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Protesters picket Mr. Rogers memorial service

Fred Phelps Westboro Baptist Church Funeral Demonstrations.

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#61 Laoise

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 11:48 AM

^ We don't want some slime promoting something as sickening and destructive as tolerance, do we Ms. Peppermint?!? ;)
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#62 Delvo

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 02:03 PM

Ro-Astarte, on May 19 2003, 10:09 AM, said:

Referring to feminists as "feminazis" because one or a group of them...
If you were to actually read what I wrote instead of infusing your own extras to support a verbal assault on me, you'd notice that I didn't do what you describe in this quote. I was obviously referring to that particular group and what THEY were doing and saying, not what any other groups of people do. (Choices of theirs, not the way they were born, which annihilates some of the other ludicrous comparisons being made here.) This stuff from you is BoguS.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled warlock hunt.

Edited by Delvo, 07 August 2004 - 07:36 PM.


#63 Nikki Peppermint

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 02:18 PM

Laoise, on May 19 2003, 05:55 PM, said:

^ We don't want some slime promoting something as sickening and destructive as tolerance, do we Ms. Peppermint?!? ;)
Huh??  I don't really get it, tolerance is a good thing.  Bashing Mr. Rogers is bad. Now I will go back to lurking. ;)

Edited by Nikki Peppermint, 20 May 2003 - 02:23 PM.


#64 Rov Judicata

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 02:18 PM

Delvo-- How about we just avoid largely empty terms like 'feminazi' and 'warlock hunt' in the first place? It's unproductive, and unhelpful. I think we can get things done without name-calling of anybody....
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#65 Delvo

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 02:28 PM

Javert Rovinski, on May 19 2003, 09:25 PM, said:

How about we just avoid largely empty terms like 'feminazi'
Then describing the war rally in question would have actually BEEN implying that that was the behavior of feminists, by failing to distinguish these from those. Gewd gawd, how can this whole thing be so backward? You people are all crazy, or I'm hallucinating the words I think are on my screen! Next thing you people will do is tell me that my refusal to eat lobster or crab because the animals are pointlessly tortured to death instead of just plain killed proves that I hate animals and love to torture them...

#66 Anakam

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 02:52 PM

Mr. Rogers? :Oo:  Meep.  *shudder*
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#67 tennyson

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 03:22 PM

umm, I thought there was clear demarcation between the extremists who hit you with things Delvo and other  feminists in the same way that there is a demaraction between the people who picketed Mr Rogers funeral and mainstream Christianity. I don't know what terms should be used but I understood the demarcation that was being made.
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#68 Uncle Sid

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Posted 20 May 2003 - 08:11 PM

Hi people,

Reading this thread, it looks like we've come across a bit of thread drift in terms of the original topic.  No problem there.  However, it appears that we seem to be bandying back and forth positions about whether a certain term is appropriate to describe someone that pelted poor Delvo with a rock.  

To be fair here, we have been spending time amusing ourselves at the expense of the good Rev. Phelps, and have allowed ourselves to express our amusement or shock at the actions of such a person.  For that reason, I can fully understand how terms like "feminazi" could be thought appropriate.  However, we do need to remember that such terms have been used to describe even real, honest to goodness, un-extreme feminists unfairly.  

Many of your fellow forum members are also feminists, as you might have guessed.  Now, I know you wouldn't want to upset or degrade the opinions of a fellow member of the community here, so I would ask that we think first about how we describe people in broad terms.  I'm certain that no one meant any harm by the comment, but the fact is that we need to think first before we speak.  In the future, the term, "radicalized feminist" would probably be just as descriptive, if not more so, to describe such people.  

Finally, please let the moderators ( Ro and I) know if you come across terminology you might find objectionable in the future.  Whether it be about feminists, Catholics, environmentalists or the French, we can talk about it and educate the poster(s) about why you might feel the way you do.  We want to keep this fun and educational for everybody, and not exclude anyone from this forum through unintended slights or stereotyping.  

Thanks!
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#69 QueenTiye

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 01:57 AM

~SIGH~

I could wish that Delvo expressed himself a little more gently...but then, he wouldn't be Delvo...

The distinction was clear to me right from the start, so I'm relieved to note that tennyson also noted the distinction.  I think that it might be helpful if we invited people to clarify their meanings before we jump all over them.

Editing to add, thanks Uncle Sid for your enlightened post...I agree with it mostly - but I think that the behavior exhibited by Delvo's attackers deserves to be called a bit more than radicalized behavior... although that term is likely a good one for extremists of any ilk who DON'T resort to violence...

