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Silenced for mentioning GOD

Education Graduation Speech God Free Speech Student

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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:13 PM

Here's the link: http://video.msn.com...id/3096434/&fg=

It's a video so not sure if it'll work.

What the story basically is: High School student Brittany McComb gave a graduation speech, and because it had references to GOD in it the school told her she could not say those parts. Not wanting her free speech impinged she decided to do it anyway, and when she gave her speech the school cut off the microphone on her as she was giving that part.

Now be warned...a rant is coming. It probably WILL offend some...deal with it.

Who the F**k do these school officials think they F**king are!? Silencing one person's freedom of speech so as not to offend others!? FTS! I have to say that again F*ck that sh*t!

Man it probably is a good think I don't have children of my own, cause if I did and the school tried some sh*t like this with me....all HELL would break loose and it wouldn't be pretty.

This girl, IMO, should sue that school for discrimination. I'm willing to bet that if her speech mentioned Allah it would be allowed. So why not GOD?

Hell I'm not even that religious to begin with. Me and GOD have a relationship...He doesn't come into my house unless absolutely necessary and I don't go into his unless absolutely necessary. But to silence a person's right to mention him...just cause others don't want to hear the word GOD...F*ck that sh*t! You don't want to hear that word, then don't listen...it's as simple as that.

I do hope she sues and wins. This particular school administration needs to be put in it's place.

end rant.

Edited by LORD of the SWORD, 20 June 2006 - 01:18 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#2 ArdenCabbel

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 01:36 PM

Here here!

I agree with you!  (minus the profanity as I try to cut down).

The term is freedom of religion not freedom from religion.
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#3 G1223

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 02:11 PM

These 'enlightened' school officals are the same folks who do not want God talked about by the student. They want to make sure that any non christian on the entire planet is not offended. To do this they must supress a person's right of expression.

I mean think of it. A person who was not christian who was there would think that school allows children to have Christian faith. I mean if the girl was Pegan Islamic or any other faith than Christanity. Then by all means we must allow the expression. But damm those Christians for daring to speak.

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#4 Anastashia

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 02:26 PM

I'm with you on this one LotS. I'm sure if she wants to sue, the American Center for Law and Justice would be more then happy to take her case. They deal with the wacked out interpretations of freedom of religion that many school districts seem to have.
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#5 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:20 PM

One of the classes I took to make my along to getting my teaching cert was "Multicultural Education."  Don't flinch, it was one I wouldn't mind doing again, within reason.  All the rest of them (save one) suck.  

Anyway, to make a long story short, one of the things we dealt with in this class was the "separation of church and state" (which doesn't appear verbatim anywhere in the Constitution) and to what extent does it go.  Well, one of the things that could not be impeded was the free expression of the student (within limits).  If a student were to make a religious reference in their speeches or papers, the school, by law, cannot forbid the student to read it aloud or submit it.  My prof. described it as a pendulum which began in 1962 and swung toward the "separation" side rapidly, but now case law is swinging back toward the middle and nearing what she called "a happy medium."  (Whether that's true or not is up for debate.)  But, freedom of speech for students who wish to express something religious in their own speeches cannot be restricted because it is not an extention of the state, but an extention of the student who is not a representative of the state.  That's what she said, and I remember being rather surprised by what she said.  Me and another fella (who was of like-mind on these matters) exchanged some rather surprised looks and grunts.

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

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#6 Balderdash

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:35 PM

So it would be ok if the Muslim kid mentioned Allah or the Jewish kid talked about Yahweh or Jehovah or Buddists Budda?  Just checking because public school isn't church and kids from all kinds of religions attend public school.

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#7 Zwolf

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:50 PM

I don't believe in a god... which is the only thing that saves me from having to hate one's anthropomorphicized guts (f*** You for the tsunami, dirtbag!).   But even I wouldn't try to block someone from expressing their free speech by mentioning their religion.   I might roll my eyes at that part, but I wouldn't stop her from saying it, since she's not outside of her rights by doing so.

I think the school made a bad decision on that one.

