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GW Bush Criticism

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#1 Rhea

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 03:42 PM

I want my country back. I want Bush gone. I think McGovern's right, and George W. Bush is a seriously scary guy. You take a man of mediocre intelligence, set him up in a position of power, feed him exactly what he wants to hear, while other corrupt people go about the dirty work of running the country. I think George Bush is seriously delusional. He sees a country that's ticking along just fine while the poor get poorer and the rich get richer and kids are dying every day for his delusions.

We have homeland security, which Congress allowed to be set up with virtually no checks on its power - and that's scary enough. We have a war that should never have been started and a war which is about to start (I just pray to God he gets out of office before he can start a unilateral war against Iran - I don't want any more of our kids to die needlessly). We have an unprecedented disaster that has been more poorly handled than any in the history of this country. He keeps slipping things quietly into legislation that most of us don't want, hoping nobody will notice.  He's obsessed with placating his right-wing religious supporters - first trying to get the amendment forbidding homosexual marriages passed and now skewing the Federal grant process to favor religious organizations.

There's an idiot running the country, and I say a prayer every night that he gets out of office before he manages to get us into something else we can't get out of. He scares the absolute bejeezus out of me - and more so every day.
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#2 waterpanther

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 04:50 PM

George II has  me pining for the good old days when Poppy was Prez and I prayed daily for his health because the idea of Dan Quayle as President was just too, too scary. . ..  And Quayle is just dumb, not ignorant, vicious, power-drunk and dumb.
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#3 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 04:56 PM

^^Like his actions or not there should be one lesson the left and everyone against him should have learned about Bush by now.  The man is not an idiot and he has managed to out maneuver the left and his opposition at every turn for the past 6 years.  He may have a poor grasp of the English language but that hardly qualifies someone as an idiot.  If anything a good chunk of the reason why Bush bullies through half of what he wants is because his opposition discounts him as a simpleton.  Many people discounted Harry Truman (greater President than Bush) as a simpleton too but he managed to accomplish what he wanted more times than he didn’t.  

The opposition to Bush should consider how it makes them look when they state that Bush is an idiot and a simpleton when the general public then considers the fact that Bush has managed to outwit, outmaneuver, or sneak past these same people for the past 6 years.  Bush may not have anywhere near a firm command of the English language and he probably plays up the common man idiot image for PR reasons but discounting him as an idiot will only get you burned again.  At this rate despite their hopes over the polling figures I’m seriously wondering if the Democrats are going to get burned again for using the same unimaginative approach because they think their opposition is made up of idiots.

Until the Democrats realize that they aren’t facing idiots they are going to keep losing unless they start being more creative.   Myself I hope they fall apart and  take down the Neocons down with them.

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 11 February 2006 - 04:57 PM.

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#4 waterpanther

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 05:15 PM

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The opposition to Bush should consider how it makes them look when they state that Bush is an idiot and a simpleton when the general public then considers the fact that Bush has managed to outwit, outmaneuver, or sneak past these same people for the past 6 years

It is quite possible to be both stupid and sly; most bullies are.   You are ignoring the obvious fact that no Presidency is a solo performance, and Bush has more back-up than most in his father and his father's associates.  If you look at the man's history, he's never made a success of anything on his own; his businesses were a series of unmitigated failures.  Poppy and Poppy's buddies--and folks who wanted to buy access to Poppy--bailed him out.  Whether they can bail  him out of his current messes, though, is becoming more and more questionable.
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#5 Spectacles

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 05:48 PM

I don't know if Bush is smart or not, but I do know how Rhea feels. I thought pretty much the same thing about the state of the country after reading the paper this morning. It seems that every day brings another horror--mainly in the form of something grossly mismanaged.

Early defectors from the Bush Administration, years ago, said that the people in charge (primarily Cheney and Rove and Bush himself) govern politically-smart, but policy-foolish. They've been good at selling their wares, but their wares are usually defective because it's such a closed circle--and because there is little serious policy review that involves dissent. And we and future generations, unfortunately, are paying the price.

I don't think you'll see the Democrats in the political establishment trying to win by claiming Bush is an idiot. But they do have a good point about the corruption and mismanagement and general ineptitude of the powers that be these days. Whether they can do any better, I don't know. But we sure need someone to do better.

I really think that the entire political process is so corrupted that it attracts self-serving people. Or if they weren't self-serving to begin with, many become that way when they get into office.

In short, I'm feeling more pessimistic about this country and our democracy than ever before.

