42 replies to this topic

[DWF]

Spoilers

Quote

Rose was just a baby in 1987 when her father, Pete Tyler, was killed by a car. So the Time Lord takes her back to the year in question, to the spot where the accident happened. Of course, Rose cannot stand idly by and just watch her dad die alone, so she pushes him out of the way of the oncoming car. But in doing so, she upsets the balance of Time and changes history. Suddenly, Earth is under threat from the Reapers, terrifying pterodactyl-like demons that swoop out of the sky to rectify Time anomalies.

[Godeskian]

looking forward to seeing the reviews of this one

[Christopher]

Well, I read that Davies asked Paul Cornell to give this one a "New Adventures feel," and it does kinda have that -- it's got the more adult, dark, dramatic quality of the NA novels... which actually I didn't like too much.  My favorite NA books were often by Cornell, but the overall tone of that series seemed too much of a mismatch with Doctor Who, which I prefer when there's an element of fun to it.  Certainly this one was well-told and effective, but a bit too much of a downer for me.

I found it a little implausible that the Doctor would risk taking Rose to the day of her father's death, that he'd expose her to the temptation that it would be hard for any human being to resist.  He should've known better.  But maybe he'd come to trust her too much.  Or maybe he was still thinking in terms of the old temporal order where the Time Lords' stabilizing influence would keep this sort of thing from happening.

The monsters -- apparently called Reapers -- were unexpected, but it's a typically Whovian twist to a time-paradox tale, to embody the forces of temporal revisionism as scary beasties.  I wonder if the Reapers are related to the Chronovores from "The Time Monster."  They also reminded me a bit of the Vortisaurs from the audio adventure "Storm Warning."

[Mooky]

DWF, on Apr 27 2006, 08:10 PM, said:

Spoilers...

Somehow, I would've thought your sub-title for this one would've been "Dont Fear The Reapers."

[Mooky]

Christopher, on Apr 28 2006, 10:05 PM, said:

I wonder if the Reapers are related to the Chronovores from "The Time Monster."  They also reminded me a bit of the Vortisaurs from the audio adventure "Storm Warning."

Quote

The Reapers are reminiscent of the Vortisaurs of the Big Finish Productions audio plays, the Hunters of the Virgin New Adventures novel The Pit by Neil Penswick, and the depiction of the Chronovores (first featured in The Time Monster) in Cornell's own novel No Future.

http://en.wikipedia....o_aliens#Reaper

[Mooky]

I seem to remember LOTS asking why the Doctor didn't just go back in time to save the Time Lords.  Well, now ya' know why.

[Jazzer]

At first it struck me as creepy when Rose wanted to go back in time to the moment of her father's death to watch it happen.  Even if she was to go be with him as he lay dying, I can't imagine wanting to go back and watch someone I loved have an accident and die.  I would think that would be too painful and traumatic a thing to voluntarily watch.  

Then when she froze and didn't go to him before it was too late the first time, she asked if they could go back again.  That time she gave into the impulse to save him.  But it was still creepy to me when she asked if they could go back again after having just watched him die.  It just seemed to me like watching a video over & over of seeing a family member killed.    It would have made more sense to me for her to at least go a few days or more further back and have a little time to at least briefly get acquainted with him.  But then of course, if she'd done that instead, we wouldn't have had this particular episode.  

But in spite of the initial creepiness, I did think the rest of the episode was pretty good and touching, even if it was rather dark.  

When the car kept reappearing and disappearing, I figured that Dad would have to step out and let himself be hit and killed in order for things to be made right in the space-time continuum again.    

I thought the child actress who played little Rose mirrored some of adult Rose's facial expressions well.  She looked credible as a child Rose.  

The episode points to the interesting variety in the Dr. Who series.  I look forward to seeing more.

[Avalon]

Was still crying 15 minutes after the end of the episode.  "Who am I, love?"  "You're my daddy..."  Oh, man.  I'm still a mess.

Shaun Dingwall does one hell of a nice job with the role of Pete Tyler.  I hope we get to see Pete again, somehow -- his character was intriguing.  I loved how intelligent and honorable he was -- catching on so quickly to what was going on, accepting the oddness of the situation with ease, doing what had to be done to save everyone.  (Too bad he's Rose's dad, I'd love to have him become a Companion.)

I'd say there was more to who Pete really was, but the Doctor insisted that he was important because he was ordinary (I think), so maybe my suspicions are completely unfounded...

What was up with the Doctor's conversation with the couple who were getting married?  More "ordinary people" importance, or was there some significance I missed?  Who was their baby going to be?  Anyone we know?

