Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Flag Burning still legal

Senate Flag Burning Amendment 2006

  • Please log in to reply
292 replies to this topic

#41 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 06:16 AM

While the idea of burning a flag is an incendiary one, it's interesting that few people note the flags that fly with disregard for the rules for doing so. How often do you see a flag flying at night without illumination? How about flags flying in the rain? How about flags that you can see flying when they're torn to shreds?

#42 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 07:26 AM

^^^

I have to agree with Broph on this one....

How can one argue for a law that would make flag burning illegal when there are such casual abuses of the flag as he listed.  

I personally have seen flags flying at auto dealerships and in individual persons yards that are in such bad shape---ripped, ragged---that I have  called--at least the businesses--and complained....and was reassured that they were going to replace the flag...which they did not.

If you are going to insist on punishing those who burn the flag...then you must punish those who so casually allow the flag to get into such bad shape.  

Those casual abuses go on day after day....and are visible everyday....where those who burn the flag---well, once the flag is burned then it is over and done....ashes only remain generally.

That said--the flag is but a symbol.  I believe in the principles that it stands for....but do not need the physical embodiment of those ideas, ie the flag, to remind me of the sacrifices made so that we all may have freedom.  

But you can't outlaw one abuse and not the other....

Edited by trikay, 28 June 2006 - 07:28 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#43 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 07:43 AM

View Posttrikay, on Jun 28 2006, 01:26 PM, said:

But you can't outlaw one abuse and not the other....

But for one single vote that is exactly what they would have done.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#44 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 08:46 AM

Moderator's Hat On!First a comment as a moderator; I strongly suggest not going down the path to suggesting certain people should be assaulted.Moderator's Hat Off!

Personally I’d defend someone’s right to burn the flag even though I find the idea despicable.  I do think the flag is a powerful symbol but you know what ticks me off more than anyone burning it.  That would be the people who fly it in tatters and you watch that flag disintegrate over the years.  Or the people who let the flag fall to the ground and rot.  What makes it worse in my mind is these people aren’t doing it because they are trying to make a political statement but rather out of lack of caring.  At least the people who are burning the flag on a base level even if they don’t realize it are stating that flag is a symbol of something bigger.  I may never agree with what they are stating but I know the flag is a powerful enough symbol to survive a match and some lighter fluid.  

That said if they set fire to said flag in a public area where open fires are not permitted I’d support them being charged on those grounds.  I have no qualms against using existing legislation to charge people who set fire to things in locations where fires are not permitted.  If someone would be arrested for setting fire to a newspaper there then the same should apply to a flag.  

Quote

Gode: You're going to have to clarify, as I have no particular clue what the Andersonville diet is supposed to be.
Andersonville was a notorious POW prison in the Confederacy.  Something on the order of 13,000 Union prisoners died of starvation or various diseases at the prison.  

Quote

Gode: Home isn't a place for me, it's people.
A nation is more than a place and really is the people.

Quote

Gode: But for one single vote that is exactly what they would have done.
Congress can only propose an amendment.  That said for it to pass you need ¾ of the States to ratify it with their legislatures or by special convention.  That rarely if ever happens even if Congress does pass an amendment proposal that’s a bad idea.  It is awful hard to get that many states to go along with it.  The equal rights amendment died during state ratification by falling short by three states.  It was a rather silly amendment since the equal protection clause of the 14th could be used for anything the ERA said.

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 28 June 2006 - 08:49 AM.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#45 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 08:55 AM

Quote

I have to give it to the republicans though...come the mid term elections they are going to bring this back up...and every democrat who voted against it is going to feel the heat...no pun intended.

Which is the entire reason they bothered with this hollow legislation in the first place.  It's all a cynical political ploy so they'll have something to make anybody who votes against it look bad.  It's shiny-object jerk-offery to distract us from anything that's actually important.  

This is what I hate about these kind of political moves:  the Senate thinks we're all frickin' stupid.  Unfortunately in many cases, they're absolutely right about that. Dolts will happily frolick after this low-dangled carrot, ignoring a zillion other pieces of legislation that actually have some effect upon their lives.  Senator so-and-so may have taken money away from your kids' education, or they may have screwed up your retirement plan, or they may have messed around with your health care, or they may have helped send more jobs overseas or weakened the borders or a million other bad things... but all a lot of dullards out there are gonna look at is, "Ol' Senator Billy Bob done stood up fer the flag 'n' voted 'gainst a-burnin' of it, by jingo, 'n' I'm gonna vote fer 'im!  Gleep gleep!"  And some other Senator, who may have great ideas but think that you don't need to change the Constitution to cover desecrations of symbols, will get misrepresented as "the guy who's in favor of flag-burning."   Boooooo!  I'm not gonna vote for that guy!