Bleah.
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#6 Call Me Robin

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 05:52 PM

View Postwaterpanther, on Feb 11 2006, 10:15 PM, said:

Quote

The opposition to Bush should consider how it makes them look when they state that Bush is an idiot and a simpleton when the general public then considers the fact that Bush has managed to outwit, outmaneuver, or sneak past these same people for the past 6 years

It is quite possible to be both stupid and sly; most bullies are.   You are ignoring the obvious fact that no Presidency is a solo performance, and Bush has more back-up than most in his father and his father's associates.  If you look at the man's history, he's never made a success of anything on his own; his businesses were a series of unmitigated failures.  Poppy and Poppy's buddies--and folks who wanted to buy access to Poppy--bailed him out.  Whether they can bail  him out of his current messes, though, is becoming more and more questionable.

Also, Bush has an ace in the hole: September 11.  If it weren't for that, he would be a one-term president.  I don't think he's sly; I think his handlers, led by Rove and Cheney, are sly.  Liberals and principled conservatives have underestimated the neocons.  The upshot is that the GOP has been hijacked by some of the most repulsive people ever to hold office.

The problem with the Democrats is that they've tried for too long to be GOP lite.  I don't like Ted Kennedy, but I have to agree with his statement that the country doesn't need two Republican parties.  It isn't that the Democrats dismissed Bush as a simpleton; it's that they tried too hard to make nice with him instead of acting like a real opposition party.
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#7 Cait

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 06:03 PM

View PostCall Me Robin, on Feb 11 2006, 02:52 PM, said:

It isn't that the Democrats dismissed Bush as a simpleton; it's that they tried too hard to make nice with him instead of acting like a real opposition party.


I have to agree here.  I think the Dems have taken a "wait and see" attitude instead of speaking for the people they represent [Yes, a novel concept I know], and of course they are trying to hold on to the seats they now have.  

It's a dangerous way to attack the problem.  No one who agrees with Bush et al. is going to care one iota about any Dems, and the people who need their voice of dissent to be represented in Congress are instead victims of Dems who want to keep their jobs.  They become part of a 'lame duck' political party.

Time for Dems to step up to the plate and OPPOSE the Administration, even if it appears it will cost them.  Someone has to speak up.

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Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
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Rule#6: Remember the future.

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#8 waterpanther

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 06:13 PM

What Cait said.  

We saw on the Alito cloture vote just exactly how many Dems have the guts to oppose George II.  Had all those who voted against confirmation also voted against cloture, he could have been stopped.  It's time for the DLC to Grow. An. Effin' Spine.

Or get out of the way of those who already have one.
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#9 Captain Jack

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 06:20 PM

This is why it is important to VOTE!!!

VOTE in 2008!  And pray that we will have a decent candidate to vote for.  Lord help us, we need one.
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#10 emsparks

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 06:25 PM

View PostSpidey, on Feb 11 2006, 06:20 PM, said:

This is why it is important to VOTE!!!

VOTE in 2008!  And pray that we will have a decent candidate to vote for.  Lord help us, we need one.

Meaning no disrespect to you but Give me a Break...

Since the demise of big unions, the Democratic Party is taking their money and orders from the same society sector as the Republicans, the business community. Which is why we have too parties, the republicans and republican light.

If I had where with all I would start a new union, “The Union for the Unemployed, Under Employed, Retired, and Disabled.”

Some of the planks are as followed.

Iraq,
I would finish the war. For reasons of depressed employment and the rotation of troops in Iraq, I would increase the size of the military. I am also concerned about Iran, China and to some degree Russia.

International trade.
I would terminate all treaties where our rights are not being enforced.

Lock down the boarders…

Social Security.
I would tell the truth about the social security trust fund, how numerous administrations took money out of the fund to pay down the national debt. I would support a constitutional amendment to lock the box, mandating that the funds in the trust fund can only be used to pay benefits. I would make it an all in fund, removing any caps, and special exceptions from the FICA taxes.

Retirement accounts.
All retirement amounts would deposit into federal locked and controlled bank accounts, with all moneys, whether from deposits or interest, are the property of the depositors of said funds. No more corporate raiding of retirement accounts.

Well that’s some of what I would do.
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#11 tennyson

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 10:23 PM

Quote

We have a war that should never have been started and a war which is about to start (I just pray to God he gets out of office before he can start a unilateral war against Iran - I don't want any more of our kids to die needlessly).
Rhea you are mistaken,
http://www.slate.com/id/2134497/

Quote

So, again, what is to be done? First, whatever we end up doing, it is useful that in this confrontation (unlike the prelude to Iraq), the other major powers and the international bodies at least agree with the basic facts and with the judgment that these facts pose a threat. It was laudable, even cheering, when the Europeans turned down the Iranians' request this week to go back to the table for more talks. The request came shortly after the Iranians resumed their uranium-enrichment program; the Europeans (who until recently seemed to value negotiations above all else) replied that, until the enrichment was halted, there was nothing to talk about.
The US has had a broad and deep well of international support for its efforts at diplomacy and somehow resolving this situation. Even if war comes which I find in no way garanteed it would be by no means any sort of unilateral conflict, only involving the US.
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#12 G1223

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 10:37 PM

So Rhea I gather it would be better to talk and talk and talk and then let Iran Nuke Israel than do anything to stop their nuclear program. I mean let's be honest do you think those loons are going to stop now that they are close to get them?  


