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WAR!!!!

Smoking Bans

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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 07:10 PM

This sh*t has simply got to stop. This is BS! I watched the MSNBC report about CA banning smoking in public, fining those that smoke outside 500 dollars for first offense, and jail time for second offense. Haven't been able to find that story on MSNBC yet, but when I searched I found this one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8697348/

I really don't want this thread to become like the other smoking thread...with endless debates back and forth. Suffice it to say that I would tell the officer that in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't pay a penny of the 500 dollars. I would then give the ticket to my lawyer and file as many suits against all those who put forth that bill....Smoking outside is no more of a health hazard then car exhaust. When they get rid of the cars, then come talk to me.

As for the sanctimonious, holier then thou, politican in NJ...I think this sums it up best:

Quote

“The day a politician wants to tell me I can’t smoke in my car, that’s the day he takes over my lease payments,” said John Cito, a financial planner from Hackensack with a taste for $20 cigars.

Perhaps it is time for the factories in these cities that make cigarettes to outsource their business. Pack up, take their jobs, so that now these politicans have massive uneploymed workers on their hands. And to prevent the actual place from being used by another company, still keep the lease on it. It shouldn't cut into their profitts too much.


Quote

Assemblyman John McKeon, a tobacco opponent whose father died of emphysema, sponsored the legislation. He cites a AAA-sponsored study on driver distractions in which the automobile association found that of 32,000 accidents linked to distraction, 1 percent were related to smoking.

And I wonder how many accidents involved the drivers being distracted by their children??? What's next? Banning children from the car?

I'm about to say something that will get me banned....so before I cross that line....let me leave the thread with this: If the sanctimonious, holier than thou, non-smokers want a war, I say bring it! It's time smokers united and stood up for themselves. Enough is Enough already.


*rant over*
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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#2 Anastashia

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 07:23 PM

While you might be able to file a suit about the constitutionality of the ban LotS, I highly doubt you'd find any lawyer or any precedent actually for filing suit against the people who sponsored or supported the bill. There's just no personal liability in that kind of a circumstance.

In general though I'd have to say you need to start facing the fact that all you would do would be spend a lot of money and get no where. Why not instead spend that money on efforts to stop smoking? It would certainly be better for your health.

Edited by Anastashia, 17 March 2006 - 07:24 PM.

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#3 Rhea

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 07:38 PM

^And your blood pressure. ;)

Edited by Rhea, 17 March 2006 - 07:38 PM.

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#4 usmarox

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 07:47 PM

I'd like to see some data that says me smoking on the street corner does you more harm than the n cars that go past you while you walk past.  Banning smoking in enclosed public spaces?  I can see that.  But this is legislation for the sake of...what?  I can't even figure out what purpose it could serve that a total ban couldn't do better.  Auto accidents caused by smoking? Well, possibly.  As LotS points out, there are lots of things that cause RTAs, and I'm sure there's plenty you could do to improve road safety before you go after smokers.

For the record, I'm an ex-smoker.  I quit because I wanted to.  And the one thing that annoys me, most of all, about the creeping anti-smoking legislation I'm hearing about across the world is its cowardice.  If it's that gorramed bad for everyone, grow some stones and just ban it.  Period.  Otherwise just leave them the hell alone.

*headdesk*
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#5 scherzo

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 08:13 PM

I'd like to say the problem is sleazeball politicians and their incremental encroachment on personal freedoms. But the sad fact is, much of the public at large has willingly(even enthusiastically)given government the green light to issue further restrictions on our lives, and that's really where the trouble lies.

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#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 08:35 PM

View PostAnastashia, on Mar 17 2006, 07:23 PM, said:

While you might be able to file a suit about the constitutionality of the ban LotS, I highly doubt you'd find any lawyer or any precedent actually for filing suit against the people who sponsored or supported the bill. There's just no personal liability in that kind of a circumstance.

If a person attacks you, that person is liable, are they not? Granted, it's not a physical attack...unless you consider the withdrawl of smoking a physical attack. And that's stretching the meaning of the word, even for me.

Reason I would include them though, in all honesty, it to cover all possible bases.

Quote

In general though I'd have to say you need to start facing the fact that all you would do would be spend a lot of money and get no where. Why not instead spend that money on efforts to stop smoking? It would certainly be better for your health.

Better for my health....yes, it would. And perhaps down the line I will quit again...Yes I quit once before, but started back up...Don't ask, long story.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to allow some idiotic, sanctimonious, PoS to tell me that I have to quit....If we let this go, where will it end? By "We" I mean everyone. What's next on the chopping block? Red meat, butter, alcohol? All those are bad for you. We already have employers firing people for what beer they drink. The emploee of Budweiser drinking a miller light, at a party. We  have employers firing people because they're too fat...the casinos. And we have employers trying to dictate that smokers have to quit...even when not on the job....What's next?