This is all bulls**t.  I love the flag, too.  I walk past a great big one every day when I'm going to the post office, and I always look up and admire it (it's a really pretty flag, y'know) and think about what it means.  Every day.  I'd never burn it, no matter how mad I am at the government, 'cuz it doesn't represent the government - it represents the country.  Give me a symbol of the f'ing government and I might think about torching that, but a symbol of the country, nope, not me.  

But you know what it means if somebody burns a flag?  Not a damn thing, other than that they're stupid and think they're making some kind of a "statement."   The country will still be around no matter how many flags or other symbols of it they burn.  They can burn 'em all - we'll just make more.  They can't burn what it means.  So, if they wanna keep buying 'em and burning 'em, fine - they cost money, so they're helping the economy of the very thing they're claiming to be against. :)  Unless they're burning someone else's flag - in which case it's already illegal, anyway, 'cuz that would be arson.   I can't walk into your yard and even burn your trash if I want to, much less your flag, your car, or anything else that's yours.   That's arson.  If you buy something with your own money, though, and you wanna be a dumbass and set fire to it, g'head, be it a flag or a Black Sabbath album (hey, they're sacred to me!) or a Dixie Chicks CD whatever it is that dumbasses like to light up.  G'head, we'll make more.  Burn all the Black Sabbath albums you can afford - I've got my own, and I'll drive past your house every day blaring f'ing "Symptom of the Universe" and "War Pigs" until you have a stroke from the impotent rage.  Or I'll fly a flag - whatever sinks yer boat.

So this means not-a-damn-thing, and it's just another cynical political ploy to bait-and-switch us.  Don't be a willing audience for Congress's dumb little c'mon-and-help-us-get-elected-you-simpleminded, easily-led-dipwits tricks.  They're wasting time and money with this kind of b.s., because they think we're stupid.

While I'm ranting, I wish all those flag-lovers who stick the little flags on their cars would take them down once they get all moldy and torn-up.  That's disrespectful to me, letting a flag you're supposed to be proud of getting in that condition.  I'm also not crazy about people wearing the flag as clothing - to me, that's also disrespectful.  But, that's me.  Tastes definitely vary.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#46 HeroicFool

HeroicFool

    Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm.

  • Forever Missed
  • 636 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 08:56 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Jun 27 2006, 10:59 PM, said:

View PostSpidey, on Jun 28 2006, 06:38 AM, said:

When I was given the flag that was on my fathers caskett, it was essentially the most important thing in the world to me.  He was in Vietnam three times, and played a large role in the Cuban missile crisis.  Both my grandparents fought in WWII, and even to them, that flag means a whole lot of things.  It isn't just a piece of cloth with pretty colors and patterns on it.

Fair enough.

Quote

I find it a complete tragedy that anyone, reguardless of what country they may be in, not have any emotional bond to their flag.  The flag is a physical embodiment of a nation.  People should take pride in it.

You aren't the first to profess the tragic nature of my lack of patriotism, probably won't be the last either.

But let me ask you something Spidey, why should I owe any allegiance, or assign emotional value to a nations flag? and for that matter, to which flag should I owe my allegiance.

The Dutch one because that's the flag I was born under? A trifling coincidence. If my father had received one of the other two job offers he was going for I would have been born in Saudi-Arabia or the US respectively. I had no choice in the place of my birth and refuse to feel pridefull or automatically loyal to anything for mere coincidence.

England because i'm living there now? That was an economic choice, not done because I have any great love for the UK or it's goverment. It just happened to be the place where I could get a job?

Canada or the US, which I am in the process to moving to one off? Hardly, again I'm facilitating that move for economic and personal reasons, and the fact that Vancouver and Los Angeles are in Canada and the US are coincidences and nothing more. .

So which nation should I be patriotic to? and a far more important question, is why I should in the first place. What has the UK done for me that should make me loyal? I pay for my rights and privelidges with my taxes, and beyond that, the UK goverment has given me nothing but grief for years now. Should I be proud of the nation for that?

Quote

A world without such emotion would mean, well, I'd rather not say, as it may earn me a warning...

Patriotism worries me, almost as much as nationalism does.


Dude...

I don't think that anyone who doesn't understand patriotism or what the flag of this country means should be allowed to move here.  The USA is more than you will ever comprehend.
Posted Image
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

#47 Dev F

Dev F

    Straighten your pope hat!