I am sure they will go into long and pointless talks meanwhile making a few dozen warheads and then after Israel is nuked we can enter into discussions with them to not threaten other nations. And more dsicussions and finally after we surrender we can see that maybe standing up to bullies and thugs is better than endless pointless debate. Espically when the other side is not going to enter into real talks unless they are afraid of what will be done to them if they do not talk.
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#13 Lin731

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:17 AM

Quote

So Rhea I gather it would be better to talk and talk and talk and then let Iran Nuke Israel than do anything to stop their nuclear program. I mean let's be honest do you think those loons are going to stop now that they are close to get them?

No I think Rhea's saying it would be better if we had a PRESIDENT instead of a wannabe King who thinks laws are meant to be mangled or ignored entirely when it suits him.
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#14 offworlder

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 04:36 AM

all right now wait a minute - what's all this They'll Nuke Israel stuff Im reading on here for two weeks and now in this thread too?

those 'loons' are no loons, they know exactly what they're doing with all this rhetoric and posturing and agenda-izing, just like the NKor .... getting their positions seen by their own people and getting their agendas on the table with the EuNorthAm complex ........ no loons, no fools ............. don't you really think someone that smart and knowledgable about how small countries with few friends, like the NKor can score rhetoric points and get on the scoreboard ... is smart enought to realize that if you really do nuke Israel, there are about ten nations that won't sit for Israel being nuked and there you have your world war? c'mon, wake up - heck USA invaded Saddam and he never nuked anybody, what would USA feel like doing if someone DID nuke somebody?

they want someone to Think they'll nuke, just like NK want someone to Think they will, just like China want us to Think they'll hit Taiwan if the ultimate Rubicon is crossed- just like Israel has declared to the whole freakin world they will retaliate with ultimate force if attacked by anyone, including nuke trade.

if you have something and others know you won't use it it's like not having it, and they want to have it, and they'll get it; and why would they who have no big stick not want to carry a big stick? Iran and NK see how those with big sticks get something when international bargaining's goin down. When did the Soviet Union ever tell NATO they would NOT use nuke weapons, 'we just have them for show and for fun?'

Now enough nuke talk, back to this thread - yes, I too feel oft times that my nation has been highjacked :( I think after seeing Bush in interviews like when that cbs guy followed him around White House and footpaths chatting, that I could like the guy, yet I do NOT trust his motives and actions, and I'm getting to the point of Hating his 'this administration' cronies.
:ninja:

Edited by offworlder, 12 February 2006 - 04:40 AM.

"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#15 G1223

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 08:29 AM

I actually feel we are not hijacked. I do feel that we have the former hijackers crying so loudly that they are not in charge. I feel that the Democratic party will say anything to get power including lie to get there. I feel that the media is a party to it. Their reporters do not report news unless they can spin it towards their political agenda.  

But hey I felt Al Gore was a theif and John Kerry a liar. Based on their voting for things before voting against them.
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#16 Spectacles

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 09:54 AM

Quote

G: I feel that the Democratic party will say anything to get power including lie to get there.

And the Republicans never lie?
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#17 waterpanther

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 10:19 AM

Quote

heck USA invaded Saddam and he never nuked anybody

Ding!  Ding!  Ding!  We have a winner!

The lids came off the North Korean and Iranian nuke programs when Bush linked them to Iraq in "the axis of evil" and invaded the latter.  The message there was that if you have the means to fight back effectively, you will not be invaded.  Of course they went back to work on their weapons programs. Only an idiot would not have resumed weapons development under those conditions, and only an idiot would have expected them not to.
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#18 Lin731

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:46 PM

Quote

I actually feel we are not hijacked. I do feel that we have the former hijackers crying so loudly that they are not in charge.

You mean like the GOP did for the umpteen years they didn't control things? Whining about the "liberal media", whining about those nasty, corrupt Dems, whining and investigating every time Bill Clinton Hiccuped or scratched his rearend. The GOP temper tantrum/witchhunt inspired by their anger over losing control of the Executive Branch.  THAT'S when I stopped voting for Republicans. Up to that point, I actually voted GOP more often then DEM but I was completely disgusted and turned off by the tactics the GOP had (and still has) in play, I stopped voting for them. So for myself (and others I know as well) I don't have any DNC decoder ring and no one showed me the secret handshake. For ME (and many others) it's about REAL CONCERN FOR THE COUNTRY.

Quote

I feel that the Democratic party will say anything to get power including lie to get there. I feel that the media is a party to it. Their reporters do not report news unless they can spin it towards their political agenda.

