Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Standards of Civility

OT Civility Standards

  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#21 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,300 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 11:33 PM

I guess I'm not seeing a difference in attitude.  What I am seeing is a difference in topic.  People DON'T feel the same way about thier politics as they do about their favorite television shows.  We can get really steamed and pissed and everything else - but it just isn't the same thing. To me this seems obvious.  

But to put it in perspective - I'll step out of reality and into a favorite fictional universe ...  EEK!!! SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

SPOILERS BELOW!!!
Plus
Space
For
Different
Skins...

SORRY FOR NOT DOING THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! :(

(Highlight to view)
we all can understand Tyr stealing his son's birthright to save his son - we understand how deeply personal that is, and that there is a matter of perspective to be considered.... :p LOL!

All I'm saying is that people's politics are qualitatively different in terms of how personal it is.  And ANY opposed reaction on some subjects is going to feel personal.  Nature of the beast.  Like I said - I think the Ex Isle way of simply recommending a cool down for people by a friendly reminder, p.m. or something like that BEFORE it escalates out of hand is what's called for - and is what we've already provisioned for.  I think we should just give our system a chance to work.

QT

Edited by QueenTiye, 15 May 2003 - 07:34 PM.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#22 StarDust

StarDust
  • Islander
  • 1,155 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 11:36 PM

I haven't seen where the forum is any different than the rest.

You can't blame the forum because a user gets obnoxious. Fact is they probably would have done it somewhere else if the forum hadn't existed.

I think the forum has worked out quite well.

It would be a shame for this one incident to be used as an excuse by those who have continually spoken out against the forum as an excuse for some how modifing it.

#23 Ro-Astarte

Ro-Astarte

    goddess of love and blowing things up

  • Islander
  • 3,842 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 11:43 PM

A.  It's not one incident.

B.  We're discussing it here because we're forming the shape of how the forum will be moderated.  Not because there's a consideration that the forum's going to disappear.

I've started moderating more closely in the last day or so, but the whole idea is that the group self-moderates more than has to be kept in line by an official moderator.  That's one reason I wanted this discussion to take place out in the open.

Ro

#24 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 14 May 2003 - 11:45 PM

Perspective aye!

Kathy's gonna get you for that...;)

Quote

What I am seeing is a difference in topic. People DON'T feel the same way about thier politics as they do about their favorite television shows. We can get really steamed and pissed and everything else - but it just isn't the same thing. To me this seems obvious.

And the point I'm making is that it is IRRELEVANT in terms of application of the rules that it's a different topic that people may get passionate about in a way that differs (for some, not me;)) from their passion for a show.  The rules are the rules are the rules are the rules.  If people can't discuss certain kinds of things without getting nasty about it they ought to consider avoiding those discussions.

I know for a fact that there are certain topics (usually having to do with religion or reproductive rights) that I simply cannot discuss beyond a certain point with out losing my perspective (and often my temper).  So I try to avoid them.

What I am trying to get across here is that the rules that apply to civillity around here should not apply any less to a topic that happens to be one that is particularly hot for a particular person.

I mean, otherwise I could go into the next thread that say advocates prayer in school and say something like "This is a really hot button for me and you are a complete close minded jerk for even daring to advocate such a position" and then I could say "well I feel differently and more passionately about this than I do about a television show so..."

Yes that's extreme but you  know?  I don't think it's *that* extreme.

and it's that kind of attitude, the one that lets people think that the mere fact that the topic is one that is more likely to evoke strong emotion than others somehow gives license to be rude about the way one discusses it.

Okay, still hoping not to be babbling incoherently.

Lil

Edited by Una Salus Lillius, 14 May 2003 - 11:46 PM.

Posted Image

#25 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 12:30 AM

StarDust, on May 14 2003, 02:23 PM, said:

I haven't seen where the forum is any different than the rest.

You can't blame the forum because a user gets obnoxious. Fact is they probably would have done it somewhere else if the forum hadn't existed.

I think the forum has worked out quite well.

It would be a shame for this one incident to be used as an excuse by those who have continually spoken out against the forum as an excuse for some how modifing it.
If you go back and read this thread from the very beginning, at no point in time did anyone suggest modifying or getting rid of this forum.

We were merely discussing if it might be valuable to tack some rules of the road, so to speak, at the top of the forum.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#26 Rhys

Rhys

    ... a learning experience.

  • Islander
  • 5,491 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 12:43 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on May 14 2003, 05:32 PM, said:

Quote

What I am seeing is a difference in topic. People DON'T feel the same way about thier politics as they do about their favorite television shows. We can get really steamed and pissed and everything else - but it just isn't the same thing. To me this seems obvious.