My son recognized little Mickey before I did.  Had to chuckle at Rose prying him away, then commenting that she kept having to do that... Apparently, she's broken up with him, then?  She told her dad she had a boyfriend, but not any more...

"Why's everyone assume we're a couple?!"  *snicker*  Hey, come on, from the hug the two shared (which I thought was lovely, natch), can ya blame 'em?  

SCARY. FREAKING. MONSTERS.    Can't blame Rose for screaming -- I would have, too!  Or at least tried to.  I'm betting my vocal chords would have just frozen up and passed out...

Uh, there's more, but I can't remember it right now.  Great episode.  Broke my heart into tiny bits, but great episode.  *sniffle*

[KRAD]

^ The Doctor's whole point was that the married couple were ordinary people who did ordinary things. That was the magic -- and that's the one thing missing from the Doctor's own life. The Ninth Doctor is one who's fully aware of what he doesn't have. I think that's why he indulges Rose more than he has other companions.

As for Rose, I felt from the beginning that Jackie's comment to little Rose that her father died alone made quite the impression on the girl, and that was why Rose wanted to be there when he died -- not to watch him die, but to be there with him when he did so he wouldn't be alone.

[Cardie]

Christopher, on Apr 28 2006, 11:05 PM, said:

The monsters -- apparently called Reapers -- were unexpected, but it's a typically Whovian twist to a time-paradox tale, to embody the forces of temporal revisionism as scary beasties.

I think that's always been my biggest problem with the Whoiverse--the beasties are rarely that scary and always take me clean out of the moment.  These dragon demon gargoyles weren't bad, but I'd have been much happier if it was some beam of light or ripply air effect that was "sterilizing" and not creatures out of some sword and sorcery book.

I did think the character work and poignancy were great.  Rose was both disabused of her mother's lies about her dad but also able to see that in a crisis he could rise to the occasion, even if he wasn't the kind of guy you could trust to be there for you on a day-to-day basis.  It was also revealing that the Doctor didn't go for the obvious solution because it would bring Rose grief, just as he hesitated to fire the missiles at the Slitheen because he feared Rose might be killed.

I absolutely did not figure out that kid was Mickey.  I guess it didn't occur to me that he was that much older than Rose.

Cardie

[Lord of the Sword]

Nathrakh, on Apr 28 2006, 11:37 PM, said:

I seem to remember LOTS asking why the Doctor didn't just go back in time to save the Time Lords.  Well, now ya' know why.

Ok, going back in time to save someone who has died....Bad idea. lol. I have to wonder though, if the reapers would've come if she had saved her father the first time? The doctor said it was their being there twice that made it a vulnerable point in time.

Even still, the whole paradox involved.....

A very touching episode....Rose's line "You're my daddy..." very touching.

[NeuralClone]

This is one of my favorite episodes of the series. Shaun Dingwall and Billie Piper were absolutely outstanding in this. In short, I just love this episode.

[DWF]

Cardie, on Apr 29 2006, 01:23 PM, said:

Christopher, on Apr 28 2006, 11:05 PM, said:

The monsters -- apparently called Reapers -- were unexpected, but it's a typically Whovian twist to a time-paradox tale, to embody the forces of temporal revisionism as scary beasties.

I think that's always been my biggest problem with the Whoiverse--the beasties are rarely that scary and always take me clean out of the moment.  These dragon demon gargoyles weren't bad, but I'd have been much happier if it was some beam of light or ripply air effect that was "sterilizing" and not creatures out of some sword and sorcery book.


Cardie

Eeewwww, a beam of light? That's not too scary IMO and the look of the reapers was very European IMO and te reaction in Britain of the kids were interesting as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk.../14/19245.shtml

[Smitty]

To Avalon:

Wait for season 2! It's Pete Tyler on a parallel Earth in the two-parter Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel.

I'm with DW, beam of light ugh no thanks. The Reapers remind a little of paintings by Hieronymus Bosch and a little bit of HP Lovecraft's Cthulu mythos. They also remind of Edward Gorey's drawings.

This episdoe packed an emotional punch that's for sure. Though a beautiful episode I did not get me teary eyed as I did with Dalek. I was touched by Pete Tyler's selfless sacrifice to save the world and more importantly those he loved.

'twas a bit of a downer, but every episode doesn't need to end like "oh look we saved the world and evrything's super!"

Definitely one of the best this season, as well as the entire history of the show! There I said it!

Hmm, why no preview for next week?
Is it going to be pre-empted?
Is there going to be a Mutant-Monsters-On-The-Loose Movie-Marathon next week?  

