Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

beneath the Mexican flag

Immigration Federal Bill 2006 Protests California

  • Please log in to reply
213 replies to this topic

#41 offworlder

offworlder

    pls don't kick offworlders, we can find a place too

  • Islander
  • 5,363 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:29 PM

you can come and visit anytime, Gode, ......... just don't smuggle yourself in ;)

(hey, how would London like it if I came in illegally, smuggled?)
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#42 offworlder

offworlder

    pls don't kick offworlders, we can find a place too

  • Islander
  • 5,363 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:31 PM

____________________________________________

now this is really weird: what the heck does the mexican flag have to do with USA? I understand, least I try to, my neighbors speaking foreign languages around, Indian and Pakistan, plus Spanish, a little Korean, though they seem to do Amer-English as well, as I would be expected to do living in a foreign place like Guadalahara. But flags?! that is not cultural like language, that is statehood, nations, countries: no Mexican flag to wave over my sea-to-sea fields of grain!!

I think these protests yesterday were way out of line: not that they were done, but the way they were done, and how hypocritical they were with possibly so many illegals (or children of illegals) making up the protest population; I was like, oh no way can I support that done that way.

Now don't get me wrong, the mexican flag looks nice, good colour, nice emblem, but that emblem belongs in Guadalahara, not in Sacremento or Flagstaff, Taos or Ft Worth, or Denver or Portland. This is our nation, dangit, and any other flag should be on a separate pole and lower than! (and all this because of smugglers?! daaaaang)
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#43 enTranced

enTranced

    Chasing Your Starlight!

  • Islander
  • 15,772 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:35 PM

Another well know paper has weighed in on this issue :

Guess Who!

enTranced  :whistle:
Posted Image

#44 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:38 PM

Wow that's really extreme, too much so IMO. Typical US government though. Go from doing nothing to going wayyyyyyy too far.

If it were me, here's what I'd do. I'd start levying huge fines against any company found to be employing illegals (no more Oops, MY bad by companies like Walmart) or construction firms undercutting the competetion by employing illegals at half the wages off the books.

I'd also deny benefits (short of emergency medical care) to illegals. They aren't entitled to them in the first place. No welfare, food stamps, drivers licenses etc.....I'd still allow the kids to attend school and provide what they needed Special Ed, Spanish to English langauge help etc... but that's it.

I'd grant Amnesty to those who'd already been here for at least 5 years and allow them to apply for work visa's and take the Citizenship test (but they'd have to meet the requirements of passing it just like any other naturalized citizen had to).

I WOULD put up a wall though (as much as I don't want to) I simply don't see another way to effectively close off the border. I wish I DID have a better idea but I don't.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#45 Captain Jack

Captain Jack

    Where's the rum?

  • Islander
  • 14,914 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:47 PM

There is still a chance for them to become citizens folks, it's just they don't want to be.

500,000 protestors, some of which screwed up highway 101 in LA by walking on it waving the Mexican flag should be an eye opener, guys.  Last time I checked, California is part of the United States, not Mexico.

Anyone who waves the American flag upside down, or burns it deserves NO respect from any American citizen.  They come here and pay NO taxes, get paid in CASH, some bring drugs, some bring crime, take advantage of free health care that's kiling state funding, as well as get foodstamps somehow from the State as well.

How easily people forget about the incidents where mexicans shoot at American border patrols just so that more illegal immigrants can come through.

Sorry, illegal, is illegal.  And no one should be payed tax free if American citizens can't be.  This has been illegal for a long time now, and no one's enforced it properly.  It's got to stop.  It isn't hard to become an American citizen at all.  And if some one doesn't want to be, the get out.  SImple as that.  Otherwise, the US is screwed.

Want more examples of problems?  Here you go:

LA gangs, consisting of mexicans have been run out of LA by new mexican gangs.  Where did they go?  Oakland.  So far, there have been 31 murders this year there.  Gang related.  These folks can't be found.

This isn't just about our friends south of the border either.  This is about ANY ONE who is here illegally from any country.  San Francisco has quite an underground prostitution ring going around from Asia.  Mostly illegals who smuggle illegals to make cash money, and LOTS of it.

