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Protesters picket Mr. Rogers memorial service

Fred Phelps Westboro Baptist Church Funeral Demonstrations.

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#41 Laoise

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 03:43 AM

Wish I lived in a world where the right to free speech didn't include the right to needlessly and baselessly defame someone's name... especially once the someone in question is dead. :(
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#42 Enmar

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 09:49 AM

^ Wish I lived in a world where calling someone "gay" doesn’t count as defaming :(
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#43 Laoise

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Posted 12 May 2003 - 04:10 PM

^I wasn't referring to the fact that they were calling him gay.  It was the "Mr. Rogers is in Hell" and the bit about him having poisioned minds that I think shouldn't be allowed.
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#44 TravelerOfTheWays

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 06:54 AM

From what I understand, the much beloved  :wacko:  Phelps lives rather near my Mizzou (University of Missouri-Columbia) and has threatened to come over here and protest our Triangle Coalition (Gay-Straight-Lesbian-Bi-Trans.... alliance group) meetings and events--he may well have already, and I haven't heard about it..  If I were more in tune with Tri-Co, I'm sure I could get a lot more information about this guy.  In fact, he was going to come down here and harass the Pride Prom, but that never went down.  Sickening, sickening, SICKENING.  The God he invokes is definitely not the God I grew up with, whose greatest gifts to humankind were faith, hope, and LOVE!!!  Gaaah, people like him are why I avoid the Christian groups on campus (some are all right, I'm sure, but I agree with none that I've found).


Oh yeah... and what EXACTLY made Mr. Rogers gay?  I mean...he changed his shoes, visited people, fed his fish, and sang songs.  And he had his little trolley.  THAT'S IT!!! The trolley represents San Fransisco and the group of different puppet things all the different lifestyles that run amuck in the city!!  He's trying to tell your kids that San Fransisco is "magical" place, and everything that goes on there is okay!  That sick, sick man, subliminally influencing our children like that!

Edited by TravelerOfTheWays, 17 May 2003 - 06:58 AM.

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#45 Delvo

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 08:51 AM

<deleted to eliminate locational references>

Edited by Delvo, 07 August 2004 - 07:33 PM.


#46 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 07:34 AM

Delvo, on May 16 2003, 04:58 PM, said:

feminazi war rally going on in LM,

This is pretty reprehensible terminology, Delvo, and to use it in a thread discussing hate acts such  protesting a funeral to spouting anti-gay rhetoric qualifies as points that out in high relief.

Please make your points without the name calling.

Ro

Edited by Ro-Astarte, 19 May 2003 - 07:37 AM.


#47 Norville

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 02:16 PM

Quote

Please make your points without the name calling.

Ah, but if people couldn't name-call, would they have any way of making their arguments? :sarcasm: Feminazi is one of my least favorite terms ever... that must mean I am one! :sarcasm: (Yeah, I've been feminist in my life. These days, I wonder why I bothered. Part of my utter disgust for most women is because of the *women* who've called me feminazi. Fine, I no longer believe that most women are intelligent and capable of being strong. I wonder if that makes the name-callers happier? :sarcasm: )
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Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#48 Delvo

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 03:50 PM

Ro-Astarte, on May 18 2003, 02:41 PM, said:

Delvo, on May 16 2003, 04:58 PM, said:

feminazi war rally going on in LM,

This is pretty reprehensible terminology, Delvo, and to use it in a thread discussing hate acts such  protesting a funeral to spouting anti-gay rhetoric qualifies as points that out in high relief.

Please make your points without the name calling.

Ro
You're right. That was heartless, thoughtless, mean, cruel word choice. I should learn to be more sensetive toward people who try to stone me... :sarcasm:

(And that's just if you ignore the other stuff they did and advocated doing...)

#49 G1223

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 04:53 PM

I agree with Delvo. Being the victim of a hate crime allows to to call them femanazi  or even worse. Now if he said all women were femanzi then I would agree it's name calling.

Now as to Mr.Rogers Funeral protest I would say it's in very poor taste and while it's stupid does not mean Rev. Smuck cannot do it.
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#50 Bad Wolf

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Posted 19 May 2003 - 06:19 PM

Gordon and Delvo let me give you some perspective.

I've been attacked.

Twice.

Both times by black men.

That does NOT give me license to refer to all African Americans or even *those* African Americans as n*ggerS (please forgive me people for even typing that vile word, let alone typing it in caps but I'm trying to get through to some people who I think need it to be said as vividly as possible.)

So some protestor (probably an idiot, sure sounds like it) got out of hand.  That is no basis for making the kind of generalized slur that Delvo did.

:(

Edited by Una Salus Lillius, 19 May 2003 - 06:20 PM.

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#51 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 03:02 AM

Referring to feminists as "feminazis" because one  or a group of them attacked you during a protest that got out of hand is corollary to calling professional soldiers "warmongers" because one or a group of them killed civilians.

Situations get out of hand. Using that as an excuse to brand a whole group of people with a despicable name- like both the above cases-- is not arguing any position.

It's intention is clearly inflammatory and insulting, and violates this ExIsle community guideline:



Quote

1. All members will treat all others with respect. Even the most confrontational poster is a person behind the screen name. Please try to assume the best possible intention in all situations and allow for the possibility of misunderstanding on your part or temporary stresses on the other party.

As well as this one, in my estimation, though its about a particular group rather than an individual:  

Quote

2. Posters are free to criticize shows, actors, producers, writers, executives, and any other public figure. However, please try to keep it about the person's work

Please follow the guidelines you agreed to when you joined this community.

