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beneath the Mexican flag

Immigration Federal Bill 2006 Protests California

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#1 scherzo

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:33 AM

Oh dear... :Oo:
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Whittier area students from Pioneer, California and Whittier high schools walked out of classes to protest the proposed federal immigration bill March 27, 2006. The protestors put up the Mexican flag over the American flag flying upside down at Montebello High.
I see our "hard working" stealth visitors from south of the border have an ironic streak of anti-Americanism in them. Not exactly sure why, but I'd kind of expect better manners from foreign invaders. I think it's high time we treat illegals like what they are,("criminals" for anyone wondering) or consider our status as a sovereign nation officially null and void.  I've always thought so...but seeing as how they've gone and made me MAD...I'm feeling a little more uh, "inflexible", than usual. Get them gone NOW!  :angry:

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#2 Captain Jack

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:44 AM

Damn right.  I fully agree with you on this.

It's crazy.  They come to the US illegally, but essentially hate the country.  If they like the Mexican flag so much, then why be in the US?  Money.  I'd love to see tall walls put up, and some serious beefing up on the border patrol.

Now, don't get me wrong, if anyone want's to immagrate to the US, by all means, come on over.  But do it LEGALLY.  Every nation on EARTH has its own rules on how to do this, and America shouldn't be excluded from that right.  If some one doesn't love this country, then they shouldn't be here.  And if some one comes here illegally, they are a criminal, period.
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#3 Spectacles

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 06:58 AM

Well, I don't know that the antics of high school kids can be safely said to represent the views of all illegal immigrants. Some have been in this country for years, working and raising families and being good neighbors.

HOWEVER, I can't for the life of me understand how anyone who is here illegally thinks that he or she is entitled to anything but deportation.

If I were to go plop myself down in another country without going through immigration, I can't imagine that I'd run around waving the American flag and insisting that I be treated "fairly" as a de facto citizen.

I truly don't get this....
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#4 Tricia

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 08:38 AM

Well, first of all you have to consider that the majority of these protesters ARE teenage kids.

This is likely their first experience with activism.  They feel very strongly about the issue.  Most of them were born here. This is the only life they know.  

The part of the immigration bill that has them upset is the thought of declaring their little old Grandma a criminal.  

Grandma might not be a legal immigrant but the idea of their Abuela being thrown in jail or deported...angers them.

A  lot of them don't understand all the ramifications of these  immigration reforms.  The thing that set them off was the threat, real or perceived, to their family members.  That's all they have heard or what got their attention.

Them carrying their flag doesn't bother me anymore than those of Irish or Italian heritage...or any other organization or ethnic group...carrying their own flags in parades or whatever.  

As to any actions with said flags or the US flag....I would be more upset if they were burning the US flag....but just carrying the flag of their heritage? No.


It's not necessarily anti-Americanism....just a rallying point for young people of a certain heritage, to show who or what they are from originally.  


We've had those protests by high school students here in Texas, specifically Houston.    The worry over family members status is the main motivating force that I am hearing.  Plus I'm sure that getting out of class didn't hurt either. :hehe:

Not questioning their belief in the cause but for every kid who really believes and feels strongly there is at least one who is just hanging out with their friends and goofing around.

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#5 Julianus

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 08:42 AM

Once again our valiant legislators are rushing to man the barricades...on both sides. As I understand it there are two bills, one in the Senate that includes an instate tuition for illegals a clause and a House bill that makes entering the country illegally a felony. Whoopty do.
I believe we already have laws and the problem is enforcement, the responsibility of the executive branch. And GW has flat out said he's not gonna do that. So what if the Mexican Army is coming into the U.S. to protect illegal smuggling! For this I could see impeaching him.
Of course now that there are something like 12 million illegals in the country. All would have to have their "due process," which the way our legal system "works" could generate appeals for years and years. Do you think we could pass a law to draft lawyers into  a system that would expedite the process? I think we could pay the prosecutors and defense attorneys at the same rate as army specialists, the judges the same as sergeants with some snappy stripes for their robes. I suppose we could forgive their school debts so they can't say it is punitive.
I do think it might be fun if they try to enforce laws punishing employers of illegals. How many legislators, judges, police, big campaign contributors, and talkshow hosts would get caught up in that?
The only realistic way I can see getting rid of illegals is to require proof of citizenship before any benefits are extended. Also, I think we would have to amend the Constitution to change the clause about if you are born here you are a citizen.

