect and invasion and occupation of Greenland to follow. There's ALOT of screwed up wiring in the world isn't there?
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#28 G1223

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 02:31 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Feb 10 2006, 12:32 PM, said:

So you automatically assume the goverment of Iran is lying when they say they want nuclear power, and that legally they have a right to that?

Well let's see.... Iran cannot help but support terrorist groups. They give aid and shelter to them. The aid is money and weapons. Oh and it has said it desires to see the death of all Jews in Israel. Let's give them the means to make that happen. Then after Iran makes their dreams come true we can beg them to try and be civilized and live within community of nations.

Or you hold the club over their head and make them prove they want to act like civilized nation. Why are we suppose to assume they are when they prove time and time and time and time again that they are not going to follow the rules.
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#29 tennyson

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 02:53 AM

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If you could that would be good. None of the news reports, or horizon or anything else dealing with Iran has got into the difference in Uranium enrichment. It's mostly been 'PM Blair says they shouldn't get nikes, but Iran says they have the right to Nuclear power, but Blair says they shouldn't have nukes....'

ad nauseum, and oddly enough, I agree with both. I don't want Iran to have nukes, I don't have any objections to them having nuclear power.

Hi Godeskain, here's the link to Fred Kaplan's article I linked to ealier
http://www.slate.com/id/2134497/

in Kaplan's Article is a link to the PDF file that has David Albright of the Institute for Science and International Security's report on Iranian nuclear enrichment. The key fact is that making these massive cascades of centrifuges is a hallmark of making weapons grade material since you only need a very few to enrich uranium enough to serve as reactor fuel. Reactor fuel only has between 5 and ten percent of Uranium-235 while weapons grade material is more than 90 percent Uranium-235. If they just wanted reactor fuel then they wouldn't have tried to make these thousand centrifuge cascades whose only purpose is enriching uranium to a higher level than needed for reactor fuel. Russia has also offered to enrich the uranium to reactor fuel levels for the Iranians so they don't have to go to the expense of enriching it themselves and so far they have refused to take the offer.
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#30 Chakotay

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 03:22 AM

Huh. Free speech.

So long as the anti-holocaust stuff doesn't get reprinted in Austria, where it will be breaking the law, they can do as they please in their own papers.
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#31 tennyson

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 03:26 AM

No such free speech right exists in Iran. A host of independent and/or critical to the government newspapers and journalists were shutdown or jailed in the late 1990s/ early 2000s. What gets printed in official Iranian newspapers is what the government of Iran allows thier media to print.

Edited by tennyson, 11 February 2006 - 03:27 AM.

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#32 Godeskian

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 04:11 AM

I'm actually on my way out, but G, I will return to respond later.

View Posttennyson, on Feb 11 2006, 09:53 AM, said:

Hi Godeskain, here's the link to Fred Kaplan's article I linked to ealier
http://www.slate.com/id/2134497/

Thanks, I'll read this when I get back.

Quote

The key fact is that making these massive cascades of centrifuges is a hallmark of making weapons grade material since you only need a very few to enrich uranium enough to serve as reactor fuel.

Fair enough. I take it there would be no reasonable need for huge stocks of U-235 unless one was planning to make weapons.

Quote

Russia has also offered to enrich the uranium to reactor fuel levels for the Iranians so they don't have to go to the expense of enriching it themselves and so far they have refused to take the offer.

I can understand that. The one thing that seems to be very strong from the Iranians throughout this is that they do not, under any circumstances want to be dependant for fuel on another country. I don't see why Russia would be exempt from that desire not to be at the mercy of a foreign power for fuel, nor particularly wanting to use up your limited (though substantial in volume) natural fuel reserves.

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#33 Captain Jack

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 04:42 AM

Angry b*stards don't know when to quit.  Not denying that the Danish artist did a really stupid thing, but this one TOPS it.  Knock it off over there and learn how to live in peace.  I know, falling on deaf ears...
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#34 G1223

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 10:55 AM

Why should they? They will have the bomb. They can kill the evil state of Israel. To them this is a good thing. Why people try to make it sound like this is something you can talk the guy out of doing.

We have this idea that we can all just get along and that by giving Iran what it wants short of the bomb is going to appease them and that only leaves you in a position where you are dealing with these people from a position of weakenss.
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#35 tennyson

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 01:51 PM

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I take it there would be no reasonable need for huge stocks of U-235 unless one was planning to make weapons.

