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Minuteman faces PC onslaught

Political Correctness Politics-American Minutemen

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#21 Bad Wolf

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Posted 17 May 2003 - 05:07 PM

AnneZo, on May 16 2003, 09:47 PM, said:

Applause

Absolutely.  PC-ism has gone off a cliff.
*bows*

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#22 QueenTiye

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 01:45 AM

This is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time.

There is no legitimate reason to object to the name "Minutemen."  

Going through the objections one at a time:

1. There are no "Minutewomen."  So what? I actually could stop there, but the point is - there are no minute men (today) either.  The teams calling on the legacy of the original "Minutemen" are claiming something of their spirit - and as such, can have minutewomen, minutekids, minutedogs...

2. The logo shows a firearm.  So what?  Nobody will ever be able to mistake the bearing of firearms shown in the minutemen logo for the bearing of firearms shown in some videos, some "action hours" or some "action flicks." The clear distinction - the representation of heroism during a period of war, versus the glorification of senseless violence - is more than evident.

3. Gender and ethnicity are two separate things.  What precisely do they mean by "single-gender ethnicity?"

Finally - comparing this debate to the debates about the use of a racial slur in sports is simply insulting to those who actually care about such things.  Changing from the "redskins" to the "redhawks" or removing the name "Mohawk" from a team that knows and cares nothing about the people and culture that belong to that name is responsible civic behavior.  Erasing history from popular usage in the name of political correctness is not.

QT

Edited by QueenTiye, 21 May 2003 - 01:52 AM.

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#23 ph3n1ks

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 01:15 PM

This is the latest in an effort to make langauge meaningless. The entire purpose of the PC movement has been to make American English a worthless means of communication.

Take for instance the collection of stories entitled "Politically Correct Fairy Tales." Reading this book is absolutely hilarious. It is also absolutely insulting.

It is a witch, not an 'alternative religion practicing womyn.'

In the attempt to offend noone, you convey no information worth conveying. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Apologize only for not thinking about your message before writing or spaking it.
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#24 sierraleone

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Posted 22 May 2003 - 08:42 PM

"alternative religion practicing womyn"

To me, that could be any religion other than the main religion. You'd half to tell me where and when this women lives for me to even start guessing what she practices/is *g* But I thought witches/"alternative religion practicing womyn" were now Wiccans ;)

Witches usually conveys a sterotype of ugly old ladies with warts that use magic to do horrible things to other people, but most stories I know that has witches in it has 'good' witches too. So "witches" is like a short cut to call someone a nasty women in more polite terms than bitch ;) :) It also gives me the idea of someone more caniveing (sp?). But theres no word for a good witch, that I can recall. I also don't like how, somehow, males with magical powers are nearly always good ;) :) Not that I really care, when just using these words in day to day language. I don't even like that most languages that have only two genders (no "it" category for nouns) it seems they usually make it a male ending if its plural and there is even only one man in a crowd of women. But I'm picky ;) This, though, Minutemen, is historical fact, it isn't a racial slur. If it was a slur towards men, or Minutemen, or something else along those lines. If their mascot was Joan of Arc, and they called her "Witch", it totally takes the meaning away (despite the fact (iirc) she was burnt at the stake for that supposive reason... lol). Its instead ridiculing her, and what she represents in history. And also, in a way, ridicules all women (and men) killed during those times for the same reason(s). Assuming the team's mascot "witch" was portrayed as witches are sterotypically ;) Ugly, cavorting with the devil, evil, etc :D (and assuming anyone cares about the history behind "witches" anyways)

Edited by sierraleone, 22 May 2003 - 08:44 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#25 Rhea

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 06:39 AM

What Ro said. Stupid, stupid, stupd. I don't believe it historical retconning (which will explain to you why I never tried for a career in academia :p :p).
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
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When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


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#26 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 06:56 AM

^ Pssst, Rhea, I haven't posted on this topic yet... ;)

Though I agree that its historical revisionism and does the real patriot women of the Revolution a disservice as well as the Minutemen...