QT

Edited by QueenTiye, 21 May 2003 - 02:00 AM.

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#70 Bad Wolf

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 02:24 AM

Of course what happened to Delvo was not okay.

What happened at Pearl Harbor wasn't okay either. Doesn't make it okay to refer to Japanese people (or even *the Japanese people who attacked Pearl Harbor*) as Japs.

That's all I'm saying and FTR what I *really* object to is the frankly absurd notion put forth by G that being a victim of an act of hate makes it okay for you to turn around and engage in further acts of hate.  I find that notion rather appalling.  And I notice that it's not a notion that Delvo seems to be advancing either.

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#71 QueenTiye

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 02:42 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on May 20 2003, 11:31 AM, said:

Of course what happened to Delvo was not okay.

What happened at Pearl Harbor wasn't okay either. Doesn't make it okay to refer to Japanese people (or even *the Japanese people who attacked Pearl Harbor*) as Japs.
I hear you Lil. But even that's an unfair analogy.  Your original one was better.  A war situation is very different, and calling the Japanese people (any Japanese people) by derogatory names because of the actions taken by a hostile military force is just ignorant (at best.)    It's just not the same kind of situation.  

QT

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#72 Bad Wolf

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 02:52 AM

No because my point is a broad one.  The fact that someone hurts you doesn't mean it's okay to refer to them or people like them be generalized racist or gender discriminating terms.

That kind of thinking imo is indicative of the kind of fear and prejudice that leads to things like the internment of Japanese Americans, or to the way people who looked middle eastern have been treated since 9-11.  It's the mindset that things like what G is advocating seem to be symptomatic of that I object to.
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#73 G1223

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 03:10 AM

I am trying Advocate allowing people to be just that people not controled or held back from speaking their minds. I disagree with a lot of Delvo's words. I do not think all feminsts are femanazi's but some are.

Sometimes the expression of hateful words is the only way to communicate. It's unvarnished and it may be rude as hell but at least you know the person's position on things.  I did not say the message would not be lost when done that way but that is the way of world.

Now I have asked if this could be moved to a thread where this could be talked about and I am sorry Delvo opened this again but this off the topic.

I am only a poster but if this cannot get near the topic can we lock this?
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#74 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 03:15 AM

Ex Isle policy is not to lock threads except for administrative purposes.

If you do not wish to continue the discussion, do not post here, and the thread will die a natural death.

On the same note, if you wish to open a discussion about freedom of speech, you are free to do so.  Either here in OT if you want to talk about it in general terms, or in AQG if you want to discuss it in terms of ExIsle's guidelines.

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#75 Appreciate

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 03:18 AM

G,

I hear what you're saying about words, but the thing is, I--and this board's guidelines--don't agree with you.  Words have power, and using ugly words to get your point across ends up empowering a level of, for want of a less laden word, ickiness in the debate that I think it's far better for Ex Isle that we avoid.

Rov, Ro, Sid and I all agree that the use of such words by anyone from any philosophy isn't good.  I'd like to stick by that standard--and to invite anyone who feels that such words are being used without protest to let us know.

And regarding locking threads, we don't, again as an Ex Isle policy, ratified by the vast majority of our members, lock threads unless there's a duplicate or another odd technical issue with one.  (Edited to add: Sorry, Ro already snuck in on me here...I'm repetitive!)

Thanks,
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Edited by Appreciate, 21 May 2003 - 03:19 AM.

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#76 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 03:19 AM

G1223, on May 20 2003, 11:17 AM, said:

Sometimes the expression of hateful words is the only way to communicate. It's unvarnished and it may be rude as hell but at least you know the person's position on things.  I did not say the message would not be lost when done that way but that is the way of world.
In my experience, the use of  "hateful" words actually is a bar to communication.  It makes the words the focus instead of the issue behind them.

I certainly feel this principle has been demonstrated on this thread.

So, I would suggest inflammatory language is not an effective way to argue any position.

Ro

ETA: Okay, so Kathy and I are Borged this morning...  :eek:

Edited by Ro-Astarte, 21 May 2003 - 03:43 AM.


#77 Delvo

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 01:50 PM

Ro-Astarte, on May 20 2003, 10:26 AM, said:

It makes the words the focus instead of the issue behind them. I certainly feel this principle has been demonstrated on this thread.
My word choice didn't do that. YOU did. And you had to pretend I'd said something I hadn't said in order to do it; that's pretty far from my words doing it, it's the opposite of that!



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