And the point I'm making is that it is IRRELEVANT in terms of application of the rules that it's a different topic that people may get passionate about in a way that differs (for some, not me;)) from their passion for a show.  The rules are the rules are the rules are the rules.  If people can't discuss certain kinds of things without getting nasty about it they ought to consider avoiding those discussions.
I think the point that people are trying to make (at least, what I'm seeing) is not that there should be more leeway for these topics, but that people are more likely to use the leeway they have.

That is, if the "intensity" were put on a numeric scale from 1-10 (hey, I've got a Math degree), and we decide that 7 is the maximum acceptable on this board, most discussions only go up to about a 3.  Discussing TV shows, especially Andromeda and BSG, might take us up to the 5-6 range, and politics gets us into the 6-7 range.  Not because that's what's allowed, but because that's what people are inclined to do.

Rhys
"It's easy to bond over hating something together - The Internet is total proof of that." Cyd/Codex, The Guild

Change the world!  No one can do everything, but everyone can do something.

#27 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 12:47 AM

I disagree with you.  Strongly.

If the allowable "leeway" here is to tell people to get a life everytime they disagree with you I'll eat my hat.
Posted Image

#28 Ro-Astarte

Ro-Astarte

    goddess of love and blowing things up

  • Islander
  • 3,842 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 12:51 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on May 14 2003, 05:34 PM, said:

I disagree with you.  Strongly.

If the allowable "leeway" here is to tell people to get a life everytime they disagree with you I'll eat my hat.
As demonstrated on that thread, it doesn't extend that far.

So your hat is safe at the present time.

Ro

#29 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,300 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:43 AM

All I'm communicating is that the board has existing rules - and the rules are there to help people get a sense of perspective before we get into punitive boundaries... and I think that's what should happen.  I don't think we need any new rules.  

But if it makes everyone feel better to have the "lay of the land" guidelines posted at the top of the forum - I guess no harms done.  I know however, that I practically NEVER read those things unless they have some special interest to me...

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#30 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:47 AM

^


what was it that Gaheris Rhade said?  You can lead a Nightsider to water but you can't make him drink or something?

:p

Lil who just could *not* resist.

:devil:
Posted Image

#31 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,300 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:53 AM

Of course you could have resisted.  You chose not to.  And you know... rules are rules are rules are rules...


*SMITE!*

(that's for associating me in ANYWAY with those creepy creatures...)

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#32 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:57 AM

OWIE!

Oh but it was SO worth it!!!!!!!

:love:
Posted Image

#33 StarDust

StarDust
  • Islander
  • 1,155 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 01:57 AM

I agree, the board's existing rules are fine.

I honestly don't see any difference in any of the forums. I've seen some pretty nasty stuff both here in AQG and on the topic of various TV shows.

And I haven't seen anything unusual in HP&CE. Seems to me to be no different than when the conversations where going on in the Beach. I don't think moving to a new forum has made any difference in the temperment of the conversations. The same rules should apply to both, except of course what the topics are supposed to be about.

#34 Kevin Street

Kevin Street
  • Islander
  • 6,256 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 08:00 AM

I don't think the standard of civility in the CP&CE forum is any lower than the other places on Ex Isle. In fact, I get the feeling that the people who post there are making an extra effort to be civil, perhaps because everyone knows how heated political and social discussions can get. A lot of debating goes on there, yes, and there's probably more back-and-forth in that forum than the others (at the moment, anyway), because Ex Islers often hold very different views on these kinds of subjects, but that diversity is a good thing.

As long as people continue to be civil, and newcomers read the thread before they jump in (a lot of the disagreements in my "Secret Service" thread were caused when people didn't read what others before them had already posted, imo), I think we'll be fine.
Per aspera ad astra

#35 Uncle Sid

Uncle Sid

    Highly impressionable

  • Islander
  • 1,414 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 11:06 AM

For the most part, I haven't noticed a problem with general civility.  There have been one or two head-scratchers of late which have defied that trend, but they seem to exist in order to highlight the otherwise (relatively) placid nature of the forum.

This board, in general, is a fairly mixed bag in terms of opinions.  This is a good thing, although it does rely heavily on the goodwill of the posters for the discussion to not degenerate into fights.  As we have seen, sometimes that goodwill is challenged by conflicting opinions expressed strongly.  That in mind, I think that it would be perfectly in character for the board to allow just about any discussion not expressly denied by the Terms of Service or the agreed guidelines (I almost said "agreed framework"   :devil: ), but it is imperative not to push that to it's limits.  Think twice about what you post as a topic and you will rarely go wrong if your intentions are good.

