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Total smoking ban in pubs and clubs in the UK

Smoking UK Pubs UK Clubs< Smoking ban

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#1 Godeskian

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 05:22 AM

http://news.bbc.co.u...ics/4714992.stm

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Health campaigners have welcomed a vote paving the way for a ban on smoking in all pubs, clubs and restaurants in England from the summer of 2007.

MPs voted on Tuesday by a margin of 200 votes to impose a ban on smoking in all enclosed spaces, despite months of wrangling over the issue.

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The total ban will extend to all enclosed areas except private homes, residential care homes, hospitals, prisons and hotel bedrooms.

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Cancer Research UK said it was the biggest step forward in public health for half a century while the British Heart Foundation described the decision as "the best possible Valentine's gift from MPs to bar workers".

I'll freely admit to being absolutely stunned that the vote was carried by such a large margin. Given the links between tobacco firms and any number of MP's I had expected this to be a sqeaker, but a margin of 200 is a huge amount.

Edited by Godeskian, 15 February 2006 - 05:24 AM.

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#2 Chakoteya

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:01 AM

Hallelujah! About flipping time too, and no silly fudging around.

Did you hear the interview on Radio 4 with the pro-smoking MP this morning? He was saying that after listening to all the arguments from the Doctors about smoke drift in air currents and stuff, and then voting and going home to hear his young daughter's opinion on how his clothes smelt, that the 'right to smoke' thing was starting to wear a bit thin. And today was the first day he can remember that he didn't light up as soon as he got up.
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#3 Fragsta

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:33 AM

*breathes the fresh air*

There should, perhaps, be smokers' bars though...maybe.
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#4 Godeskian

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:40 AM

Apparently the House of Commons bar will be exempt, does that count?

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#5 G1223

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:58 AM

Smoke Nazi's win again. Do not let the free market decide things lets make it so that a minoritiy gets to tell everyone how to think and behave. I mean you think it will stop there. Next up fatty foods. No more beer in public houses as booze causes a lot of deaths. No doing the things we now know are bad for you.  Got to love it the State Nanny is here to save you from the horrors of having fun.



View PostFragsta, on Feb 15 2006, 08:33 AM, said:

*breathes the fresh air*

There should, perhaps, be smokers' bars though...maybe.


Watch out the car exhust you might inhale has more things in it that a cig. You cannot have smokers' bars people who want clean air might want to go in there and you cannot endanger their well being. See this is the police state where the health nuts win.
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#6 Godeskian

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 10:15 AM

View PostG1223, on Feb 15 2006, 04:58 PM, said:

Smoke Nazi's win again.

Thanks, it's been at least four threads since someone called me a Nazi.

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Do not let the free market decide things lets make it so that a minoritiy gets to tell everyone how to think and behave.

So we should allow anyone to do anything which is harmfull to others just because of free market economics? Now that's just taking capitalism way to far.

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Next up fatty foods. No more beer in public houses as booze causes a lot of deaths. No doing the things we now know are bad for you.

(fyi, the you in the next two paragraphs is a generic you and not pointed towards any specific poster)

Not quite. The ban was passed not because smoking is bad for you but because smoking is also bad for everyone else near you.

I'm totally in support of people doing whatever they want to themselves, but your right to do that ends at my personal space. You do not have the right to make my life miserable, to make my clothes smell, or to trigger my asthma for your passtime.

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See this is the police state where the health nuts win.

:howling: I love the way you make health seem like a bad thing.

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#7 G1223

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 10:28 AM

Oh then we had beeter keep people from smoking at home as well. I mean if you rent a place the smoke might effect the others who live in the building. And when you move out the lingering effects of the EVIL smoker will come and get the new folks moving in.eeeewwwww :ghostface:

ANd if you have kids at home you are endangering them and we cannot allow that. We must keep the kids safe so support a ban on smoking at home. But wait we must keep people from using pot after all it is a form of smoking. I guess those clubs will have to accept in those that just want to smoke. Oh but that type of smoking is good smoking. Where as cigarettes are just bad.

Must be nice to make a minority group a victim for everyone to kick and not be seen as two faced.
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#8 Rhea

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 10:34 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Feb 15 2006, 07:15 AM, said:

View PostG1223, on Feb 15 2006, 04:58 PM, said:

Smoke Nazi's win again.

Thanks, it's been at least four threads since someone called me a Nazi.

:howling: I love the way you make health seem like a bad thing.


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#9 Godeskian

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 10:44 AM

View PostG1223, on Feb 15 2006, 05:28 PM, said:

I mean if you rent a place the smoke might effect the others who live in the building. And when you move out the lingering effects of the EVIL smoker will come and get the new folks moving in.

Actually yes. I'm an accredited landlord and one of the rules for my properties is No smoking. Not in the house, not on the grounds.

