Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Total smoking ban in pubs and clubs in the UK

Smoking UK Pubs UK Clubs< Smoking ban

  • Please log in to reply
792 replies to this topic

#781 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:14 PM

View PostLin731, on Mar 6 2006, 03:47 PM, said:

I absolutely believe that non smokers have zero rights or business coming into those designated areas to complain.

*COUGH* The first amendment; freedom of speech. *COUGH*

*COUGH*

*COUGH*

#782 Schmokie_Dragon

Schmokie_Dragon

    Crazy Fish Lady

  • Islander
  • 1,226 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:16 PM

Yeah, they can complain but its like walking into a stable yard and moaning you are allergic to horses. Its stupid, its selfish and its unreasonable.
Posted Image

#783 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:46 PM

View PostBroph, on Mar 6 2006, 10:14 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Mar 6 2006, 03:47 PM, said:

I absolutely believe that non smokers have zero rights or business coming into those designated areas to complain.

*COUGH* The first amendment; freedom of speech. *COUGH*

*COUGH*

*COUGH*

A non-smoker walking into a designated smoking area (as opposed to the other possibilities I mentioned) to complain is just asking for a fight.  It would be a stupid time and place to exercise freedom of speech.  Besides, I don't think freedom of speech applies to inciting a riot, which said non-smoker could be inciting by deliberately provoking people smoking in a designated smoking area.  

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#784 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 06:18 PM

View PostThemis, on Mar 6 2006, 10:46 PM, said:

A non-smoker walking into a designated smoking area (as opposed to the other possibilities I mentioned) to complain is just asking for a fight.  It would be a stupid time and place to exercise freedom of speech.  Besides, I don't think freedom of speech applies to inciting a riot, which said non-smoker could be inciting by deliberately provoking people smoking in a designated smoking area.  

Themis

If a smoker can go into a place where smoking isn't allowed and say "I should be allowed to smoke here", a non-smoker should be able to say in a place where smoking is allowed "hey, I don't think smoking should be allowed in here". An open dialog.

#785 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 06:19 PM

View PostSchmokie_Dragon, on Mar 6 2006, 10:16 PM, said:

Yeah, they can complain but its like walking into a stable yard and moaning you are allergic to horses. Its stupid, its selfish and its unreasonable.

Hardly. Take the case in the "olden days" when you went into a restaurant and there wasn't such a thing as a non-smoking section. Times change.

#786 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 07:23 PM

Broph, there's gotta be some live and let die.

For me, you're way too far over to the apparent "nobody can smoke anywhere but in their coffin side" and LOTS is way too over on the "I'll smoke where I want unless someone politely asks and I'm not having withdrawal" side. (Yes, maybe a slight exaggeration on each end...).  If society has progressed enough to have most indoor places smoke free but still have a few designated smoking areas (always with the caveat of none of that smoke getting out of the area), I have no problem with that and I don't understand why you do.   If they keep it in their own smoking areas, run and serviced by other smokers, they're not damaging anyone's health but their own and I see no reason not to leave them to it.  

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#787 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 07:24 PM

^I guess you've never been to New Jersey.

#788 Hibblette

Hibblette
  • Islander
  • 4,228 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 08:10 PM

I have as of yet to see a smoker go to a non smoking area and say that they have the right to smoke there.

In fact there's this attitude of-oops I took the wrong turn at Albuquerque when they realize they are in the wrong area.

Smokers have the right to speak up also but as Themis said inciting a riot is not a right.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#789 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 08:20 PM

View PostHibblette, on Mar 7 2006, 01:10 AM, said:

I have as of yet to see a smoker go to a non smoking area and say that they have the right to smoke there.

And I see it all the time. They stand right next to the "no smoking" sign and they light up. I point out the sign to them and I'm told to mind my own business (when they, in fact, are not). They say "nobody else is around" (as if the sign says "no smoking, unless there's nobody around, then go ahead"). The go into a non-smoking restaurant and try to smoke out the window.

Quote

In fact there's this attitude of-oops I took the wrong turn at Albuquerque when they realize they are in the wrong area.

And they grumble about "smokers rights".

Quote

Smokers have the right to speak up also but as Themis said inciting a riot is not a right.

I don't recall anyone else suggesting inciting a riot.