The most important thing I would suggest is moderation in tone.  If you respond angrily or with indignation towards a post, you may well confuse a poster who didn't see the angle to what they wrote.  Their belief may be due to their ignorance, or even small-mindedness, but a sharp retort will put the target of your efforts into a defensive mode.  In that defensive mode, the target of your response will be much less inclined to view your point favorably, considering it to be the thinking of someone hasty or overzealous.  

Sadly, many people equate moderation in tone to be equivalent to compromise of belief.  This is not the case.  One who truly believes in something will make the sacrifices required, including reining in their indignation, to ensure that their arguments fall on the most fertile possible ground.  By not vocally dismissing the possibility that your fellow poster may have insight, they cannot dismiss you so easily either.  

I don't pretend that I'm doing anythng but rehashing common sense.  But then, so is "Don't Lie" or "Don't Kill People".  It is much harder to put into practice than it is to say it.  That becomes the primary reason for moderation: to ensure that common sense prevails.  Certain boards in the past have failed due to the parties forgetting why they were there.  If the members wanted to talk to themselves, there is no need to maintain a board for that purpose.  

On the other hand, I also don't expect impassive statues that only compliment me and each other on our views simply for the sake of tranquility.  If you are upset, then be upset.  Just don't get out of control.  Direct your energies into explaining why this upsets you or in some other positive manner.  I assure you that you will gain dual benefits from expressing your feelings, and at the same time doing so in a manner that is constructive.  Replying with an insult, even to an insult leveled at you, is still an insult.  

In short, I expect of the posters in HPCE only that they not undermine their own discussions.  This includes myself, of course.  My actions as a moderator are to ensure the continuance of the board as an effective means for discussions between members of the community.  All other tasks are subsidary.  Agreement is not important, perhaps even boring, but civility is very important.  Respect is best, but courtesy is necessary.  Please do your best to continue to act appropriately and we can expect a long and happy existence as a community.
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey

#36 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,143 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 04:31 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on May 14 2003, 05:34 PM, said:

I disagree with you.  Strongly.

If the allowable "leeway" here is to tell people to get a life everytime they disagree with you I'll eat my hat.
If that's the worst thing said in a heated discussion, I think we are way ahead to let it ride. I had the same comment pointed at me, ands it only made me laugh. It the sign of a weak argument, when someoone starts using insults.

As much as I didn't want the forum, I've spent far more time there then anywhere else, since it was created. I have to admit it has given me a different perspective on Ex Isle altogether. I've taken up arguing some topics just for the sake of arguing, and I've been having a wonderful time. I don't know if I've crossed any lines, as far as I can tell, only Alister managed that, and it had nothing to do with the topic. I would not like to see it get any more strict.  A littlem heat and a few insults never hurt anyone. It can be good for the soul. I have been pushing a lot of peoples buttons over the last few days. I really enjoyed the Oreo and Secrect Service dust ups. I don't think I've had as much fun on a web site since Slipstream first started.

I think what is happening here is that we are all starting to feel at home. Once that happens, there are going to be more arguments and mudslinging, but as long as it doesn't get ot the "I hate you, **** you and the horse you rode in on, and your little dog too!!"

I wouldn't change anything yet. Give it  a few more weeks, then look at it again.
Can't Touch This!!

#37 Enmar

Enmar

    a Sabra

  • Islander
  • 2,021 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 06:41 PM

What Kevin said and many others. I think the incident that started all this had absolutely nothing to do with the forum or the discussion.

Gode, Lil, :unsure: What’s TNZ ?  

QT can you please put some spoiler space on your post… for those of us not from US :glare:
Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings.

#38 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,143 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 07:04 PM

Enmar, on May 15 2003, 11:28 AM, said:

What Kevin said and many others. I think the incident that started all this had absolutely nothing to do with the forum or the discussion.

Gode, Lil, :unsure: What’s TNZ ? 

QT can you please put some spoiler space on your post… for those of us not from US :glare:
TNZ was the hot topics forum at Trekbbs.

The Neutral Zone

http://www.trekbbs.c...at=&Board=UBB21
Can't Touch This!!

#39 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,300 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 07:35 PM

Enmar, on May 15 2003, 12:28 PM, said:

QT can you please put some spoiler space on your post… for those of us not from US :glare:
VERY Sorry... and done.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#40 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 15 May 2003 - 08:25 PM

Kosh, on May 15 2003, 11:51 AM, said:

TNZ was the hot topics forum at Trekbbs.

The Neutral Zone
Was? Is it gone?
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: OT, Civility Standards

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users