80 replies to this topic

[DWF]

bobdylanite, on Jun 9 2006, 10:31 PM, said:

Quote

The power came from the TARDIS but Rose was in control and I don't know when season two will start over here, but I do like David Tennant so far.  

I mean leaving the phrase all over time, what was doing that?...

That was Rose using the power of the TARDIS to put the words everywhere they had gone, since the TARDIS can travel anywhere in space and time she could spread the words thoughout space and time.  

[NeuralClone]

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 9 2006, 10:16 PM, said:

As for the new doctor....not sure about him. Kind of liked the old one...even if he did ruin the movie Gone in 60 seconds for me....lol.

You should probably give David Tennant more than about 15 seconds of screen time before you make up your mind. It took me 3 or 4 entire episodes before knowing if I liked him or not.

[DWF]

NeuralClone, on Jun 9 2006, 10:35 PM, said:

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 9 2006, 10:16 PM, said:

As for the new doctor....not sure about him. Kind of liked the old one...even if he did ruin the movie Gone in 60 seconds for me....lol.

You should probably give David Tennant more than about 15 seconds of screen time before you make up your mind. It took me 3 or 4 entire episodes before knowing if I liked him or not.

I've liked Tennant from The Christmas Invasion onward, it was easier to like Tennant from the start than some of the others like for example Colin Baker.  

[Smitty]

Is this a form of predestination paradox?

Rose seeing the word BAD WOLF in her travels with The Doctor inspires her to use that as a warning of a future danger.

-cs™

[Christopher]

Well.  This was a lot more potent than last week's episode.  And what a climax!  This episode showed, perhaps more than any other, the extent to which this incarnation of Doctor Who is more Rose's story than the Doctor's.  Nothing drives that home like out-and-out apotheosis.  The Emperor Dalek may have had delusions of godhood, but Rose essentially became Time itself, with the omniscience and omnipotence of a god.

And let me tell ya, she was pretty hot that way.  I love powerful women.  Great eerie-sublime performance by Piper there.

The climax of the Doctor-Dalek face-off here reminded me of "Genesis of the Daleks" -- the Doctor is prepared to commit mass murder for the good of the universe, but can't go through with it.  Except that this time it's the population of Earth at stake, not just the Daleks.  This Doctor wouldn't have hesitated to exterminate every last Dalek.

But the weakness of this episode was how casually it treated the mass devastation of the Earth, the bombarding of whole continents being treated as a throwaway thing.  I have to wonder, if Vortex-Rose has the power to restore life, why did she only restore Captain Jack, and not Lynda or all the other people on the station, let alone the countless millions killed down on Earth?

Anyway, it's a shame Eccleston only had one season, but at least he got a good sendoff.  His holographic message to Rose was a good farewell, and so was his pre-regeneration scene.  Great last words.  "You were fantastic.  Absolutely fantastic.  And you know what?  So was I!"  And so they were.

bobdylanite, on Jun 9 2006, 10:19 PM, said:

I'm still not exactly clear on the whole Bad Wolf thing... Was that the Tardis doing that somehow?  Or Rose?  And why that particular phrase?  Oh well... Still a great episode!

Probably it was the founders of the Badwolf Corporation, the folks in charge of the satellite, who chose that name for whatever reason.  Rose, infused with the power of the time vortex, took that name and "seeded" it throughout history, everywhere she and the Doctor travelled, as a trail of breadcrumbs, so that she'd eventually notice the phrase and be able to put it together, to realize that she had a way of getting back to that point, to the Badwolf-owned satellite where the Doctor needed her.  It was a trigger her future, vortex-infused self provided in order to guide her past self to the point where she'd open the heart of the TARDIS, absorb the vortex, and complete the circle.  It was literally a self-fulfilling prophecy, and a self-generating one as well.

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 9 2006, 10:24 PM, said:

Well something like that would put a slight delay. But if they regenerate upon dying....wouldn't they have simply regenerated in space? Granted they probably would die, repeatedly, in the vacuum of space...til they were picked up.

Or am I missing something?

A couple of key things.  One is that regeneration isn't all-powerful or infallible.  A Time Lord can regenerate from near-death, but not from absolutely anything.  Something severe enough to cause instant death would probably be unsurvivable.  A Time Lord probably couldn't regenerate from getting his head blown off, say.  Also, it's been shown that regeneration isn't always a sure bet -- a Time Lord is fragile after it happens, and can be in danger of having the regeneration fail, perhaps terminally, if it doesn't go quite right.

(Also, if we're talking about a planet being destroyed, why are you assuming any Time Lords would be able to survive such a cataclysm intact?  They'd probably all be completely vaporized.)

Also there's the simple fact that Time Lords only get a dozen regenerations.  Even if that "die repeatedly in vacuum" scenario could happen, they'd have to get picked up pretty quickly before they ran out of lives.

[NeuralClone]

DWF, on Jun 9 2006, 10:38 PM, said:

NeuralClone, on Jun 9 2006, 10:35 PM, said:

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 9 2006, 10:16 PM, said:

As for the new doctor....not sure about him. Kind of liked the old one...even if he did ruin the movie Gone in 60 seconds for me....lol.

You should probably give David Tennant more than about 15 seconds of screen time before you make up your mind. It took me 3 or 4 entire episodes before knowing if I liked him or not.

I've liked Tennant from The Christmas Invasion onward, it was easier to like Tennant from the start than some of the others like for example Colin Baker.  