Edited by LORD of the SWORD, 17 March 2006 - 08:35 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#7 G1223

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 09:53 PM

Yeah LotS why not let the state nanny take care of you. I mean it's not like the lawmakers of California have spent more money than they have or failed to prevent an in rush of illegal aliens. Oh wait they have.

I would say to those demanding smokers stop  go and get your plastic bubbles because the exhust from cars is going to kill you. I know it is so much more nicier to be the bully than actually find a way to get along.
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#8 BklnScott

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:07 PM

How do you guys feel about the war on drugs?

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#9 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:14 PM

^ More needs to be done in a more organized manner. ;)  Clamp the borders and hunt the suppliers to the corners of the country, and rehab the users.  

Quote

LOTS: If a person attacks you, that person is liable, are they not? Granted, it's not a physical attack...unless you consider the withdrawl of smoking a physical attack.
The government isn’t a person but rather the government.  They have pretty exclusive right to the use of “force” except for a few small exceptions where individuals have it for self defense.  That means having a government “agent” walk up to you and tell you to stop smoking is a lot different than the average Joe telling you to stop.  You could ignore the average Joe or press charges if he rips it out of your mouth.  If the government does the same thing and you say no or resist said person will be just cooling their heels in a cell.  

The thing is that in my opinion strong legal precedence already exists for these bans to be upheld in the courts.  We have had bans on open containers and public consumption of alcohol in place for years in numerous communities.  These laws are going to be the basis for any defense of the bans and I don’t see any reason why the courts will ever overturn them based on precedence.  If smokers want to win this fight they’ll have to do it in the legislatures and they are in the minority now.
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#10 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:23 PM

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Mar 17 2006, 11:14 PM, said:

The government isn’t a person but rather the government.  They have pretty exclusive right to the use of “force” except for a few small exceptions where individuals have it for self defense.  That means having a government “agent” walk up to you and tell you to stop smoking is a lot different than the average Joe telling you to stop.  You could ignore the average Joe or press charges if he rips it out of your mouth.  If the government does the same thing and you say no or resist said person will be just cooling their heels in a cell.

Yes, and No. A government agent can't just walk upto the average joe, pull a gun and fire, killing him...not for no reason. Similarly, the Government can't tell the average joe how to live their lives. They can't tell them what to eat? Who to sleep with? ect...

Quote

The thing is that in my opinion strong legal precedence already exists for these bans to be upheld in the courts.  We have had bans on open containers and public consumption of alcohol in place for years in numerous communities.  These laws are going to be the basis for any defense of the bans and I don’t see any reason why the courts will ever overturn them based on precedence.  If smokers want to win this fight they’ll have to do it in the legislatures and they are in the minority now.

Good point about the ban of open containers. As for smokers being in the minority...being in the minority doesn't matter too much if you can dig up dirt on the politican pushing the ban on smoking.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#11 G1223

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:27 PM

View Post_ph, on Mar 17 2006, 11:07 PM, said:

How do you guys feel about the war on drugs?


I am either for draconain methods on dealers or complete legalization.  And by compleat I mean crystal meth to whatever local brain destroying crap stupid people want to inhale or shoot in their veins. This will mean stupid people will die in droves and that hopefully means that they will not breed.

I sometimes think that maybe the human race needs these drugs to purge the gene pool.
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#12 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 12:41 PM

Here's the link to the story about the total smoking ban in CA. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11882052/

Now I know who initated it...if I ever get a fine, I now know who to sue. The B*tches name is margo arnold.

Quote

Officials are determined to clear the air here — no ifs, ands or butts.

By turning smokers into secondhand citizens...with no more rights then slaves had. GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never actually wished harm on a specifc person, but this B*tch has changed that. I can't say anymore in that regard since it would violate the law, not to mention the guidelines. All I will say is that what goes around comes around. I would love to see her need a doctor's service, and the only doctor around being a smoker: "Sorry miss, but I can't help you since I'm smoking a cigarette and you would get a headache."  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

Quote

"Secondhand smoke takes eight years off your life," she says.

Wonder how many years the massive car exhausts takes off? When this c**t does something about the cars she can come talk to me. Man I hope somebody sues her. She doesn't enjoy the protection of being a "government agent". As far as I'm concerned this s**t has attacked every single smoker, and self defense is in order.

According to MSNBC a smoker can smoke in their car...unless the windows are rolled down. FTS! And FTB! Smokers NEED to unite and start filing massive lawsuits, or whatever they have to do. They NEED to start fighting back.

