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Immigration Illegals

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#21 Nonny

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 08:11 PM

My beloved grandpa was an illegal.  Sure glad he got away with it.  :)  

Not happy about la reconquista though.  :(  

Anybody calls me a gringa gets to find out how little the word means to me, and how many of the corresponding insults I know.  :eh:  

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#22 Robert Hewitt Wolfe

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 01:41 AM

View PostMuseZack, on May 3 2006, 12:40 PM, said:

I'm actually to the right of Mr. Wolfe on this issue

It's not entirely lost on me that this is the first issue in recorded history which puts me to the left of both Zack and my wife.   :cool:

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#23 Robert Hewitt Wolfe

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 01:42 AM

View PostLord Martock, on May 3 2006, 12:57 PM, said:

Robert...have to disagree with you on this one.

I wouldn't starve...I would just have to start growing my own veggies and slaughtering my own beef.

That works, too.  Me, I can't do either competently.  So I'd probably starve.   :)

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#24 Captain Jack

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:06 AM

View PostLin731, on May 3 2006, 11:59 AM, said:

I must admit I'm pretty fed up with it myself. It stinks that Mexico is so poor and poorly led but that doesn't make it our problem. We have our own problems to deal with and illegal immigration has become a BIG one.

There are now militant Mexican groups forming that seem to think violence is the answer to their problems (along with attempting to "take back" border states.

Yep.

Mexico wants to or is boycotting US goods.  So, one good turn deserves another.  I dunno though.  For me, I wouldn't really be boycotting since I rarely eat at Mexican Restaraunts.  And in a way, I'd be afraid to now.  They might poison this gringo's meal.

To say that Mexico needs to get its act together would be redundant.  But it is true.  The country is screwed up.  Everything is for sale, even the police.  You go out to the desert, and you might not ever come out of it.  Mexico needs to treat its people better.  That, isn't OUR problem.  Despite what they think, the United States isn't part of Mexico.  I'd like to keep it that way.
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#25 Zwolf

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:29 AM

Quote

No Illegals means No Burritos...(You better think twice America)

This annoys me mostly because of its stupidity.  First, you don't have to be Mexican to make burritos, so it's a dumb statement.   But even if we were to take it as fact, there are a LOT of legal Mexican immigrants here.  They could make burritos.  We shall not want for burritos if we kick out the illegals!  So, it's a dumb threat.  I'm all for sloganeering, but, jeez, that dude just embarrassed himself.

The means of getting legal citizenship are not that unreasonable.  I don't mind at all if someone wants to immigrate here and be a productive citizen.  In fact, it's flattering that they'd like to be one of us, and if they go about it properly, I'd be glad to have 'em.    But it's not out of bounds to ask that they have respect for the laws of the land, go through the proper channels, and do it legally.  If this is a country they love and respect so much, then they should understand why there's a need to prevent illegal immigration.  My dad immigrated here from Europe after WWII, and he did it the right way.  He's a good citizen, a good taxpayer, and a great American.  And a lot of these people could be, too, if they just did the right thing and quit asking to be allowed to do something that's illegal.  Nobody lays groundwork for acceptance by breaking a law.

The whole thing's crazy.  

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#26 Lin731

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:33 AM

For me the issue isn't Xenophobia, racism or any other "ism". For me the issue is undocumented people crossing our borders by the millions. People we don't know ANYTHING about.  For me the issue is the burden placed on American taxpayers footing the bills for business owners "cheap labor". The issue for me is business which defends the "supply and demand" philosophy when it benefits them and when it doesn't, they circumvent it to export jobs to 3rd world countries or import cheap labor so they don't have to pay better wages. My issue is with rhetoric like "Living in the shadows" or "doing jobs American's won't do" when the truth is they were marching by the millions in our cities demanding amnesty (hardly the shadows) and the "jobs American's won't do" translates to "job's employers won't pay a decent wage for Americans to do". Next door to the local bowling alley in the next town up. There are 20 illegals living in a 2 bedroom house there, stacked up like cord wood. It's a transient lifestyle and not one any country should support. Why are they living like that? To send money back to Mexico and because on what they are making, they can't afford to do anything else.
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#27 veganmom

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 12:41 PM

I don't mean to derail the good, serious comments made in this thread. i just had to post this, though.