#790 Hibblette

Hibblette
  • Islander
  • 4,228 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:02 PM

Well I said I haven't seen it.

And seriously I haven't.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#791 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:21 PM

View PostHibblette, on Mar 7 2006, 04:02 AM, said:

Well I said I haven't seen it.

And seriously I haven't.

Nor have I.  Maybe the New Jersey air is making everyone behave badly??

The only smoker I had a problem with in recent history was the one smoking in the doorway of the entrance to the building.  I pointed out to him once (saying "Do you realize?" that his picking that spot meant everyone entering the building had to breath it and he moved to the next archway where he gets some shelter and isn't in the path of people entering the building. Problem solved, everyone happy.

Just a thought...Broph, do you give off an "I hate smokers" vibe that makes smokers confront you?  It could be entirely subconscious and unintentional.  Are you hanging out in places that attract confrontational people??  

Because seriously, I really haven't encountered the problems you describe.

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#792 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 07 March 2006 - 05:23 AM

View PostThemis, on Mar 7 2006, 04:21 AM, said:

Nor have I.  Maybe the New Jersey air is making everyone behave badly??

No. In New Jersey you can smoke almost anywhere. It's in Massachusetts that they smoke where they're not supposed to. It's like the people with the "Baby on Board" stickers that though that the sticker gave them the right to turn left from a right lane and weave in and out of traffic.

Quote

The only smoker I had a problem with in recent history was the one smoking in the doorway of the entrance to the building.

There have been stretches where I've seen a smoker smoking in a prohibited area almost every day of the week. It's less often now.

Quote

Just a thought...Broph, do you give off an "I hate smokers" vibe that makes smokers confront you?

That would be quite a vibe for them to go to an area where it says "No Smoking" 3-5 minutes before I arrive and light up, waiting for me to arrive.

Quote

Are you hanging out in places that attract confrontational people??

Train stations, restaurants, hospitals. These are some areas where I see people breaking the law.

#793 SparkyCola

SparkyCola
  • Islander
  • 14,904 posts

Posted 07 March 2006 - 04:46 PM

Quote

But rights can be ignored. They are not concrete things, they are abstract concepts. Just because people die does not mean they do not have the right to live.


Quite so.

Lin, Broph, people do not have the right to demand to be fed they have the right to food. It's really far simpler than you people are making out. It's not 'the right to go into a grocery store and eat free of charge' it's NOT 'the right to get food FREE or get GIVEN food' or anything of the sort. it is the right to FOOD. And if you didn't have the right to food, you would not be here. We see human rights abused constantly. I can't think that a single second goes by without at least one person's rights being abused. But..and my goodness I can't believe I actually have to say this again:

The only thing which is prioritised ABOVE you getting your rights, is that you are NOT ALLOWED TO INTERFERE WITH THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS.

You are not allowed to eat food at the expense of someone else making a living. You are not allowed to steal other people's stuff. What you are allowed to do...is EAT FOOD. That means that when you eat food, you are allowed to do that. Simple as. Lin, can they demand to be fed? I can demand they be fed. Can a prisoner demand to be fed? YES. Because they have no privileges, not no rights.

Now I'm not going to spell out once more just how obviously the above applies to the ""right"" of smoking.

Quote

If a smoker can go into a place where smoking isn't allowed and say "I should be allowed to smoke here", a non-smoker should be able to say in a place where smoking is allowed "hey, I don't think smoking should be allowed in here". An open dialog.


Agreed.

Quote

And I see it all the time. They stand right next to the "no smoking" sign and they light up.


Me too. And let's face it. I've never seen anyone go into a smoking room and complain. We're talking hypothetical here, whether it happens on a frequent basis or not is irrelevant.

To be fair though Broph- if you go to hospitals, well, clearly in that case smokers should smoke a great deal to ensure the doctors and nurses stay in business, it's really only considerate. Their way of saying thank you. Perhaps you should just avoid train stations restaurants and hospitals- after all, smokers have rights Broph.

Reason I brought up UK law was that the whole 'let's closely analyse the US constitution' thing was making me nauseaus. I concede to the chances of becoming wildly off-topic.

Sparky

Edited by SparkyCola, 07 March 2006 - 04:53 PM.

Able to entertain a thought without taking it home to meet the parents



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Smoking, UK Pubs, UK Clubs<, Smoking ban

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users