  • Islander
  • 3,757 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:08 AM

View PostHeroicFool, on Jun 28 2006, 08:56 AM, said:

I don't think that anyone who doesn't understand patriotism or what the flag of this country means should be allowed to move here.  The USA is more than you will ever comprehend.
If the U.S. were the kind of place in which patriotism could be mandated, like in some fascist police state, it'd be less.

To be honest, this kind of attitude mystifies me. Why should I care if other people aren't appropriately patriotic? That's their prerogative, and it doesn't hurt me in the slightest. My convictions are not so fragile that I feel threatened by people who don't share them. Unless, of course, they start trying to legislate them.

#48 HeroicFool

HeroicFool

    Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm.

  • Forever Missed
  • 636 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:22 AM

~shrugs~

There are only so many people that can be allowed to enter the US legally.  I have no problem weeding out the ones that don't understand what this country stands for and who really don't care for it.

There are better candidates right on their heels.
Posted Image
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

#49 offworlder

offworlder

    pls don't kick offworlders, we can find a place too

  • Islander
  • 5,363 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:01 AM

I can sure understand Spidey's thing on patriotism and the meaning of the flag, my dad also flew protection over the Cuban missile crisis, and two tours in Vietnam in which he often came back with holes in his plane so that they didn't know how he even got back, but they realized he was a champ pilot so hey, all those 7.62 mil and 12.9 mil holes weren't keeping him down; he almost left me fatherless, but the champ clawed his way home to his two sons.

I must say though, I have never seen the flag as 'sacred', that's a different word for me ;)

I must also say, America has always been about ownership, and the flag thing is too: I defend to all expanses Spidey's right to keep me from burning 'your' flag; but mine is ... mine! I have the right to burn it if I wanna. Just like all the vandalism laws, which Gode will see if moving to Vancouver or L.A.: I live not too far from Vancouver and I know there is vandalism in those two places, and it's about ownership: I should not be able to tag your house, so you must clean and overpaint, or key your car so you pay four grand to repaint. Those are yours, NOT mine; it's ownership.

The Constitution was made mostly about ownership, America's rights are more to protect ownership than anything else, most protections in America is about ownership: the right to opportunity is to help that one day you may have ownership: if two people are in conflict in legal ways the one with ownership just comes out seeming to have more rights.

So, this goes to the flag too. Who's flag is being burned? I can burn mine, but I canna burn yours.
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#50 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:12 AM

As far as I'm concerned burning the flag is no worse than sleazeball American celebs making sport of trashing the U.S. overseas to score points with the foreign press. If scum like Johnny Depp and Michael Moore aren't breaking the law with their antics, it's kind of a leap to suggest some pathetic leftist  nobody with matches and too much free time, should be thrown in the slammer. And frankly, isn't burning the flag really...corny? Seriously I'm much more inclined to bring charges against the anti- American elements who are doing actual harm to our country's security. Like say....New York Times reporters.

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#51 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:37 AM

View PostGodeskian, on Jun 28 2006, 02:22 AM, said:

You continue to choose to see things in the worst possible light, and I feel that's something of an unfair generalisation.

True they are burning the flag to open a line of discussion where we will sit down and have a cup of tea and sing the coke theme. Then I will suddenly see the light and realize that the symbol of my country is crap and worthy of treating in that manner.  Maybe throw blood on a the veteran's memorials and disrupt military funerals as they are only meaningless symbols. Maybe?

I see it in the worse light because I cannot see such an act as anyway to open any sort of discussion. It is designed to provoke a fight. The people doing it  do not care about this country but care more for their causes instead.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#52 Timon

Timon
  • Islander
  • 170 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:43 AM

Quote

It is the symbol of the United States of America, and is SACRED.

Sacred? Hardly.
Are you going to sacrifice a lamb in front of it or something?
Idolatry doesn't suit us as a people. Flags are merely nationalistic symbols left over from medieval days of jousting. Our founding fathers would retch at the idea of such a constitutional amendment and balk at the time and money wasted over debating it. Especially while our country is engaged in a failing occupation over seas.
This is merely the GOP's latest pathetic attempt to slap a bumper sticker over the constitution and rally their withering base. Which is exceptionally hypocritical when you consider that the flag is a symbolic reminder of our constitution. A piece of paper which the GOP has routinely trod upon for the last five years. It seems the fabric of the flag is far more important to them than the actual ideals it represents.

Edited by Timon, 28 June 2006 - 10:45 AM.


#53 enTranced

enTranced

    Chasing Your Starlight!

