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Women in combat

Women in Combat Military Women

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#1 Rov Judicata

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 12:54 AM

All right, we couldn't avoid this thread forever ;)

In light of PFC Lynch, and other female POW's, is it appropriate to have female soldiers so close to the front lines?

I definitely have strong opinions about this one, but I'll chime in later in the thread.
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#2 G1223

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 01:06 AM

Part of me says yes. Basically they have volenteered to take the risks that come with job.

The other part of me says no. At least not in a mixed unit. I am not worried about sexual contact but becasue War is maybe the next most horrible thing thing to homicide investgating.  In combat people form very strong attachments to folks it has been said many times "The men in my unit became my brothers I would die for them take risks for them I would not for anyone but family."

  Men by our nature trained in most cases to take care of our sisters. In a combat situation men might and I say might take an extra level of risk to protect the women in their units. That added level of risk will get men killed and that is whyI have reservations.
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#3 StarDust

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 05:25 AM

Of course women should be in combat. To say that we are less capable or willing to defend our country, or fight for our country, is ridiculous. And women actually have fought all through the centuries in northern europe as well as other places. But the spread of mediteranean values is probably another discussion.

Why shouldn't women fight? So stuff happens? It happens to men too. Women are just as tough, probably tougher. So again what's the big deal?

The argument about men having to, or being conditioned to, take care of women doesn't really hold any weight. That's their problem and something that should probably change. But in reality I don't really think it's an issue, just an excuse. When you stand side by side doing something, you become equals and I think, for the most part, all that falls away. As far as going to extremes to protect the soldier next to you, it's done if it's a man, so why would it being a woman be any different?

There's something wrong with a society that thinks the minority has to protect the majority, or that the minority is more capable of protecting the majority, or that the majority not only doesn't need to learn to protect itself but shouldn't be allowed to.

#4 AnneZo

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 05:43 AM

Conservatives Seek Curb On Military Moms

Quote

Healthy, responsible nations do not send the mothers of small children to or near the front lines — that violates the most basic human instincts," said Allan Carlson, a historian affiliated with the Family Research Council.

The FRC is a very conservative organization that thinks mothers belong at home. (Vacuuming in high heels and a string of pearls, no doubt.)

I say, these women had a choice, both about joining the military and about having a child while enlisted.  And, as has been pointed out already, women have fought alongside men for centuries. The concept of a female as a creature too fragile to be exposed to the exigencies of the world is a relatively recent development in Western Civilization.

Why don't I hear anyone bemoaning the deaths of male soldiers who had small children at home? Why not mourn the men who left behind pregnant wives and feel sympathy for the children who will never know their fathers?

Why is the life of a father of less value? If I were a man, I'd be pissed.

Quote

For now, the cause has found few champions in Congress or at the Pentagon; politicians and commanders are pleased by the all-volunteer military's performance in Iraq and proud that three ambushed servicewomen became national heroes. But the critics — mostly from groups opposed to the feminist movement — vow to maintain pressure in hopes the Bush administration might one day review deployment policies.

I quoted this part just...well, just because, I guess.

#5 Godeskian

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 08:13 AM

as antimilitaristic as i am AnneZo, i do find it offensive that my life is considered less valuable because i'm male. TO be honest, if a women wants to be a marien, or a front l;ine combat soldier, then good on them.

No one can say they weren't aware of the risks when signing up.

what's more, if i was a women, i think i'd be quite offended by the suggestion that i couldn't handle the risks if it came down to that. THe mindset that has people joining the military is much the same for men as it is for women

Edited by Godeskian, 13 May 2003 - 08:14 AM.

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#6 Enmar

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 08:49 AM

Rov, you have no idea what you're getting yourself into :p

Quote

G1223:
Part of me says yes. Basically they have volenteered to take the risks that come with job.

More than that. Please remember that this isn’t just any job, fighting is protecting your country and the lives of people you love. In some countries this isn’t as direct and obvious as in others, but patriotism is still an issue. Telling women that their country doesn’t need their help, that all the patriotic propaganda is for men, is more  than jut not hiring them to a job. It’s humiliating. It doesn’t matter what your view of militarism is, they have the right to have the same stupid drams men their age have.