Thank GOD I don't live in a facist town like that...Cause it's sh*t like this that makes people snap and go on shooting sprees.

Edited by LORD of the SWORD, 18 March 2006 - 12:47 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#13 Chakoteya

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 12:51 PM

Would these massive lawsuits be on a par with the ones filled against the tobacco companies by the people who got ill because of their product?

Actually, in the interests of fair play, I'd love to see some one do it.

And then I'd love all the governments of the world to wake up and say - OMG, the cost to our citizen's health from tobacco and vehicle exhaust fumes is too much now. We must take action. Now.

(I regard the infernal combustion engine as public enemy number two. I'd love to have it taken out of private ownership and only used by public transport vehicles and essential services. And I'd love tobacco to be put on a legal par with cannabis too. But, it ain't gonna happen, sadly.)
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#14 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:01 PM

View PostChakoteya, on Mar 18 2006, 12:51 PM, said:

Would these massive lawsuits be on a par with the ones filled against the tobacco companies by the people who got ill because of their product?

Those lawsuits I don't agree with. I can understand those who, back in the day, were unaware of the harmful effects of smoking...they have a legit complaint. But those that know about the effects and then turn around and sue...don't agree with that. They knew the risks.

But to answer your question: No, I'm hoping the smokers file MORE lawsuits then those against the tobacco.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#15 Enkanowen

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:03 PM

brilliant! I wish they would do that here in Ontario. I think, by your reaction LotS, I really recommend you see a doctor about your addiction to tobacco. Smokers do not need to unite; they need to seek help.

If I smoked weed in public, I would get arrested if caught. Yet weed is less addictive than tobacco and when smoked through a waterpipe has 80% less carcinogens than a joint and overall is less carcinogenic than cigarettes. When eaten or drank as a tea  has none at all. It doesn't drive my blood pressure up the roof or  give me heart disease, and on top of it all it is the gentlest painkiller you can have in your system. It doesn't make people violent like alcohol does, yet if I were to have it on my person in the US I would be arrested and put into jail.

#16 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:08 PM

View PostEnkanowen, on Mar 18 2006, 01:03 PM, said:

brilliant! I wish they would do that here in Ontario. I think, by your reaction LotS, I really recommend you see a doctor about your addiction to tobacco. Smokers do not need to unite; they need to seek help.

I disagree. Smokers NEED to unite, otherwise people like this B*tch will eventually turn them into the new slave class. As for my addiction...I can, and have gone, several hours and more without. But if I'm outside, you're damn right I'm going to smoke if I want.

Quote

If I smoked weed in public, I would get arrested if caught. Yet weed is less addictive than tobacco and when smoked through a waterpipe has 80% less carcinogens than a joint and overall is less carcinogenic than cigarettes. When eaten or drank as a tea  has none at all. It doesn't drive my blood pressure up the roof or  give me heart disease, and on top of it all it is the gentlest painkiller you can have in your system. It doesn't make people violent like alcohol does, yet if I were to have it on my person in the US I would be arrested and put into jail.

Difference being that smoking is LEGAL. They can try the prohibiton route again, with cigarettes. Didn't work back then, won't work now.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#17 Enkanowen

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:09 PM

but alcohol is legal and you can't drink in public either

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Mar 18 2006, 01:08 PM, said:

I disagree. Smokers NEED to unite, otherwise people like this B*tch will eventually turn them into the new slave class. As for my addiction...I can, and have gone, several hours and more without. But if I'm outside, you're damn right I'm going to smoke if I want.

several hours... how about days? or weeks? months? years?

Edited by Enkanowen, 18 March 2006 - 01:10 PM.


#18 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:11 PM

View PostEnkanowen, on Mar 18 2006, 01:09 PM, said:

but alcohol is legal and you can't drink in public either

Apples and oranges. You CAN drink in public. A bar is a public place. You can't have an open container on the street though.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:11 PM

View PostEnkanowen, on Mar 18 2006, 01:09 PM, said:

several hours... how about days? or weeks? months? years?

I quit once for 5 years. Does that answer your question?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#20 Enkanowen

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:18 PM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Mar 18 2006, 01:11 PM, said:

View PostEnkanowen, on Mar 18 2006, 01:09 PM, said:

but alcohol is legal and you can't drink in public either

Apples and oranges. You CAN drink in public. A bar is a public place. You can't have an open container on the street though.


only in licensed places and only within that place. Smokers can smoke in a public place if it is a designated smoker's area with its on ventilation system



View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Mar 18 2006, 01:11 PM, said:

I quit once for 5 years. Does that answer your question?

but you started again.



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