It's not about smokers being evil, it's about the fact that five people will be living in the house, and if only one of them is a smoker they will ALL have to live with the smell of smoke. That's the part that you seem unwilling to accept that a smoker is not just affecting themselves, they affect everything around them as well.

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ANd if you have kids at home you are endangering them and we cannot allow that.

You are talking to someone whose dad smoked at home, but who always respected my request for him not to smoke in my room. It was his house, and I respected his right to smoke, but at the same time it wasn't something I liked.

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But wait we must keep people from using pot after all it is a form of smoking.

Yes actually. I would support a smoking ban that includes pot, and cigars and pipes as this one does incidentally. I wonder have you read it? What I object against is people being hypocritical and saying that pot is bad for you, but feel free to smoke tobacco.

Almost every western nation has outlawed pot while allowing people to smoke cigarette's, cigars and pipes anywhere they wanted.  You want to talk about being two-faced? the last four decades have been two-faced in that regard.

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#10 G1223

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:03 AM

Yes you made such rules but the state must protect everyone so they must ban smoking in all homes. That way you will not be effected going into someone else home.

What I am seeing is the state playing Nanny and that is a job it has never been very good at. I see it as going out of the way to punish a minority group. If there are clubs that want to ban smoking fine those are what THEY want to do. This law takes that choice from them and anyone who might want to allow smoking in their club.
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#11 Godeskian

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:11 AM

View PostG1223, on Feb 15 2006, 06:03 PM, said:

Yes you made such rules but the state must protect everyone so they must ban smoking in all homes. That way you will not be effected going into someone else home.

You've obviously never read any british lawbooks have you. The state is not required to protect everyone from everything. However the state does have a duty to protect one person from a second if the second person is doing harm to the first one.

Even the US has laws to stop one person from hurting another.

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I see it as going out of the way to punish a minority group.

Sorry you feel that way, but given that I have been punished my entire life for the crime of having Asthma by smokers who don't realise or don't care that there smoke both carries and lingers, I can't say I feel very bad for them.

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This law takes that choice from them and anyone who might want to allow smoking in their club.

Yes it does, but as i've said before, your right to do what you want ends at my personal space. You want to smoke, that's fine, but here's the catch. You cannot, not won't but physically CANNOT smoke without contaminating the surrounding area.

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#12 woody000

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:14 AM

As soon as someone's stupidity starts to affect me, my sympathy disappears. They can ban smoking all together, wouldn't bother me one jot.

Edited by woody000, 15 February 2006 - 11:14 AM.


#13 G1223

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:24 AM

I have my own medical issues but I do not let them keep me from going where I want to go. Nor do I try to place limits on what others do as long as it's legal.  This law is another move to be PC and I think that the smokers should get toghere and be a vocal group that lobbies to vote the folks out that supported this idea.

View Postwoody000, on Feb 15 2006, 11:14 AM, said:

As soon as someone's stupidity starts to affect me, my sympathy disappears. They can ban smoking all together, wouldn't bother me one jot.


Then maybe we could ban eating fatty food they are bad for us. Then maybe drinking coffee and soda due to caffine and then anything but pure clean water. Yes we must make the word safe so we dare not get hurt by life as it happens.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

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#14 woody000

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:29 AM

I technically said I wouldn't care if they banned smoking, not that it's the best (or right) thing.

If I eat fatty foods, it doesn't have an effect on other people's health.

Edited by woody000, 15 February 2006 - 11:29 AM.


#15 Hawkeye

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:31 AM

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Then maybe we could ban eating fatty food they are bad for us. Then maybe drinking coffee and soda due to caffine and then anything but pure clean water.

None of these things are likely to be banned because if you eat fatty food or drink coffee, you're only affecting yourself. Smoking, as has been pointed out several times, affects others around you.
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#16 kdalton_69

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:33 AM

Okay, normally I lurk on this board for the most part, but here goes.

Smokers are not bad people. They're addicted to nicotine, a chemical for which there has been proven no positive use, except as pesticide (it was the world's first).

The tobacco industry is a rogue industry that should've been reigned in long ago but hasn't due to its deep pockets which buy it favors in the halls of legislative bodies around the world -- blood money paid by the suffering and death of millions, who, of their own accord, took up an addiction whose real face was hidden by decades of industry deceit.  Most smokers want to quit, and can't.  Most have to attempt multiple times to quit.

That being said, secondhand smoke is a proven cause of disease and death in nonsmokers.  There are over 100 peer-reviewed, scientifically valid studies proving it.  The jury isn't still out, as the industry claims.

The people that have led the fight on this aren't Nazis (that's always a laugh, equating people who want to stop death from secondhand smoke to people who led the greatest genocide the world has ever seen) and are not whack-job liberals bent on taking everyone's rights.  