Quote

G1223:
Men by our nature trained in most cases to take care of our sisters. In a combat situation men might and I say might take an extra level of risk to protect the women in their units. That added level of risk will get men killed and that is whyI have reservations.

This was proven wrong in research. The gender identity disappears as people train together. You care about your partners very much, it doesn’t matter what gender they are.

Women in combat - why not? by Captain Barbara A. Wilson, USAF (Ret)
http://userpages.aug...arb/combat.html

Idiotic myths and rumors about women in combat - very nice one :)
http://userpages.aug...barb/myths.html

"Be All You Can Be - Unless You're a Woman" ??
http://userpages.aug...barb/final.html
Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.

#7 Guest-AleisterCrowley-Guest

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 08:57 AM

Perhaps all women should be kept at home after all.  I mean really...could you imagine Lil waddling into combat.  What would she kill them with...harsh language?

#8 Bad Wolf

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:00 AM

awwwwww what's the matter Alisteir hon?  Can't handle a woman who can use her tongue for something other than pleasuring men?

:)
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#9 Guest-AleisterCrowley-Guest

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:02 AM

Licking envelopes mainly...and conveying my wishes to others...other than that...there's no way I'd let a barracuda like yourself pleasure me...

#10 Guest-katie-Guest

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:03 AM

Like USL could handle combat. One look into the enemy's eyes, and she'd flee in terror.

To used to message boarders who back down from her temper.

#11 Bad Wolf

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:04 AM

awwwwwwwwwwww, I'm cut to the quick.  Really.

BTW, um you're kinda blowing it on that "certain level of deniability" you were searching for.

;)

:lol:
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#12 Bad Wolf

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:05 AM

katie, on May 12 2003, 11:50 PM, said:

Like USL could handle combat. One look into the enemy's eyes, and she'd flee in terror.

To used to message boarders who back down from her temper.
Aw Alisteir hon!  You got a wittle girl to come help you!

Why bless your precious wittle heart.

I'm so flattered that you find me so.....
um......noteworthy.

Really.

:wacko:
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#13 Rov Judicata

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:06 AM

:rolleyes:.

Enough. AC-- You've been a valued poster here, raising interesting points from time to time. I don't know what got into you. You have a week to think about it.

Katie-- I don't know who you are. But you're using an anonymous proxy, and your one post is to attack another member. I'll see you in a week too.

-- Rov
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#14 Godeskian

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:12 AM

whoah

did we just have our first unilateral bans?

#15 Rov Judicata

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:20 AM

Gode-- Please consult this thread: http://www.exisle.ne...=ST&f=10&t=3826
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#16 Iolanthe

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:25 AM

Gode, if it makes you feel better he did consult with me, as the only mod present...
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#17 Godeskian

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 09:28 AM

fair enough, i hadn't seen the thread linked.

have now

please return to your regular women in combat scheduling

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#18 G1223

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 03:45 PM

Well I guess I am wrong we should put them on the front lines and see what happens. That will be the final determinator.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#19 Godeskian

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 03:58 PM

Ah, but how do you get past a society that has rejected the very notion of putting them in harms way for so long.

Lynch has proved that a great many people still feel that's the right way to do things

#20 Rhea

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Posted 13 May 2003 - 05:04 PM

Godeskian, on May 12 2003, 11:00 PM, said:

as antimilitaristic as i am AnneZo, i do find it offensive that my life is considered less valuable because i'm male. TO be honest, if a women wants to be a marien, or a front l;ine combat soldier, then good on them.

No one can say they weren't aware of the risks when signing up.

what's more, if i was a women, i think i'd be quite offended by the suggestion that i couldn't handle the risks if it came down to that. THe mindset that has people joining the military is much the same for men as it is for women
Quite right. ;)

As Annie poined out, the notion that women are too fragile for combat is quite recent as such things go, and was reinforced by the Victorians, unfortunately (who couldn't even bring themselves to call a leg anything but a "limb", so QED).
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