Ro

#27 Rhea

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 08:42 AM

Ro-Astarte, on May 22 2003, 01:03 PM, said:

^ Pssst, Rhea, I haven't posted on this topic yet... ;)

Though I agree that its historical revisionism and does the real patriot women of the Revolution a disservice as well as the Minutemen...

Ro
Oopsie! Quite right, it was Queen Tiye. Sorry, QT!  :blush:  :blush:  :blush:

Anyway, I still agree. :p :p
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#28 ph3n1ks

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 11:25 AM

sierraleone, on May 22 2003, 09:49 AM, said:

"alternative religion practicing womyn"

To me, that could be any religion other than the main religion. You'd half to tell me where and when this women lives for me to even start guessing what she practices/is *g* But I thought witches/"alternative religion practicing womyn" were now Wiccans ;)
Which was exactly my point. If we do not have a state sponsored religion, then how can there be an alternative. To use most if not all of this PC stuff, makes a language meaningless.
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#29 sierraleone

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 11:37 AM

^ by "alternative" in a country with a secular government I just mean different from the average/norm, or perhaps better, a minority religion (As in further down the list than second/third most popular religion, that what it means to me, anyways).
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#30 ph3n1ks

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 01:01 PM

That is -exactly- what I mean. By attempting to offend none, you -inform- none.

There are supposedly 5 major religions and however many other religions. Which one is alternative? Without meaningful context, you cannot tell. All of the communication courses that I have taken have centered on concise expression of thought regardless of the media.

Edited by ph3n1ks, 23 May 2003 - 01:02 PM.

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#31 sierraleone

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 01:11 PM

^ I thought it was 6 major world religions....but as if I can recall them ;) I could only make educated guesses :) I'd probably get half right *sl decides to play :D *

Catholic/Christainity (yes, I put them under one category, along with the Protestants and all)
Judaism (sp??)
Sikhism
Islam
Hindu (don't know what the religion is called per say)

Only five I can think of, but I keep thinking their should be an oriental one there (Confusism or Taoism perhaps) but I have no idea how many people in the Orient still practice their traditional religions, because of conversion, and in China, the Communism government attitude toward religion, and because of the growing number of people non-religious (though this maybe a mostly Western Phenomenon).

Should Budhism be in there somewhere?? *shrugs* I know its practiced through many parts of Asia, but don't know the actual numbers for the various areas.

Edited by sierraleone, 23 May 2003 - 01:15 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#32 Call Me Robin

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 01:28 PM

Kosh, on May 12 2003, 04:35 PM, said:

G1223, on May 12 2003, 07:53 PM, said:

Well that was whatI was saying in the thread about the Washington redskins.  How far should this beallowed to go?
Well I guess we better get rid of the Patriots as a name bec ause somebody might be offened.
Minuteman is a long long way from a racial slur like "Redskin."


Chris Rock made a comment that the Washington Redskins are like having a team called the Newark N*gg*rs.
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#33 tennyson

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 01:41 PM

Hi Sierraleone go to www.adherents.com, it breaks this all down rather nicely and should provide you with the answers about religions that you are curious about.
Try it now, my spelling was never the best but the page should be there.

Edited by tennyson, 23 May 2003 - 01:46 PM.

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#34 sierraleone

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 01:44 PM

^ thanks Tennyson, but, um, the link doesn't work.... :)

Edit: Its working now, thanks :)

Edited by sierraleone, 23 May 2003 - 01:48 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#35 Bad Wolf

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 04:59 PM

Call Me Robin, on May 22 2003, 07:35 PM, said:

Chris Rock made a comment that the Washington Redskins are like having a team called the Newark N*gg*rs.
And he's damned straight RIGHT.