It's not that I didn't like him from the start. I thought he was great. It's just that I didn't really know it at the time. He took some getting used to. But now that I've seen him in more episodes, I'd say he's just as good if not better than Christopher Eccleston.

[DWF]

Smitty, on Jun 9 2006, 10:42 PM, said:

Is this a form of predestination paradox?

Rose seeing the word BAD WOLF in her travels with The Doctor inspires her to use that as a warning of a future danger.

-cs™

I don't think so, a person needs to become part of history for that to work I think, in this case Rose simply used time to give herself a nudge at the right time.

[bobdylanite]

NeuralClone, on Jun 9 2006, 10:46 PM, said:

It's not that I didn't like him from the start. I thought he was great. It's just that I didn't really know it at the time. He took some getting used to. But now that I've seen him in more episodes, I'd say he's just as good if not better than Christopher Eccleston.

That's good to hear.

And thanks for the explanations guys, I think I get it now.

[DWF]

bobdylanite, on Jun 9 2006, 10:53 PM, said:

NeuralClone, on Jun 9 2006, 10:46 PM, said:

It's not that I didn't like him from the start. I thought he was great. It's just that I didn't really know it at the time. He took some getting used to. But now that I've seen him in more episodes, I'd say he's just as good if not better than Christopher Eccleston.

That's good to hear.

And thanks for the explanations guys, I think I get it now.

The one major difference between the two is that where Eccelston is very intense Tennant has a manic energy when he gets excited and Tennant is alittle lighter on his feet.  

[Smitty]

DWF, on Jun 9 2006, 09:48 PM, said:

Smitty, on Jun 9 2006, 10:42 PM, said:

Is this a form of predestination paradox?

Rose seeing the word BAD WOLF in her travels with The Doctor inspires her to use that as a warning of a future danger.

-cs™

I don't think so, a person needs to become part of history for that to work I think, in this case Rose simply used time to give herself a nudge at the right time.

I don't know, her seeing and hearing Bad Wolf in her travels gave her the idea to use that a signal to The Doctor and herself that a fatal danger awaits them.

The effect preceded the cause, hence the paradox.

-cs™

[Mooky]

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 9 2006, 09:24 PM, said:

DWF, on Jun 9 2006, 10:19 PM, said:

If you blow up their planet they can't really regenerate their way back.  

Well something like that would put a slight delay. But if they regenerate upon dying....wouldn't they have simply regenerated in space? Granted they probably would die, repeatedly, in the vacuum of space...til they were picked up.

Or am I missing something?

Think about it.  Gallifrey completely disintegrated with the whole of the Timelords on it.  No more planet, no more Timelords.  Got it?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta catch Justice League.

[Mooky]

Drax, on Jun 9 2006, 09:58 PM, said:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta catch Justice League.

Well, I guess I won't.  It ain't on tonight.

[DWF]

Smitty, on Jun 9 2006, 10:58 PM, said:

DWF, on Jun 9 2006, 09:48 PM, said:

Smitty, on Jun 9 2006, 10:42 PM, said:

Is this a form of predestination paradox?

Rose seeing the word BAD WOLF in her travels with The Doctor inspires her to use that as a warning of a future danger.

-cs™

I don't think so, a person needs to become part of history for that to work I think, in this case Rose simply used time to give herself a nudge at the right time.

I don't know, her seeing and hearing Bad Wolf in her travels gave her the idea to use that a signal to The Doctor and herself that a fatal danger awaits them.

The effect preceded the cause, hence the paradox.

-cs™

Only in the chronology of Rose's own life, Bad Wolf appeared everywhere they went even 5 billions years in the future, I think the TARDIS enabled her to do that only after she could see all of time at once, she didn't invent the name Bad Wolf nor did she seem to totally understand it's meaning even towards the end.

[Christopher]

Smitty, on Jun 9 2006, 10:42 PM, said:

Is this a form of predestination paradox?

Well, I disagree with that name for it since it isn't really a paradox in the literal sense (because it's self-consistent rather than self-contradictory -- it only contradicts our common-sense expectations about causality).  But yes, this was a causal loop of the sort that's popularly called a "predestination paradox" (or at least has been since "Trials and Tribble-ations" -- I can't recall ever hearing the term before then).

Drax, on Jun 9 2006, 11:04 PM, said:

Drax, on Jun 9 2006, 09:58 PM, said:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta catch Justice League.

Well, I guess I won't.  It ain't on tonight.

And never will be again.  The series ended last month.  And it was on Saturday nights anyway, not Fridays.   (Your location does say USA, so I'm assuming you're not watching it on some Canadian station or something.)

[Smitty]

Okay.

So anyway was it just Jack that was resurrected? What of Lynda with a y?

-cs™

[Smitty]

Heh Drax lives about 20 miles from me!

-cs™

[DWF]

Smitty, on Jun 9 2006, 11:18 PM, said:

Okay.

So anyway was it just Jack that was resurrected? What of Lynda with a y?

-cs™

Rose clearly didn't like Lynda so I don't think she'd want to bring her back and Jack has a date with a spinoff.  

[Smitty]

Damn that's pretty petty of her!

Jack has a lot of dates with people of many genders and species!

-cs™

[DWF]

Smitty, on Jun 9 2006, 11:27 PM, said:

Damn that's pretty petty of her!

Jack has a lot of dates with people of many genders and species!

-cs™

Jack's next date is with a woman named Gwen.  

[G1223]

Actually I gathered she undid the Dalek's work. She might have undone the whole mess and reset the time stream back to how the Doctor remembered it.