As far as I know the only uses of the U-235 isotope are reactor fuel and bombs. It's too toxic for medical uses or as a radioactive tracer and they wouldn't need anything like the enrichment they are going for with reactor fuel.
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#36 BklnScott

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 02:22 PM

View PostCyncie, on Feb 10 2006, 11:35 AM, said:

View PostLover of Purple, on Feb 10 2006, 11:17 AM, said:

So let me get this straight. A Danish newspaper prints cartoons of Mahammad so to "get even" (or prove a point..whatever), they decide to print cartoons about millions of Jews being killed?

Am I missing something here?

Actually, I think its rather telling that instead of retaliating against those who actually published the cartoon, they chose to "retaliate" against Israel, who, as far as I can see, has nothing to do with this.

And, of course, it doesn't even enter anybody's mind that any Jews, no matter how reactionary in their politics, might respond by inciting mobs to go torch embassies.  After all, they live with this kind of rhetorical demonization on a daily basis.  (My favorite is the "blood libel" that takes over the Muslim media every Passover--where it is calmly explained that Jews kill and drain the blood from Arab and gentile children to protect themselves from the Angel of Death).  

View PostG1223, on Feb 10 2006, 12:19 PM, said:

And another decade of hearing how these young people will someday get rid of their fundmentalist government. Is that going to be in this century or the lifetime of someone born today?

You have a group of men who want to get the bomb so they can threaten Israel. They are not going to listen to reason. They will react to sactions like it's a threat to their well being. Then promise to sell their bombs to terrorists if the sanctions are put in place. And Elected a Hostage taker as President.

It would be mutually assured destruction, a doctrine that has worked for decades.  I can't imagine that the Iranians would want to destroy Israel at the cost of their own survival.  

Nobody wants Iran to get the bomb, but there seems to be very little we can do to prevent it without committing preemptive genocide, which--yes--would make us worse than them.

Edited by _ph, 11 February 2006 - 02:23 PM.

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#37 G1223

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 05:34 PM

Well since we can do nothing about it I guess we need to just do nothing. Let them attack Israel and go "Oh Well I guess we should have expected you to be nice guys. Maybe we could have tea and cookies while we discuss you not slaughtering all the jewish survivors."

Then after they act like the animals they are proving to be we can have a second round of discussions about how we cannot defend Europe and then after giving away the Rhineland we can say we did not appease the second comming of Hitler.


Bluntly the time for kind words should be finished and maybe time for kind words and a gun is here. Better to take out a proven terrorist supporter who wants to be a nuclear power than yammer on and on till we are discussing the terms for our surrender.
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#38 veganmom

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 02:33 PM

Two random thoughts:
1) What if they printed Holocaust cartoons and nobody cared? Or, if the rest of the world had a "civilized" response? Those cartoons aren't going to be any worse than cartoons Arab newspapers already print. It's like trolls. I'd love to hear the crickets...
2) Someone called or e-mailed in to the BBC News Hour this morning and reminded people that Muslims were killed in the Holocaust, too. If this is true, are they celebrating or mocking the death of Muslims at the hands of Nazis and others?

#39 BklnScott

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 11:16 AM

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LAHORE, Pakistan - Thousands of protesters rampaged through two cities Tuesday, storming into a diplomatic district and torching Western businesses and a provincial assembly in Pakistan's worst violence against the Prophet Muhammad drawings, officials said. At least two people were killed and 11 injured.

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Security forces fired into the air as they struggled to contain the unrest in the eastern city of Lahore, where protesters burned down four buildings housing a hotel, two banks, a KFC restaurant and the office of a Norwegian cell phone company, Telenor.

U.S. and British embassy staffers were confined to their compounds until police dispersed the protesters, some of whom chanted, "Death to America!"

Yeah--this is really about cartoons.

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#40 Rhea

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 12:11 PM

View Postveganmom, on Feb 13 2006, 11:33 AM, said:

Two random thoughts:
1) What if they printed Holocaust cartoons and nobody cared? Or, if the rest of the world had a "civilized" response? Those cartoons aren't going to be any worse than cartoons Arab newspapers already print. It's like trolls. I'd love to hear the crickets...
2) Someone called or e-mailed in to the BBC News Hour this morning and reminded people that Muslims were killed in the Holocaust, too. If this is true, are they celebrating or mocking the death of Muslims at the hands of Nazis and others?


My objection is that in one case the slaughterers are being depicted and in the other case you would be poking fun at the slaughtered.

If extremists Muslims want not be characterized as butchers they should stop acting like butchers. It's not as if it's just Mulsim terrorists - they slaughter each other, too.

Edited by Rhea, 14 February 2006 - 12:12 PM.

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