-cs™

[Avalon]

Smitty, on Apr 29 2006, 08:16 PM, said:

To Avalon:

Wait for season 2! It's Pete Tyler on a parallel Earth in the two-parter Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel.

    Thanks for that.  Very happy now.  

[Smitty]

A Teaspoon And An Open Mind :: A Doctor Who Fan Fiction Archive

A nice site, though many of the stories are a bit too sexual and slashy for my tastes, but still lots of good reading there.

It also has an Essays section, with fans writing about various themes and theories etc concerning The Doctor and company.

One such essay looks at The Doctor and Rose's relationship, it's not sexual, leave that for the fanfics thank you very much.

It's titled Electra Complex and Survivor's Guilt by someone calling themself warinbabylon.

Yes it has relevance to this episode.

-cs™

Edited by Smitty, 29 April 2006 - 08:49 PM.

[DWF]

The Kaldor City review does have some interesting insights as well.

http://www.kaldorcit...les/father.html

Quote

Pete's sacrifice also brings out the Christian themes of the episode, which is, after all, a story about an ordinary man sacrificing himself to save the universe, in a church. At the same time, though, Pete is no saintly or Christlike figure; his very ordinariness exemplifies the doctrine that the meek and the humble, performing small and secret acts of self-sacrifice, are the most important of all. This is further brought out in the Doctor's own sacrifice of his life to save the people in the church (evidently in the hope that, being the oldest one there, it will take the Reapers longer to consume him and give the others a chance to escape), and the Doctor's two remarks about the importance of ordinary men and women to the universe. In particular, the second iteration of this message, to the young couple about to be married, stands in explicit contrast to the more pessimistic one given by the groom's father earlier in the story; where he grimly opines that the marriage won't last and is for all the wrong reasons, the Doctor sees it as the story of a miracle, with a baby and a loving relationship stemming from a random act of charity outside a nightclub. In the end, the story says, what matters is not whether you are a politician or world leader, but how you live your life and what you do with it.

I LOVED the Doctor's reassurance to the soon to be married couple of Stuart and Sarah and the Doctor envying them in a way for being able to live an ordinary life. And Pete's sacifice certainly made the father Rose wanted him to be and the hero of the story.

This story also had some familar Dr. Who touches to it, a monster, seeing things from their point of view, a church and the various religious themes that come with it and the very simple solution to the problem surrounded by a sacifice of sorts.

And for the record Rose did change history, her father didn't die alone this time and she got to say goodbye to him, in a very touching moment.

[DWF]

The ratings are out now.

http://www.gallifrey...yyAkpAlNmTKtkfP

Quote

Ratings for the eighth episode of the first season of the new series, Father's Day, on US television on the Sci Fi Channel, are in. The numbers varied from those as reported the previous week; while the average household rating was slightly down, to 1.14, the average viewing audience held at 1.4 million viewers. (We don't know what the exact relationship is between the rating and the viewership figures, apart from the fact that the viewer numbers held this week.) Season-to-date, Sci Fi reports that Doctor Who is currently averaging a 1.32 household rating and an average audience of 1.5 million viewers for the season.

[Sci-Fi Girl]

So many things I like about this episode.  


I got this feeling of some things being inevitable, time must be a certain shape, and yet it was still a little better for all Rose tried to change it.


Also I have this slightly strange idea, but I kindof like it.  When everything resets, everyone forgets right?  It all goes back to normal, as if it had never happened.  Except Pete died at the same moment that time reset.  He never had a chance to forget.  Almost as if he was a loophole in time, a little piece of what was erased remained in him, he kept that knowledge till he died.  He got to know his daughter, and he did not have to forget her, like everyone else did.



On a slightly more practical note here is a paradox that doesn’t make sense to me.  The reason Rose is motivated to do what she did is because of what her mother tells her growing up.  The “he was alone…” and so on.  But now that she has changed the past, we see that Rose grows up with a different story.  Which takes away the younger Rose’s motivation to change the past, so how can it still happen?


Oh, and my mom spotted Mickey right away, I didn’t even believe her at first!


SFG

[ChicaFrom3]

Sci-Fi Girl, on May 6 2006, 12:52 AM, said:

On a slightly more practical note here is a paradox that doesn’t make sense to me.  The reason Rose is motivated to do what she did is because of what her mother tells her growing up.  The “he was alone…” and so on.  But now that she has changed the past, we see that Rose grows up with a different story.  Which takes away the younger Rose’s motivation to change the past, so how can it still happen?

Well, you're right, her motivation changes--instead of being motivated to keep her father from being alone as he dies, she's motivated to be the mysterious blond girl her mother told her about, the one nobody knew anything about but who kept her father company as he died.