#6 Themis

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:11 AM

View Posttrikay, on Mar 29 2006, 01:38 PM, said:

Them carrying their flag doesn't bother me anymore than those of Irish or Italian heritage...or any other organization or ethnic group...carrying their own flags in parades or whatever.

I don't care about anybody's age.  A parade or celebration is a whole different animal from a protest.  They're protesting being called criminals, when they are criminals.  They have no rights and should be damned grateful they've been getting work (sh*t work but paying more than in Mexico, or they wouldn't be here), medical care, education, etc.  

Note - I'm not saying many illegals haven't become upright, productive good citizens.  I'm saying that when all is said and done, they are illegal.

I could actually go for a guest worker program.  And lenience of some kind for those who have been here a long time and are the aforesaid upright, productive good citizens.  Been here less than, say, five years?  Go HOME and do it the right way.

Why don't we just make Mexico the 51st state?  It would simplify everything....  At this rate, Mexico should annex the US.  The whole situation is one of my boiling points.

OMG, I'm agreeing with scherzo... :blink:

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#7 Tricia

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:31 AM

View PostThemis, on Mar 29 2006, 02:11 PM, said:

View Posttrikay, on Mar 29 2006, 01:38 PM, said:

Them carrying their flag doesn't bother me anymore than those of Irish or Italian heritage...or any other organization or ethnic group...carrying their own flags in parades or whatever.

I don't care about anybody's age.  A parade or celebration is a whole different animal from a protest.  They're protesting being called criminals, when they are criminals.  They have no rights and should be damned grateful they've been getting work (sh*t work but paying more than in Mexico, or they wouldn't be here), medical care, education, etc.  

Note - I'm not saying many illegals haven't become upright, productive good citizens.  I'm saying that when all is said and done, they are illegal.


Themis


But Themis.....they are protesting in honor/memory/whatever for those members of their families who might be part of the group affected.....maybe everyone on their family came here legally.

We don't know their individual situations.

Just because you protest something does not mean that you are necessarily one of that group.

Or that you necessarily understand all the parts of what you are protesting.

Like I said....I would be more upset if they were burning the US flag....


And believe me from past protests of other issues.....I have seen people who were born in the US from families who have been here for generations do just that.  

Just carrying a flag is far different from abusing that flag or any other flag. It is just a rallying point, not an insult.

That's just my opinion tho. :whistle:

We are all going to perceive this situation differently. ;)

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#8 waterpanther

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:32 AM

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Most of them were born here. This is the only life they know.


Born here=American citizen.

American citizens, last I heard, had the right of free speech and the right to petition their government.

Despite Michelle "Arbeit macht frei" Malkin.
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#9 Godeskian

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:32 AM

Question.

If a person is born on US soil, do they automatically have the right to become a citizen?

What if their parents were illegal immigrants?

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#10 waterpanther

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:35 AM

Any person born on American soil is an American citizen, regardless of the status of his/her parents.

Edited by waterpanther, 29 March 2006 - 09:36 AM.

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#11 Delvo

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:37 AM

People born in the USA are citizens already; they don't need to "become" one. (It's led to a lack of comprehension of, and great reduction in, the difference between citizenship and non-citizenship, since it means practically everybody is one and nobody had to give any thought or effort to it.)

#12 Godeskian

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:56 AM

Thanks, I was just trying to make sure of that with regards to Themis' assertion that all of them are already criminals. Mexican immigration, both legal and not has been going on for a long time, certainly long enough for some of them to have kids that are now going to college to protest.

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#13 Themis

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 10:29 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Mar 29 2006, 02:56 PM, said:

Thanks, I was just trying to make sure of that with regards to Themis' assertion that all of them are already criminals. Mexican immigration, both legal and not has been going on for a long time, certainly long enough for some of them to have kids that are now going to college to protest.

People who came here illegally are criminals.  Period.

As I said, I could favor amnesty for those who have been here maybe longer than five years and maybe meet some other qulaifications (like maybe learning English!).

Their kids are citizens, unfortunately for the whole messy situation.  Anybody know if those kids have dual citizenship if their parents are citizens of Mexico??

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#14 Godeskian

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 10:45 AM

View PostThemis, on Mar 29 2006, 04:29 PM, said:

View PostGodeskian, on Mar 29 2006, 02:56 PM, said:

Thanks, I was just trying to make sure of that with regards to Themis' assertion that all of them are already criminals. Mexican immigration, both legal and not has been going on for a long time, certainly long enough for some of them to have kids that are now going to college to protest.