They're the public health community -- you know, the people who helped eliminate polio and smallpox, reduce former pandemic childhood illnesses to stories we now tell our kids about why it's important to get vaccinated, and who arrived at the conclusion that we should eliminate lead from paint and gasoline so our kids wouldn't become stunted idiots.   They're also the ones who inspect restaurants for little things like making sure the coolers are actually cooling the food and making sure drinking water is safe.

No one is asking these people to stop smoking or trying to come into their homes to take their cigarettes at gunpoint.  They are simply asked to restrain themselves from smoking in public places where nonsmokers might be harmed.  When's the last time anyone went to a restaurant or pub because it's a good place to smoke????

Edited by kdalton_69, 15 February 2006 - 11:34 AM.


#17 Themis

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:35 AM

Yay - if this passes, I can safely go to pubs in the UK (as I can to bars and restaurants in California and Georgia and select other parts of the States.)

This part confuses me:  

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The total ban will extend to all enclosed areas except private homes, residential care homes, hospitals, prisons and hotel bedrooms.


Except HOSPITALS???  Residential care homes??  Two places where health concerns ought to override everything else and where smoking should be banned in the first place??

The States has one expensive hotel chain that is nonsmoking and most have nonesmoking rooms and/or floors.  I'm allergic to tobacco smoke (don't particularly mind the smoke from marijuana...) and hate the stink, so I'm more than happy to see smokers putting on their winter coats and going out in the cold to work on their cancer.  Tennessee won't even let cities make their own laws, but most public buildings here are smoke free (except the legislature and courthouse...that had better change if I ever have to do jury duty again.)

So, G, I guess we won't see you at any cons in California or Georgia since you can't smoke in bars or restaurants in either state.  (Not sure about California; Georgia it's in bars that admit non-drinking people under 18.)

And yep, your right to smoke ends where my breathing begins - and your right to answer and talk on your cell phone in restaurants, movies and theatres ought to end where my hearing begins.  (Maybe unless you are a doctor or emergency worker like a fireperson, and then after you answer a vibrating phone, when you see who's calling, you should leave the audience area!)

Oh that this trend would extend to France and Greece - especially Greece, where I can usually only eat outdoors due to the smoke in the restaurants!

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#18 Godeskian

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:53 AM

View PostG1223, on Feb 15 2006, 06:24 PM, said:

I have my own medical issues but I do not let them keep me from going where I want to go. Nor do I try to place limits on what others do as long as it's legal.

So if a large number of people were actively doing something that not only aggravates your own condition but has reams of backing evidence that it is actively hurting everyone around it, you are fine with that?

Well touche G, i'm not that tolerant where others damaging my health are concerned.

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Then maybe we could ban eating fatty food they are bad for us. Then maybe drinking coffee and soda due to caffine and then anything but pure clean water. Yes we must make the word safe so we dare not get hurt by life as it happens.

New verse, same as before.

Fatty foods and soda and coffee only affect you. They do not affect everyone around you.

And in fact, if drinking alcohol you are prohibited from driving because you become a danger to others. So precedents exist all over the world for the goverment telling you it's not okay to do things that specifically put others at risk.


View Postkdalton_69, on Feb 15 2006, 06:33 PM, said:

That being said, secondhand smoke is a proven cause of disease and death in nonsmokers.  There are over 100 peer-reviewed, scientifically valid studies proving it.  The jury isn't still out, as the industry claims.

Thank you. The very tired persecution complex of the tobacco industry and the out-right lies they spread are an ongoing concern.


View PostThemis, on Feb 15 2006, 06:35 PM, said:

Except HOSPITALS???  Residential care homes??  Two places where health concerns ought to override everything else and where smoking should be banned in the first place??

Just because they are officially exempt from the ban doesn't mean they can't enact their own anti-smoking rules. Every hospital i've been to in the UK is a no-smoking zone, and that's not likely to change.

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Oh that this trend would extend to France and Greece - especially Greece, where I can usually only eat outdoors due to the smoke in the restaurants!

Been a while since I went to Greece, but Thessaloniki and Porto Carras were always very good about having a large selection of non-smoking bars and restaurants.

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#19 woody000

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:53 AM

Well the problem with hospitals and care homes is that it steps a touch too far over the civil liberties mark. If people are living somewhere permanently or semi-permanently, they have rights to do what they want within it. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be things in place to protect other residents but just we have to be careful.

#20 kdalton_69

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:00 PM

View Postwoody000, on Feb 15 2006, 04:53 PM, said:

Well the problem with hospitals and care homes is that it steps a touch too far over the civil liberties mark.

There is the safety issue in hospitals.  You know, the whole oxygen line-fire hazard thing.

You wouldn't believe the number of times I've read about smokers on OXYGEN due to their addiction that are so addicted they will light up with a canula in -- the results usually cause men in raincoats with hoses to show up.



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