Cheers,

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#8 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:50 PM

Absolutely, balderdash. It applies to all beliefs and faiths, not just one. That's how it taught to us in my class.  I like fairness, which is why I guess I was a little league ump for a while.  I like to see that the game is called squarely for both sides.

Edited by Lost Cause, 20 June 2006 - 03:52 PM.

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." -- John Wayne


Sometimes the best causes worth fighting for are lost causes. -- Me.

Formerly Known as "Lost Cause."


#9 WiLL

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 03:52 PM

If you go to a laic school you keep your personal beliefs to yourserf , or you get out and go to a catholic school ...

It's a matter of respect for other's beliefs

The girl was warned , the school officials did the right thing .

JMHO

Edited by WiLL, 20 June 2006 - 03:54 PM.

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#10 Tricia

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:01 PM

I'm really of the belief that the school was not just talking about mention of the Christian God....

Mention of any religion is generally not accepted (tho not necessarily is it a written  rule anywhere in any school handbook that I have ever seen)  

On the other hand I personally have no issue, not does anyone else that I know, with someone mentioning God.  As long as they are not trying to convert me to their religion and/or denomination.  In other words, as long as it is a speech and not a sermon delivered at the ceremony, no problem.

But there are always those few individuals who will chose to be offended so the schools must protect themselves from lawsuits.  They get proactive to avoid potential lawsuits and in this case asked the girl not to mention God...

The schools can not win.  Allow prayer and/or mention of any deity and get sued....don't allow it and get sued.

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#11 offworlder

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:08 PM

you know the biggest cause in this new trend - sure wouldnt'v heard of these things when I went to grade school and we shouted Under God - is this new Fear of Liability; and I do say Fear! everyone in school boards and districts have underthings in twists about this liability.

And yet, the separation of school and state, erm, religions and schools (and states), has nothing to do with the speakings of someone Not an Officer of or Representing the school district; ie: this student. The only limit on her speach, by laws, can be those limits on any speach, pornography and vulgarity. So long as she didn't do those, she could say anything she likes, well not threatening the president's life or even her principle, but pretty much anything; and they have no right to jump on her.

This Fear of liability is really going way too far, and someone besides the principle mentioning God should not be some big issue. They really do need to get over this Fear.
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#12 Tricia

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:33 PM

^^^That's easier said than done tho, offworlder.

Lawsuits cost money and just not in settlements or court awarded amounts....there's all those lawyer's fees.

I would much rather that money be spent on educating kids and not paying lawyers....but some people think that they MUST be spared from the mention of God, Allah or whoever a person believes in...if any thing.  So they sue.

And it ends up costing money and time and energy that would best be spent elsewhere in the education system.  Which has enough problems without this issue costing money

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You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


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#13 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:33 PM

View PostWiLL, on Jun 20 2006, 04:52 PM, said:

If you go to a laic school you keep your personal beliefs to yourserf , or you get out and go to a catholic school ...

It's a matter of respect for other's beliefs

The girl was warned , the school officials did the right thing .

JMHO

Have to disagree. The school has no right to tell a student what that student can and can't say. Period. It's called the first amendment. Freedom of speech.

Now if this school is so dead set about religion...and the seperation of church and state...then this school shouldn't use money at all. Afterall, it has the words "In God We Trust" printed on it. They can't use money and still claim seperation of church and state.

They want nothing to do with religion? Fine. Give back all the money the school has right now. Find another way of doing business.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#14 WiLL

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:50 PM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Jun 20 2006, 11:33 PM, said:

View PostWiLL, on Jun 20 2006, 04:52 PM, said:

If you go to a laic school you keep your personal beliefs to yourserf , or you get out and go to a catholic school ...

It's a matter of respect for other's beliefs

The girl was warned , the school officials did the right thing .

JMHO

Have to disagree. The school has no right to tell a student what that student can and can't say. Period. It's called the first amendment. Freedom of speech.

Now if this school is so dead set about religion...and the seperation of church and state...then this school shouldn't use money at all. Afterall, it has the words "In God We Trust" printed on it. They can't use money and still claim seperation of church and state.

They want nothing to do with religion? Fine. Give back all the money the school has right now. Find another way of doing business.