People who came here illegally are criminals.  Period.

I'm being unclear. I agree that people who come to the US (or any country for that matter) Illegally are criminals. I was objecting to your assertion that everyone protesting has to be a criminal. Some of them may be american citizens born to illegal immigrant parents.

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#15 Rhea

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 10:52 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Mar 29 2006, 06:32 AM, said:

Question.

If a person is born on US soil, do they automatically have the right to become a citizen?

What if their parents were illegal immigrants?

Doesn't matter. If you're born here you have the right to citizenship.
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#16 G1223

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 10:56 AM

View Posttrikay, on Mar 29 2006, 09:31 AM, said:

But Themis.....they are protesting in honor/memory/whatever for those members of their families who might be part of the group affected.....maybe everyone on their family came here legally.

Ah yeah that great memory of their father comming to America in a illegal manner. Who took a job and worked like a slave (which he was) and never got an education and finally got a woman pregnant so he could not be deported and now they could send their kid to school for free and they could get free medical care and be proud of their being Mexican and also enjoy the American way of life.

The other story

Or of the guy who came to America from mexico who did so legally and told his children that they were AMERICANS. He makes them learn English as he knew that was the way to pull his family out of the barrio. He worked hard but knew he was earning his way to a better life if not for him then for his kids.

Of the two the one story worth remembering is the second of them.


Now as to the Mexican army supporting smugglers getting across the border I think that should merit an ambush and deliberate slaughter of any group comming across which has any such military support.
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#17 enTranced

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 11:21 AM

View PostSpidey, on Mar 29 2006, 08:44 AM, said:

Damn right.  I fully agree with you on this.

It's crazy.  They come to the US illegally, but essentially hate the country.  If they like the Mexican flag so much, then why be in the US?  Money.  I'd love to see tall walls put up, and some serious beefing up on the border patrol.

The Great wall of America!

Hey France, want a slightly used statue back? We don't need it any more.....

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#18 G1223

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 11:41 AM

So I take it Et that you favor doing nothing to try and stem the flow of illegals. why not let them vote as soon as they get here. Give them full social secuirty for their grandparents who are still across the border. Sounds like a good plan.
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#19 Lin731

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 11:43 AM

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I don't care about anybody's age. A parade or celebration is a whole different animal from a protest. They're protesting being called criminals, when they are criminals. They have no rights and should be damned grateful they've been getting work (sh*t work but paying more than in Mexico, or they wouldn't be here), medical care, education, etc.

Actually, 40 percent of them are working in construction now (far more that those working in sh*t jobs). Construction under the table pays about 10.00 bucks an hour. Ask any American working in construction since it's driven their wages down to that range since the huge influx of illegal workers.

Quote

The Great wall of America!

Hey France, want a slightly used statue back? We don't need it any more.....

Yeah God forbid we put a stopper in our swiss cheese borders and runaway illegal immigration problem in this country. Maybe we ought to change the inscription to read "Give us your tired, your poor, your dirt cheap laborers".  How UnAmerican to expect people to come here legally (as our ancestors did) instead of slinking across the border in the dead of night, having kids so they can't be deported, draining the American taxpayer for welfare, education, medical care, law enforcement, border enforcement while becoming the largest source of income for Mexico. If anything, we should be ashamed of ourselves for leaving our borders poorly protected thus allowing some 12 million illegals that we know nothing about to roam free in the US. Heck maybe we ought to Annex Mexico, in another 30 years at the rate of illegal immigration, most of them will be HERE already anyway.
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#20 Godeskian

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 11:51 AM

View PostLin731, on Mar 29 2006, 05:43 PM, said:

How UnAmerican to expect people to come here legally (as our ancestors did)

I'm curious Lin, have you ever looked at what is required to emigrate to the US?

I have as I seriously considered it once, and let me tell you. Unless you're a PHD, an MD, or are coming in with excessive wealth then you might as well not bother.

Being unfortunately only high-school educated, single, and not having pretty pieces of paper to prove that my skills are of a good level, and because i'm not a millionaire I cannot emigrate to the US.

So while I agree people should come legally, you'll get absolutely no sympathy for the goverment that makes it so bloody hard to emigrate.

Edited by Godeskian, 29 March 2006 - 11:51 AM.

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