Oh you mean like the GOP did with Max Cleland or Kerry or John Murtha and even their own party member McCain? It's not enough to disagree on politics or policy, heck no! Let's completely smear the PERSON. Let's call Cleland (a triple amputee) a coward, unpatriotic. Let's wear Purple Heart bandaids to the RNC convention to insult Kerry's service, while nudging the swiftboaters to run ads that turned out to be BS. Let's even attempt to smear Dem (and former Marine Corps colonel and Nam vet) who multiple times in the past has supported GOP policy by questioning his service to his country. Let's run a whisper campaign against McCain questioning his mental fitness and claiming his has a bi racial baby. No lies or spin there eh G?

Quote

But hey I felt Al Gore was a theif and John Kerry a liar. Based on their voting for things before voting against them.

Ahhh...back to that simplistic, soundbyte political strategy. Don't believe every talking point or political ad.

Ominous Voice Over

Quote

John Kerry voted to raise your taxes over 100 times

Nevermind how many years he's been a Senator or the fact that he's opposed them 5000 times.

Quote

Kerry's soft on defense, he voted against (the latest and greatest new weapon).

Nevermind that he voted against it because there was X millions in Pentagon Pork thrown into the bill that would recieve zero oversight as to how that money would be spent.

The same can be applied btw to Bush...He was against a 911 commission before he was FOR it. He was against offering a carrot to North Korea before he was for it. He was against leakers before he was for them. Bush as flip flopped more than a flapjack at the IHOP.

Edited by Lin731, 12 February 2006 - 12:50 PM.

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#19 Omega

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:57 PM

Our political parties no longer have core beliefs. They exist to perpetuate themselves and the occupations of their elected officials.  Unless some candidate gets my attention, next election I'm voting for myself.  I don't care if they say they'll destroy my ballot because I'm not a pre-approved write-in.  If anyone else would care to vote for some random guy as a form of protest, feel free to read though my political position statement, which I wrote up some time ago.  It was for a different context, and has some minor factual errors in it, but you'll have the general idea. :)

#20 Rhea

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:58 PM

View Posttennyson, on Feb 11 2006, 07:23 PM, said:

Quote

We have a war that should never have been started and a war which is about to start (I just pray to God he gets out of office before he can start a unilateral war against Iran - I don't want any more of our kids to die needlessly).
Rhea you are mistaken,
http://www.slate.com/id/2134497/

Quote

So, again, what is to be done? First, whatever we end up doing, it is useful that in this confrontation (unlike the prelude to Iraq), the other major powers and the international bodies at least agree with the basic facts and with the judgment that these facts pose a threat. It was laudable, even cheering, when the Europeans turned down the Iranians' request this week to go back to the table for more talks. The request came shortly after the Iranians resumed their uranium-enrichment program; the Europeans (who until recently seemed to value negotiations above all else) replied that, until the enrichment was halted, there was nothing to talk about.
The US has had a broad and deep well of international support for its efforts at diplomacy and somehow resolving this situation. Even if war comes which I find in no way garanteed it would be by no means any sort of unilateral conflict, only involving the US.


No, I'm not mistaken.

The U.S. refused to work through the U.N. in Iraq, even though the process was working. Bush took off on his own with a few allies and started a unilateral war (and just for you, C.J., I'll specify a war that did not go through the U.N. and was paid for primarily with our money - and don't bother enumerating those allies, since most have fallen by the wayside and the rest want out) that our country is paying for with money we don't have and the bodies, both dead and maimed, of our own kids.

Now it starts all over again. What assurance do we have that Dubya is not going to do the same thing again, make nice with the U.N. as long as it suits him, then decide things aren't moving fast enough and go off on his own, leaving our country and our dead to pay his price.

Do you have any idea what this useless and unnecessary war has cost our kids? The maiming of the survivors makes Viet Nam look like child's play. These kids are losing arms legs, eyes, sufffering profound head injuries that would have killed them except for body armor,  and suffering 10-20 surgeries just off the plate so that Dubya gets to feel good.

And what did it get us in the end? We invaded a country that had zippo, and we liberated a bunch of people that hate our guts and can't wait till we leave so they can set up a theocracy every bit as oppressive as Saddam ever thought about being. We already have proof that they've done things in the short time they've been in charge that are every bit as bad as Saddam did.

And we've paid for it with a record national debt, and worst of all, with our kids.

I saw firsthand what Viet Nam did to my contemporaries, and I guarantee you that working in wards with vets who survived Viet Nam would have made your blood run cold. And what they suffered was nothing compared to the devastation caused by body armor. Kids are surviving, due to body armor, with more profound maiming than ever before.

So what happens if Dubya decides to do it again?

I feel free to call him an idiot, because he is an idiot. He thinks the war in Iraq was a resounding success, and he doesn't appear capable of learning from his mistakes. That makes him an idiot in my book. What would it take to make him an idiot in your book?
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH



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