View PostLord Martock, on May 3 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

I wouldn't starve...I would just have to start growing my own veggies and slaughtering my own beef.

Well, I wouldn't have to do the latter...

GO VEGAN!
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#28 tennyson

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 12:57 PM

Quote

That works, too. Me, I can't do either competently. So I'd probably starve.

I'd be hopeful the skills I learned growing up on a farm would be enough. Although it didn't include any slaughtering there was plenty of picking up potatoes, shucking corn, stringing beans and picking cucumbers and tomatoes along with the occasional hay bailing. I guess I'd have to rely on my survival manuals for preparing meat.
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#29 RobL

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:07 PM

Quote

RHW:

And good freaking luck rounding up, arresting and deporting 11+ million people.

We really wouldn't have to "round them up" like that. I don't think anyone has any problems with the ones that are here, contributing, and not getting themselves into trouble.

What I have a problem with are the ones that are causing problems. So, what is a good solution? My idea is to run a immigration status check on everybody booked for a crime. Don't have documentation? Then your sent back to your country of origin. Get pulled over by the Police, and are driving without a license and are undocumented? Get booked and deported. So on and so forth.

It would solve a lot of these types of problems IMO.

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#30 Nick

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:23 PM

View PostKosh, on May 3 2006, 03:11 PM, said:

The only answer to this is to go after business that hire illegals. Make the fines big enough to make a difference. Anything that will hurt Wall Mart.

I have a bunch of hispanics in the family, and the grandfather of that group want rid of illegals.

^Ding ding ding!!

Illegally entering another country and then demanding the benfits of citizenship, respect for your native language and raising a big fuss over how valuable you may or may not be isn't the way to gain sympathy for a cause.

It's a bad situation we have with illegal immigrants being employed at below-market wages and  being taken advantage of--the solution is not to "make them legal" or grant them priveleges condoning their illegal immigration to this country.  The solution is going after the employers who are doing the exploiting and punishing them HARD so they lose and lose big by having illegally hired these people.

-Nick

#31 Messenger

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:39 PM

View PostRobL, on May 4 2006, 08:07 PM, said:

My idea is to run a immigration status check on everybody booked for a crime. Don't have documentation? Then your sent back to your country of origin. Get pulled over by the Police, and are driving without a license and are undocumented? Get booked and deported. So on and so forth.
Oh, you would be surprised how many times the criminal element, the ones breaking laws other than immigration laws, get deported.

The latest case was a man holding a girl at knife-point and having her drive around to ATM machines, even her home (Her mother noticed something suspicious.)

This man was deported 4 times.

Article


Ok, this will be a bit of a tanget, but it's meant to illustrate the myriad of problems which stem from massive illegal immigration:

The most overtly dangerous part of the immigration lies with the migrating gangs. They've reported problems all the way up in Canada with them.

They are also a growing problem in the US military:

Gangs claim their turf in Iraq

Quote

"A friend of mine is a recruiter," he said. "They are being told less than five tattoos is not an issue. More than five, you do a waiver saying it's not gang-related. You'll see soldiers with a six-pointed star with GD [Gangster Disciples] on the right forearm."

These most violent and dangerous elements in the group of immigrants are recieving military training and are battle-hardened.

#32 RobL

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:46 PM

^ but the minor crimes (misdemeanors) aren't even checked. Drunk driving for example. Even in California, where the drunk driving laws are usually the most severe, first offense, your out in a max of 12 hours on a O.R., and sometimes even less time. No immigration checks, no nothing.