They're not here because they love America, and live the American dream (if such a thing really exists).  They're here to make money-and LOTS of it.  When they're done, they leave.  San Jose, after the dot com bust lost 30,000 indians alone practically overnight.  They made their money, and went back to India after that.  Silicon Valley STILL hasn't recovered from the dot com bust.
Posted Image
689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#46 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:54 PM

View PostLin731, on Mar 29 2006, 07:38 PM, said:

Here's my analogy on being welcoming. If I invite you into my house, fine but do I throw open my front door and roll out the welcome mat to uninvited strangers? There's a difference IMH opinion between being a welcoming country and being a doormat for our Mexican neighbors to stomp on while disregarding our laws.

Quote

The Xenophobia in this thread is a little hard to take for this second generation Scottish American.

I'm scottish as well, my family's been here at least as early as 1820 (that's as far back as we've been able to trace so far) and like you, I got the temper along with the kilt. :D  I'm not sure why you view this as Xenophobia though because I don't see that as the reason. What I see is Americans saying "Enough is enough already". Not because they are Mexicans but because they are flooding our borders illegally and burdening our entire system : welfare, healthcare, education, law enforcement all down the line. They are also depressing wages in higher paying fields now too and THAT is where Americans seem to be drawing the line. They've always had a problem with the idea of people coming here illegally, drawing on our resources and tax dollars but when it gets to the point of being a huge burden on the taxpayers AND it's depressing wages, it's gone too far. We aren't talking a million illegals or 2 million illegals. We're talking 12 million and rising as much as 3 million a year. It's too much, no country can or should be expected to support such a huge influx. Even in my neck of the woods, we've seen whole towns transformed, culturally overrun by people that legally have no business being here in the first place. Americans get a bit twitchy when they see their hometowns completlely overtaken in a short span of time by people that A. Aren't here legally. B. Are collecting benefits off their tax dollars. C. Are working under the table and paying no taxes. D. Have rendered they're hometowns unrecognisable. Such sudden and jarring changes in culture are rarely embraced wholeheartedly but even less so given the circumstances surrounding it. This country was a melting pot with immigration that allowed large groups in but not so large that they drowned out the culture they were entering. THAT is a large part of the issue right now, having so many illegals entering that they aren't the ones assimilating to OUR culture, we're being forced to assimilate theirs. If I wanted to live in or visit Mexico, I'd go there, I certainly didn't expect to see it 10 miles away out here in the styx and happening in 5 short years. This town went from a mix od whites, blacks and hispanics to looking like Little Mexico in 5 years time and people resent it. When you can't get a job in their school district unless you're Spanish speaking now, that's telling. Whatever happened to coming here and learning the language? Now they come here and we're expected to shell out alot of extra money to accomodate their lack of learning our language.

WHAT LIN SAID!!!!

As for flags, flags used as motifs in restaurants and stores, as part of an ethic parade, in logos, etc. etc. etc. is fine.  Waving full-size flags in a a protest march really offends me, and I'm offended enough by the whole mess.  Aren't these people protesting about the "rights" of illegal immigrants?  What frelling rights are those?????

It is not "racist" to be upset with illegal immigrants.  Since we are talking those from Mexico, I'll say that it would be racist to diss all Hispanics.  It is not racist to protest those here illegally.

There must be some loopholes in moving to the US - I am as we speak listening to a Nashville country music dj with a decidedly English accent.  Whether she's married to an American or not, I don't know, but I don't think it takes an advanced degree to be a dj.  I know there are a heck of a lot of English accents in LA, along with all the other accents, and they can't all have advanced degrees.  Can you still get green cards to work?  I've known several folk here on that basis.

It's one think to ease the rules and take in people in danger of genocide or in need of asylum; it's another to take in people who just walk across the border every day.   Aren't we exporting enough jobs to Mexico to keep them home??!!  The rate it's going, US citizens will have to move to Mexico or China or India to find jobs that don't take an advanced degree.  

One vital point, which Michener made in "Centennial," was that all previous waves of immigrants, mostly legal but that's not crucial to the point, made it a priority to learn English (keeping their native language in their homes and neighborhoods) precisely in order to advance, earn more money, become part of the land of opportunity.  For whatever reasons, the wave from south of the border does not do that.  That alone increases the cost to the country of dealing with them in all the social services and legal worlds.  

It's a mess.  Wiser minds than mine need to find solutions because the country just can't keep absorbing them.  

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#47 Captain Jack

Captain Jack

    Where's the rum?

