Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Do Bush supporters have a political ideology?

Politics-American Bush Supporters Ideologies

  • Please log in to reply
89 replies to this topic

#1 Call Me Robin

Call Me Robin

    red-haired and proud

  • Islander
  • 970 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 05:15 PM

Here's an interesting piece I found on the net.  The author, Glenn Greenwald, is a lawyer specializing in the First Amendment, and, from the looks of things, he's basically a moderate.  He points out how easy it is to earn the "liberal" tag: Simply criticize the president and you are automatically a liberal.  Even if you are, erm, a conservative like Andrew Sullivan.

Quote

In the couple of years after 9/11, Bush followers revered Sullivan, as he stood loyally behind Bush, providing the rhetorical justifications for almost every Bush action. And even prior to the Bush Administration, Sullivan was a fully accepted member of the conservative circle. Nobody questioned the bona fides of his conservative credentials because he ascribed to the conservative view on almost every significant political issue.

Despite not having changed his views on very many, if any, of those issues, Sullivan is now frequently called a "liberal" (at best) when he is talked about by Bush followers. What has changed are not his political views or ideological orientation. Instead, he no longer instinctively and blindly praises George Bush, but periodically, even frequently, criticizes Bush. By definition, then, he is no longer a "conservative."

Traditionally, conservatives have favored smaller government, individual rights, and fiscal restraint.  By these standards, the Bush administration cannot be described as "conservative."  Not with its huge deficits, growing government, and, oh yeah, Republican senators trying to diagnose brain-dead women by video.  Traditionally, Republicans have been the party that champions personal responsibility...up until Bush became president.  Today, Bush supporters bend over backwards to justify a whole slew of scandals, from the leak of Valerie Plame's identity to wiretaps sans warrants to Tom Delay's assorted shady dealings.  

So if Bush loyalists aren't traditional conservatives, then what are they?  Greenwald's piece is thought-provoking reading.
Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.
--Aristotle

The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
--Eric Hoffer

#2 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 05:50 PM

They're anti-the-other-side.

#3 HubcapDave

HubcapDave

    Bald is Beautiful!

  • Islander
  • 1,333 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 05:54 PM

This was discussed recently in another thread.  And I'll repeat what I said then: it's an interesting article, but it's a bit on the polemic side. It'sa tries to paint conservsatives with a wide brush.

#4 Call Me Robin

Call Me Robin

    red-haired and proud

  • Islander
  • 970 posts

Posted 16 February 2006 - 11:01 PM

View PostHubcapDave, on Feb 16 2006, 10:54 PM, said:

This was discussed recently in another thread.  And I'll repeat what I said then: it's an interesting article, but it's a bit on the polemic side. It'sa tries to paint conservsatives with a wide brush.

Still, there's a grain of truth there.  There seems to be a core of Bush "faithful" who don't dare deviate from the party line.  Aside from Andrew Sullivan and a handful of others, right-wing commentators all seem to follow identical talking points, the same talking points followed by the 35-40 percent of people who still think Bush is doing a dandy job.  

Many of today's "conservatives" would be laughed out of town by the likes of Barry Goldwater--the quintessential small-government conservative.  That's because, as mentioned above, today's "conservatives" aren't conservative at all.  They're "anti-the other side."  Of course, "anti-the other side" is not a political ideology.
Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.
--Aristotle

The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
--Eric Hoffer

#5 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,149 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 12:39 PM

W isn't even a conservative in his own father's mode.
Can't Touch This!!

#6 Call Me Robin

Call Me Robin

    red-haired and proud

  • Islander
  • 970 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 12:54 PM

I've read about Barry Goldwater; he was quite an interesting character.  As I mentioned above, he was the prototypical small government/libertarian conservative.  At the same time, he was deeply opposed to the Christian right: "When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."  He was also pro-choice and supported gays in the military.  This may sound weird, but it is consistent, IMO, with libertarian conservatives' belief in individual rights.
Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.
--Aristotle

The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
--Eric Hoffer

#7 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,149 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 03:31 PM

View PostCall Me Robin, on Feb 17 2006, 12:54 PM, said:

I've read about Barry Goldwater; he was quite an interesting character.  As I mentioned above, he was the prototypical small government/libertarian conservative.  At the same time, he was deeply opposed to the Christian right: "When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."  He was also pro-choice and supported gays in the military.  This may sound weird, but it is consistent, IMO, with libertarian conservatives' belief in individual rights.



Keep in mind that Goldwater was considered a radical in the 60's, and advocated the use of Nukes either in Koera or Veitnam.
Can't Touch This!!

#8 rponiarski

rponiarski

    Still crazy after all these years...

  • Islander
  • 241 posts

Posted 17 February 2006 - 05:30 PM

View PostKosh, on Feb 17 2006, 03:31 PM, said:

View PostCall Me Robin, on Feb 17 2006, 12:54 PM, said:

I've read about Barry Goldwater; he was quite an interesting character.  As I mentioned above, he was the prototypical small government/libertarian conservative.  At the same time, he was deeply opposed to the Christian right: "When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."  He was also pro-choice and supported gays in the military.  This may sound weird, but it is consistent, IMO, with libertarian conservatives' belief in individual rights.



Keep in mind that Goldwater was considered a radical in the 60's, and advocated the use of Nukes either in Koera or Veitnam.

Anyone remember the TV ad from the Johnson people with a little girl and the atomic bomb exploding, trying to paint Goldwater as a war mongerer who would cause the end of the world? I remember those days very well and we were scared, "duck and cover" and bomb shelters not withstanding.

Still, he was an honorable man and a very intelligent one as well. He would be appalled at what passes for "conservative" these days and most likely would end up being a Democrat...
Richard M. Poniarski
Everyone is entitled to live in the reality of their own choosing...