Severe crimes, we should just turn them over the the Mexican (or whereever they are from) authorities, and let them jail them. Or charge their home countries for the jail bill.

Edited by RobL, 04 May 2006 - 03:47 PM.

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#33 veganmom

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:47 PM

Another quick thing I heard on NPR -- apparently England's having problems ( i was listening pre-coffee, so the recollection is vague).
How do you deport people when they claim to not have any papers proving any citizenship? Apparently, you used to be able, under international law, to just expel people, but you can't do that any more.

#34 RobL

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:52 PM

View Postveganmom, on May 4 2006, 01:47 PM, said:

Another quick thing I heard on NPR -- apparently England's having problems ( i was listening pre-coffee, so the recollection is vague).
How do you deport people when they claim to not have any papers proving any citizenship? Apparently, you used to be able, under international law, to just expel people, but you can't do that any more.

Easy. Ask them if they have any kind of documentation proving that they are citizens (birth certificates, driver's licenses (where you need a socal security number to get one), social security number, whatever). If they don't have it, they get sent back. If they refuse to say where they are from, expel them to the nearest country. Or Mexico.

Any other hurdle is artificial one created by law. Change the law, remove the hurdle.

Edited by RobL, 04 May 2006 - 03:53 PM.

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#35 Captain Jack

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 04:01 PM

Wal-Mart's going down!  :devil:  :hehe:
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#36 Lord Martock

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 01:36 AM

[quote name='Messenger' date='May 4 2006, 08:39 PM' post='839154']
[quote name='RobL' post='839134' date='May 4 2006, 08:07 PM']
My idea is to run a immigration status check on everybody booked for a crime. Don't have documentation? Then your sent back to your country of origin. Get pulled over by the Police, and are driving without a license and are undocumented? Get booked and deported. So on and so forth.

[/quote]


Okay....One more thing to say and then I will get off my soapbox.

Two or three days ago....4 cars were racing in the streets.  One car hit the center line and flipped 6 times before landing on it's roof.  The passenger...a 15 year old....died.  The driver doesn't have a drivers license....and admitted to the police he is here illegally.  The other driver they caught...also doesn't have a drivers license and is also here illegally.

I have also heard the slogan....Reconquista...several times the last few days.  Which basically means....the reconquest of the southwest by Mexico.

Now before I end this....I just want to add to those who think I am anti-immigration.  I have never claimed to be anti-immigration....I am all for Immigration the RIGHT WAY.  I am against those that come here Illegally and DEMAND the same rights as those that came here the correct way and became citizens.

Now I will get off my soapbox and go back to trolling the birthday threads.
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#37 Captain Jack

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 01:51 AM

^Wow, totally agree with ya.  I don't think anyone is really against immigration, as long as it is done the right way.  I feel the same way as you do on that.

Them saying thinkgs like "Reconquista" and waving around Mexican flags doesn't exactly help them.
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#38 Tricia

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 10:42 AM

I keep seeing people here referring to "Reconquista" as being something said by all at theses rallies .....and here is the only place I am seeing or hearing it, not even on any news reports locally

But do you think that is the opinion of all or do you think that it is just a small percentage of the whole group who just happen to be more pushy about gettign their mugs on TV or in the papers?

WE all know that people with the most extreme views of any situation are the ones who get on camera....because they want the attention

Not saying that the thought of "Reconquista" isn't out there but I don't believe it is the majority opinion.

On that note I believe that all immigrants who want the chance to live in the US need to do so legally....but there also needs to be a better program in place to accomodate those who wish to become US citizens or just to come work here--legally.

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#39 Captain Jack

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 01:28 AM

Today was another "Cinco de Mayo".  There were some small numbers of illegal immigrants taking advantage of this day and saying that this is Mexico, not the United States.
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#40 Call Me Robin

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 11:00 AM

The concept of reconquista seems to be a myth, folks.  More on it here.
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The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
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