  • Islander
  • 14,914 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 04:02 PM

What Themis said.  :cool:
Posted Image
689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#48 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 04:12 PM

View PostSpidey, on Mar 29 2006, 08:47 PM, said:

Anyone who waves the American flag upside down, or burns it deserves NO respect from any American citizen.


Burning the flag is just totally wrong but do you understand why they might feel that waving the US flag upside down is right?  

( Tho it isn't according to the accepted flag etiquette)

Flying the flag upside down is an accepted distress signal.  It is only supposed to be used in case of real distress.....ship in trouble etc....

But it has been used in the past during anti-war rallies, other protests....the intention being to signal the person's fears and personal distress over the situation.

Not proper etiquette at all

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#49 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 07:42 PM

Quote

They're here to make money-and LOTS of it.


And they're going to do this by working substandard wages?  Right.

You might want to brush up on your flag etiquette, Spidey.  Flying the flag upside down has a legitimate symbolic meaning.
Posted Image

#50 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 11:09 PM

Gods, we have 6000 people protesting in Nashville tonight, waving those Mexican flags high.  Just because they've been here working does NOT make them here legally. The tv news is saying 25% of illegals were on legal visas when they arrived but outstayed their visas.  

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#51 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 29 March 2006 - 11:54 PM

Quote

You might want to brush up on your flag etiquette, Spidey. Flying the flag upside down has a legitimate symbolic meaning.
3 guesses what the symbolic meaning of hanging the Mexican flag above an upside down American flag is. I bet even the cabbage-for-brains delinquents of Whittier know the answer to that one.

-scherzo

Edited by scherzo, 29 March 2006 - 11:55 PM.

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#52 Captain Jack

Captain Jack

    Where's the rum?

  • Islander
  • 14,914 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 12:33 AM

View Postwaterpanther, on Mar 29 2006, 04:42 PM, said:

Quote

They're here to make money-and LOTS of it.


And they're going to do this by working substandard wages?  Right.

You might want to brush up on your flag etiquette, Spidey.  Flying the flag upside down has a legitimate symbolic meaning.

Yes, in other countries like India, Mexico, and the Philipines, the US Dollar goes a long way.

Oh, yes, I do know what the upside down flag means.  Maybe you should brush up on what it means when this is done with the Mexican flag is on top.  It's not legitamate in this cas as it has a different meaning.
Posted Image
689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#53 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 12:54 AM

You know there are times I wish we could give these kids the chance to be the lead in a new version of a man without a country. Imagine the kids being deported and not allowed back in the country for this behavior.  I know this will not happen but I do not look on these children as being american.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#54 Captain Jack

Captain Jack

    Where's the rum?

  • Islander
  • 14,914 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 01:22 AM

Nor do I, G1223.  Nor do I.
Posted Image
689 Reasons to Defeat Barack Obama in 2012:

https://www.national...at-barack-obama

#55 FnlPrblm

FnlPrblm
  • Administrator
  • 12,506 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 02:00 AM

View Postwaterpanther, on Mar 29 2006, 06:42 PM, said:

Quote

They're here to make money-and LOTS of it.


And they're going to do this by working substandard wages?  Right.

Not to get swept up in this (was only quickly glancing), but...

"Lots" is a relative term.  If I would make $70,000 a year here in Missouri, I'm making a lot compared to my fellow Missourian.  However, $70,000 is only moderate in some place like Los Angeles.  Now if I made $5.25/hour USD in Chicago working 8 hours a day...that's a darn good wage in Monterrey, Mexico.  Many illegals will work seasonal jobs in the U.S. during the summer months (doing things like lawn care for businesses) and return to Mexico for the winter months and live fairly comfortably compared to their fellow Monterrian.

Take a look at this report, citing the world-wide quality of life rankings.  Monterrey is the top Latin American city, but would rank fairly close to the bottom of U.S./Canadian cities in the terms of the report/study.