#9 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 03:15 PM

Bill Clinton had a personality cult. That cult's central premise was that if your wife won't give you oral sex, it's okay to get it elsewhere.

Democrat Abortion rallies must be great places to get dates. You already know the women there are having sex, and even better, they all love their Sex God Bill Clinton for his swingin' promiscuity. Sounds like a win-win for the guys out there.

-Ogami

#10 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 03:48 PM

Quote

Democrat Abortion rallies must be great places to get dates. You already know the women there are having sex, and even better, they all love their Sex God Bill Clinton for his swingin' promiscuity. Sounds like a win-win for the guys out there.

Hmm.  I suppose the obvious corrollary to that statement explains why conservatives are so. . .mmm . . . tense.   :D
Posted Image

#11 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 04:20 PM

View Postrponiarski, on Feb 17 2006, 05:30 PM, said:

Still, he was an honorable man and a very intelligent one as well. He would be appalled at what passes for "conservative" these days and most likely would end up being a Democrat...

Yeah till he saw that the tax and spend mentality of the party was there and full in force. He'd then look for a way to get his party back on it's path it's closer to the center than the DNC.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#12 Shalamar

Shalamar

    Last Star to the Left and Straight on till Morning

  • Forever Missed
  • 17,644 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 04:28 PM

Ya know not all conservatives are ...tense...just as not all conservatives are Republicans. Don't paint with so broad a brush. Ogami did specify Democrats and Democrat does not necessarily = liberal.

And Ogami, not all Democrats, even those who attend Democrat Abortion rallies, love Bill Clinton.  Bill Clinton a sex god?   * blink* in stunned surprize...

Two broad brushes may not make a right but they can sure make for guideline violations if they keep on painting.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

Posted Image

#13 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 04:31 PM

Sorry, Shalamar. I was actually trying to answer Ogami's sexist and deeply offensive  implication that Democratic women/women who believe in reproductive choice are all sluts with a little humor.   I guess I'll have to be more direct next time.
Posted Image

#14 Shalamar

Shalamar

    Last Star to the Left and Straight on till Morning

  • Forever Missed
  • 17,644 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 04:45 PM

I agree that it was sexist and more than a little offensive - very denigrating to any woman who bleives in reproductive rights - It definitely wipes out any respect I had for Ogami.

Sexual harrassment is never right, even on a message board.

Edited by Shalamar, 18 February 2006 - 04:51 PM.

The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

Posted Image

#15 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 04:48 PM

View PostShalamar, on Feb 18 2006, 01:28 PM, said:

Ya know not all conservatives are ...tense...just as not all conservatives are Republicans. Don't paint with so broad a brush. Ogami did specify Democrats and Democrat does not necessarily = liberal.

And Ogami, not all Democrats, even those who attend Democrat Abortion rallies, love Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton a sex god? * blink* in stunned surprize...

Two broad brushes may not make a right but they can sure make for guideline violations if they keep on painting.


Thank you.

And Ogami, Democrats don't hold abortion rallies. Where DO you get this stuff? <shakes head>

Edited by Rhea, 18 February 2006 - 04:48 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#16 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 05:55 PM

And really Ogami it's not like the Democrats even have an agenda they can present to the people that might get them votes. They just have "Get Bush no matter the cost or the lies that need made up or exaggerated." It's works out very well for them. It's kept them from getting more of them in office and no where near the White House except as a guest or on a tour.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#17 Chipper

Chipper

    Give it up

  • Islander
  • 5,202 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 06:25 PM

^ Sounds like the Republicans when the Dems are in power, no? ;)
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

- Jenny Smith on Usenet, via Jid, via Kathy

#18 rponiarski

rponiarski

    Still crazy after all these years...

  • Islander
  • 241 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 08:19 PM

View PostG1223, on Feb 18 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

And really Ogami it's not like the Democrats even have an agenda they can present to the people that might get them votes. They just have "Get Bush no matter the cost or the lies that need made up or exaggerated." It's works out very well for them.

You mean like the Swift Boat Veterans who say anything no matter how false, or my personal favorite, saying that Max Cleland is "soft" on defence while he is in his wheelchair after losing three limbs in Vietnam?

Sad part is that the Republican's have seemed to make it work after all... :(
Richard M. Poniarski
Everyone is entitled to live in the reality of their own choosing...

#19 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 08:34 PM

Quote

I agree that it was sexist and more than a little offensive - very denigrating to any woman who bleives in reproductive rights - It definitely wipes out any respect I had for Ogami.

Sexual harrassment is never right, even on a message board.

Thank you.  I very much appreciate your comments and your taking that stand.
Posted Image

#20 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 18 February 2006 - 10:30 PM

View PostChipper, on Feb 18 2006, 06:25 PM, said:

^ Sounds like the Republicans when the Dems are in power, no? ;)


Actually the Republicans were kept out of the rigns of power till they came up with  the Contract with America which set out and said what they wanted to try and do in their first year. I miss those days as the ideas were mainstream ideas despite attempts to label it with the many fear cards that the DNC had to throw out.  That is why these ideas appealed to the voters.  The thing is that the DNC cannot seem to come up with such a contract.

Hell a few weeks ago in  a breakfast meeting of Democratic supporters in Ohio the spokesman was unable to say what the DNC's plans were to be strong on national defense as that was a issue very important to at least voters in Ohio. This was a room full of Democrats and the party's spokesmen cannot tell them what the party is going to do on it's weakest points.

This is another example of how the DNC cannot get the middle of road votes.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Politics-American, Bush Supporters, Ideologies

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users