Lil
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#36 Rhea

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Posted 24 May 2003 - 01:59 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on May 22 2003, 11:06 PM, said:

Call Me Robin, on May 22 2003, 07:35 PM, said:




Chris Rock made a comment that the Washington Redskins are like having a team called the Newark N*gg*rs.
And he's damned straight RIGHT.

Lil
And I agree. Racially or religiously motivated and insulting names should go the way of the dinosaur.

However, the Minutemen were the Minutemen. We can't retcon them into being the Minutepersons because they just...weren't. :p :p
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#37 Bad Wolf

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Posted 24 May 2003 - 02:01 AM

WORD!!!!

:cool:
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#38 Rhea

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Posted 24 May 2003 - 02:03 AM

:ninjapooh:
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#39 Cuillin

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Posted 24 May 2003 - 03:57 AM

Wow, was I caught by surprise seeing this posted! I'm from the western part of MA. , most of which is UMASS country.  :cool:

Figured I'd mention, most of the folks I know want to keep the UMASS mascot as is! (AS do I). I was surprised to read in the local papers they were considering changing it.  Actually even in this part of MA the Minutmen were an integral part of the Revolutionary War.  

Just my 2cents being a local,
Chris

#40 sierraleone

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Posted 24 May 2003 - 04:53 AM

sierraleone, on May 22 2003, 06:18 PM, said:

Catholic/Christainity (yes, I put them under one category, along with the Protestants and all)
Judaism (sp??)
Sikhism
Islam
Hindu (don't know what the religion is called per say)

Only five I can think of, but I keep thinking their should be an oriental one there (Confusism or Taoism perhaps) but I have no idea how many people in the Orient still practice their traditional religions, because of conversion, and in China, the Communism government attitude toward religion, and because of the growing number of people non-religious (though this maybe a mostly Western Phenomenon).

Should Budhism be in there somewhere?? *shrugs* I know its practiced through many parts of Asia, but don't know the actual numbers for the various areas.
^ Theres my original rough list (and definitatly not in order ;) )

Heres what I found in the link:

1. Christianity: 2 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism: 900 million
No surprise for the first three

4. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
I didn't think to include this... I don't think of Atheism as a religion ;) Nonreligious might go on the list, as some believe in god, but don't follow a particular religion. Will try to see if there is a further breakdown later.

5. Buddhism: 360 million
Higher than I thought

6. Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
I suppose Confusism, Taoism and much older traditional aspects of their beliefs would go under here.

7. primal-indigenous: 150 million
While they do have similarities, I personally wouldn't put them all under one category. All organised religion has similarities as well. Though some might be critical of my putting all the different Christain religions together  :D

8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million
Interesting category, but it seems to generalize African religions. Don't know enough to know if it should be generalized such, but against it in principle currently ;) I suppose its easier than naming each group though.  ;) Though its probably better for their purposes

9. Sikhism: 23 million
Thought it was higher... though sometimes I confuse it with Islam for some reason  :angel:

10. Juche: 19 million
Something I never knew about before  :hehe:

11. Spiritism: 14 million
Another confusing to describe category :p ;) :D

12. Judaism: 14 million
I didn't know this went so far down there, though it might be 8th - 10th without a couple of these broad categories ;) Only 14 million?

Why do I remember learning in school of Judaism as one of the six major religions? Even taking out all the very broad categories possible, the highest it might come is 7th (and I don't know I'd take them all out, for this kind of thing broad categories can at times be very usefull)

1. Christianity: 2 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism: 900 million
4. Buddhism: 360 million
5. Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
6. Sikhism: 23 million
7. Judaism: 14 million

Maybe my text book was out of date? ;)
I suppose it comes from various factors, being where Christainity came from, in the area where so many religions were born.... And being high profile. Of course, maybe I learned more than the six major religions and I just forgot ;) :) Now that I've gone completely off topic.... :D :D :D Back to the subject ;) :) And I agree with Rhea :)
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html



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