Ro

#52 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 03:07 AM

G1223, on May 19 2003, 01:00 AM, said:

I agree with Delvo. Being the victim of a hate crime allows to to call them femanazi  or even worse. Now if he said all women were femanzi then I would agree it's name calling.
No, it does not.

Lil's example is quite illustrative of the reasons why.

Ro

#53 G1223

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 08:16 AM

And if very victim of an attack behaved as Lil I would agree. Basically I see the victim as having the right to speak of his attackers as he sees fit. Also I would point out Devlo's comments were directed at a part of social group not the group as a whole.  

Now I would recommend this for a freedom of speech thread rather than hijacking this one.
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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

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#54 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 08:20 AM

G1223, on May 19 2003, 04:23 PM, said:

And if very victim of an attack behaved as Lil I would agree. Basically I see the victim as having the right to speak of his attackers as he sees fit. Also I would point out Devlo's comments were directed at a part of social group not the group as a whole. 

Now I would recommend this for a freedom of speech thread rather than hijacking this one.
This was moderation, G, not a thread hijack.

That's why I posted the section of the guidelines. Please follow them.

Ro

#55 G1223

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 08:54 AM

What indivual did Delvo attack? What did he say except his experinces at MU? Did  he list anyone directly by name  or did he talk about the extreamist he delt with at school?

Since we are not to talk negativly about the feminsts movment not even listed by organization names I want to make sure that you will as a Mod step in to prevent remarks about the Reverand and his extreamists actions.

In Short.  Hate groups either have the same protection or we have two standards. Do you promise to support from what could be negative comments groups like the KKK? I ask becasue I would hate to feel that all animals are equal just some are more equal.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#56 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 09:39 AM

G1223, on May 19 2003, 05:01 PM, said:

What indivual did Delvo attack? What did he say except his experinces at MU? Did  he list anyone directly by name  or did he talk about the extreamist he delt with at school?

If they'd been a gay rights group, and he'd said he said "faggot war rally" I would have called him on that as well.

"Feminazi" has no other use than as a derogatory term. Comparing feminism to the Nazi party is, I reiterate again, only done in order to inflame and insult.  Not to argue against feminism, but to demonize it.

There are feminists on this board. (Yes, I'm one of them.)

Just as there are military folks on this board, and I wouldn't let someone call them warmongers without being challenged. Thus the example above.

Quote

Since we are not to talk negativly about the feminsts movment not even listed by organization names I want to make sure that you will as a Mod step in to prevent remarks about the Reverand and his extreamists actions.

You need to read what I said. You can't call the group names. Particularly a group that most likely includes members of this board- feminists.

By all means, argue the case against feminism if you'd like. That's well within bounds.  But if you can't make your argument without calling names I question how strong your argument is.

Quote

In Short.  Hate groups either have the same protection or we have two standards. Do you promise to support from what could be negative comments groups like the KKK? I ask becasue I would hate to feel that all animals are equal just some are more equal.

Where did you see that comment against the Reverend's group, for example?  Or the KKK?

If I've missed something, which is certainly possible, feel free to point it out to me.  I saw people object to his actions, call them in poor taste, and say they didn't reflect Christianity.  

I do not recall them being called names, nor do I believe (may be wrong here) that members of that group are posting on this board, and thus members of this community in the same way I know there are feminists on this board.

It seems a clear delineation to me.  

Ro

#57 G1223

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 10:17 AM

That is correct you do not know, but they are a group that while their actions may and are in many cases objectionable, but are you going to allow such attacks to take place?

By your posting this sounds as a yes I hope that you remember that when it comes back around. Someohow I doubt it and will find an excuse to not stand up for it. Then again I am a pessimist and expect the worse in others.

And this is why I am again saying we are getting off topic.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#58 Jid

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 10:21 AM

Just to chime in here.

Delvo - I can appreciate that you feel some animosity towards anyone who has literally tried to hit you with flying debris.  But as Ro pointed out; our policy explicitly says not to use sweeping generalized terms that could be considered hateful.  

The term in question fits under that policy.

G1223 - just a specific response to a point you raised:

Quote

Since we are not to talk negativly about the feminsts movment not even listed by organization names I want to make sure that you will as a Mod step in to prevent remarks about the Reverand and his extreamists actions.

In Short. Hate groups either have the same protection or we have two standards. Do you promise to support from what could be negative comments groups like the KKK? I ask becasue I would hate to feel that all animals are equal just some are more equal.

If you call the KKK a hate group, you are simply stating a fact.  If you called the KKK a "bunch of redneck inbred a**holes", then yes, you would be called on that too, just as easily as for the slur used above.

I can say that, because I still work here.  The day I see mods playing favourites is the day I resign. :)  

Ro, I'd say you've got it bang on :)
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#59 Appreciate

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 10:28 AM

G, what I just read in Ro's post, and what I certainly believe, is that name calling can be as offensive and as against board policy when applied to groups as when applied to individuals.

I believe that Ro pretty clearly said that she did not want *any* name calling.  I agree with that.  

She was right on to ask that people refrain from using loaded, potentially offensive terms and I hope we can all remember that, regardless of our political leanings.

And you're right: We're off topic.  Let's return to our regularly scheduled debate.

Thanks,
Kathy
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#60 Nikki Peppermint

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 11:32 AM

I'm sorry if this has been said already, but.....

Mr. Rogers????  How can anyone picket Mr. Rogers of all people? :o  Regardless of anything, we're talking Mr. Rogers here!!  Sheesh!!   :eek2:  :glare:  :crazy:




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church, Funeral Demonstrations.

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