It's a bit extreme ^^ , it's not about what students can or can't say , it's about respect for the institution , not sure about how the separation of church and state is taken seriously in US but in France a school can refuse you at the entry if you are wearing too ostensive sign of your religion ( while body piercing and weird haircuts are allowed/tolerated to a point ) , little cross etc are ok but not burka and foulard in classroom ...

I see your point , sure they can't sue her for proclaiming her belief , but neither can she sue them for not allowing her to use their material ( mic etc ) for diffusing it
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#15 Delvo

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 04:51 PM

The right to free speech does not include the right to use someone else's assets for your speech; their right to free speech does include the right to choose not to let you use their assets for your speech. This was a school event, not her own, at which she was representing the school, not herself, in a location that the school either owned or had permission from the owners to use and she did not, with a microphone and speakers for which ownership and/or usage rights also belonged to the school, not to her.

This is like trying to demand that a newspaper print what you want it to or hijack their presses without their permission, or painting someone else's billboard or demanding that they paint it your way for you. Their property in their venue is theirs to control, not yours. If you want to make a personal statement of your own, use your own stuff in your own venue. You have no right to anyone else's.

#16 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 05:28 PM

View PostDelvo, on Jun 20 2006, 05:51 PM, said:

The right to free speech does not include the right to use someone else's assets for your speech; their right to free speech does include the right to choose not to let you use their assets for your speech. This was a school event, not her own, at which she was representing the school, not herself, in a location that the school either owned or had permission from the owners to use and she did not, with a microphone and speakers for which ownership and/or usage rights also belonged to the school, not to her.

I see...So free speech as long as everyone agrees with you. Or, at least as long as the people who own the microphone agree with you. Gotcha.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#17 Smiley

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 05:57 PM

Is there even free speech in school? Sure, you can always say whatever you want whenever you want, but you need to be prepared to face the consequences. She asked if she could say it, the school said no (rightly so), she did it anyway and got punished fairly.
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#18 Dev F

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 06:10 PM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Jun 20 2006, 05:28 PM, said:

I see...So free speech as long as everyone agrees with you. Or, at least as long as the people who own the microphone agree with you. Gotcha.
Did you even read what Delvo wrote? It had nothing to do with "free speech as long as everyone agrees with you."

A public school has an obligation to avoid sanctioning any religious activity. If school officials had allowed her to invoke Jesus as part of an official school event, they would have abdicated their own responsibilities under the First Amendment.

You'll note, of course, that they did nothing to violate the student's freedom of speech, as evidenced by the fact that the student kept speaking. They simply removed themselves as sponsers of said speech, which was their obligation.

Edited by Dev F, 20 June 2006 - 06:11 PM.


#19 Anastashia

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 06:24 PM

Actually those of you who are saying the school was right are incorrect. The student has the right to mention God in her speech. It's a graduation speech. It's her statement of her beliefs. She's not speaking for the school here, she's speaking for herself.

The school is more likely to lose a suit by her than they would be if someone sued if they were offended by what she said. Just because it happens to be a school doesn't mean they've interpreted the law properly. Do check out the site I referenced in my post above.

Specifically Graduation and School Events, the second question "Can valedictorians, salutatorians, or honorary student speakers give speeches on religious subjects, including reading from the Bible?" in that item.

.

Edited by Anastashia, 20 June 2006 - 06:33 PM.

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In the quiet of Midden a young child grows.
Does the salvation of his people grow with him?
"Everything we do now is for the child"

"I made a mistake,
just follow along,
isn't that what tyranny is all about?"
Sheila M---my Praise Band Director

For as long as I shall live
I will testify to love
I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough
Testify to Love

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#20 waterpanther

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Posted 20 June 2006 - 06:35 PM

Traditionally, a valedictorian and salutatorian do not speak on their own behalf.  They speak as representatives of their class, the valedictorian looking back  over their shared experiences, the salutatorian looking toward their future.  This student chose to make her speech all about herself, apparently, and effectively excluded any of her classmates who do not share her particular brand of religion.  And she did it on the state's nickle.  The best that can be said for her is that she was remarkably rude.  (Not to mention dishonest; she lied to her principal.)
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