In short, making lots of money is a perception of whom you are comparing yourself to.  Pres. Bush makes what, $400,000 per year.  That's a lot compared to the average american, but nothing compared to King Abdullah of Saudia Arabia takes in per year.
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: The Beryl Coronet

The Boscombe Valley Mystery: "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing." --- Ralph Waldo Emerson 'Art,' 1841

"Such welcome and unwelcome things at once, 'Tis hard to reconcile." --- Macbeth IV.III.138-9


LauraBertram.net

"Once in one's life, for one mortal moment, one must make a grab for immortality; if not, one has not lived." -- Sylvester Stallone

Time to eat all your words, swallow your pride, open your eyes...Sowing the Seeds of Love - Tears4Fears

#56 FnlPrblm

FnlPrblm
  • Administrator
  • 12,506 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 02:39 AM

View Postoffworlder, on Mar 29 2006, 02:29 PM, said:

you can come and visit anytime, Gode, ......... just don't smuggle yourself in ;)

(hey, how would London like it if I came in illegally, smuggled?)

Hey, they liked me well enough...well until I was nearly out of money that is. ;)  Then they wanted me to go home.  :hehe:  j/k

Agreed, Gode, come anytime you wish.

Gode?  Who's Gode?  I don't know who you're talking about.  :whistle:
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: The Beryl Coronet

The Boscombe Valley Mystery: "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing." --- Ralph Waldo Emerson 'Art,' 1841

"Such welcome and unwelcome things at once, 'Tis hard to reconcile." --- Macbeth IV.III.138-9


LauraBertram.net

"Once in one's life, for one mortal moment, one must make a grab for immortality; if not, one has not lived." -- Sylvester Stallone

Time to eat all your words, swallow your pride, open your eyes...Sowing the Seeds of Love - Tears4Fears

#57 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 08:57 AM

View PostG1223, on Mar 30 2006, 05:54 AM, said:

I do not look on these children as being american.

I can't support that view.  Many, probably most, grow up to be good citizens, speaking English and becoming part of the general citizenry.  Assuming they take advantage of the free education and opportunities the luck of their birth here gives them.  I haven't read enough about the LA protests, but everyone I saw on tv last night in Nashville was an adult.


On the whole illegal immigration problem:  Just remember that the original inhabitants of the US had unlimited, unmonitored immigration and look where that got them!  They're living on reservations now.

FnlPrblm, you make excellent points about the relative value of money.  When I was paid an LA salary but lived in Nashville, I was doing great.  Now I'm paid a Nashville salary and I'm sinking.

I'm still going to try to employ good ole' boy Tennesseans to do my lawn.  At least they (sort of) speak English and can understand what I want.

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#58 Nittany Lioness

Nittany Lioness

    Craving a little perspective.

  • Islander
  • 3,537 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 09:28 AM

Hey Scherzo -- I'm hearing that the message of some of the protesters was worse than these young clowns; there's this silly notion that some of the southern U.S. is rightfully Mexico's and ought to be taken back.
Should we laugh or batten down the Alamo again?   :crazy: (Now where'd I put that musket? ...)

I'm cold Howard.jpg


#59 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 09:30 AM

Themis the idea of treating someone who pisses on you as someone who just has a different set of values is one of the reasons this has gotten out of control. Now we have the illegal population using it's american supporters as pawns to get all the benifts with none of the responsibilites.

The white kids in that crowd are doing this because it's 'cool' to do so. I think seeing Johnny Smith standing in Mexico trying to survive with no way home will open their welded shut eyes.

These kids are stupid and deserve the punishment that stupid people should get. Since they want to be Mexicans Let them become Mexicans.  Take away their American citzenship and let them enjoys the freedoms of being an illegal. And never let them back in.

This is cruel but it serves as an example to others. Otherwise give MExico back it's Province of California as I am tired of trying to support both the PRC and their Illegal add ons.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#60 enTranced

enTranced

    Chasing Your Starlight!

  • Islander
  • 15,772 posts

Posted 30 March 2006 - 09:51 AM

View PostG1223, on Mar 30 2006, 02:30 PM, said:

The white kids in that crowd are doing this because it's 'cool' to do so. I think seeing Johnny Smith standing in Mexico trying to survive with no way home will open their welded shut eyes.

These kids are stupid and deserve the punishment that stupid people should get. Since they want to be Mexicans Let them become Mexicans.  Take away their American citzenship and let them enjoys the freedoms of being an illegal. And never let them back in.

This is cruel but it serves as an example to others. Otherwise give MExico back it's Province of California as I am tired of trying to support both the PRC and their Illegal add ons.

I don't know about the stupid kids but you sure opened my eyes with this post.

enTranced
Posted Image



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Immigration, Federal Bill 2006, Protests, California

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users