  • Islander
  • 15,772 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 10:57 AM

^ Thanks Timon, now I can just say What HE said. ;)

Ok, I will add this : The United States of America is greater then it's flag, it's even greater then it's Goverment (ok, it's MUCH greater then it's current goverment!  :angel: ) it is a idea, it is a revolutionary idea, that maybe, just maybe people don't need a king, or a dictator or any other kind of ruling class to lead us around like sheep. Maybe, just maybe we can govern OURSELVES.

Sure, sometimes we fall short of that lofty ideal but we keep trying and that in itself says alot about us to.

No flag, no mere symbol can equal that. If you burn ALL the flags and even burn all the pretty statues and buildings in Washington that idea, that wonderful amazing idea will still be just as strong as it was back then.

enTranced

Edited by enTranced, 28 June 2006 - 12:21 PM.

Posted Image

#54 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 11:41 AM

View PostZwolf666, on Jun 28 2006, 01:55 PM, said:

Quote

I have to give it to the republicans though...come the mid term elections they are going to bring this back up...and every democrat who voted against it is going to feel the heat...no pun intended.

Which is the entire reason they bothered with this hollow legislation in the first place.  It's all a cynical political ploy so they'll have something to make anybody who votes against it look bad.  It's shiny-object jerk-offery to distract us from anything that's actually important.  

Cheers,

Zwolf

Exactly....it's the old 'let's trot out the patriotism card to shut'em up'

Never mind all the other real problems we have in this country right now.  

I found a couple of quotes from Mark Twain about patriotism that I realy like---

Quote

Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let me label you as they may.


The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous. They will equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive.   And if they can't decide or won't decide how to fix problems they decide to divert our attention elsewhere.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#55 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:01 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Jun 28 2006, 01:49 AM, said:

Point of clarification, isn't it only Arson if it's someone elses property? If someone buys a flag at their local wallmart and then takes it home and burns it, they are only destroying their own private property.

I would say no. If you set fire to your own house it is still arson, even though you are only destroying your own home.

Edited by LORD of the SWORD, 28 June 2006 - 12:07 PM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#56 Robert Hewitt Wolfe

Robert Hewitt Wolfe
  • Demigod
  • 2,247 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:06 PM

View PostenTranced, on Jun 28 2006, 08:57 AM, said:

^ Thanks Timon, now I can just say What HE said. ;)

Ok, I will add this : The United States of America is greater then it's flag, it's even greater then it's Goverment (ok, it's MUCH greater then it's current goverment!  :angel: ) it is a idea, it is a revolutionary idea, that maybe, just maybe people don't need a king, or a dictator or any other kind of ruling class to lead us around like sheep. Maybe, just maybe we can govern OURSELVES.

Sure, sometimes we fall short of that lofty ideal but we keep trying and that in itself says alot about us to.

No flag, no mere symbol can equal that. If you burn ALL the flags and even burn all the pretty statues and buildings in Washington that idea, that wonderful amazing idea will still be just as strong as it back then.

enTranced

Dude, seriously, run for office.  I'd vote for you in a second.

"There are monsters, there are angels...
There's a peacefulness and a rage inside us all."
----------------------------------
Voice of the Beehive


#57 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:09 PM

I find it ironic to see politicians and Americans make such a stink over flag burning without realising that to ban or criminalise it, is more of an affront to the flag than burning it would be. The flag is a symbol of what our country is and stands for, so how does curtailing the rights and freedoms the flag represents honor that symbol?

Quote

There are only so many people that can be allowed to enter the US legally. I have no problem weeding out the ones that don't understand what this country stands for and who really don't care for it.

There are better candidates right on their heels.

Oh I think he knows what it stands for and would be a better representative of it than many Americans are...The FREEDOM to decide for yourself, to question your government, hold it accountable for it's actions and to be proud or ashamed of it's actions based on your own personal beliefs. IMO, patriotism is much like respect, you have to EARN IT. America has enough mindless flag wavers (many of whom don't vote) and are basically clueless to anything deeper than snappy slogans and meaningless rhetoric. This was nothing more than simplitic election year pandering. We have SERIOUS problems in this country that aren't being addressed while these clowns suck up for votes.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#58 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:23 PM

Quote

ar·son    (ärsn) KEY  

NOUN:

The crime of maliciously, voluntarily, and willfully setting fire to the building, buildings, or other property of another or of burning one's own property for an improper purpose, as to collect insurance.

So, unless somebody crazily insured their flag before burning it, I don't think they could be committing arson if the flag was their own property.

You can also burn your own house, as long as you don't try to claim the insurance for it.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#59 enTranced

enTranced

    Chasing Your Starlight!

  • Islander
  • 15,772 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:24 PM

View PostRobert Hewitt Wolfe, on Jun 28 2006, 05:06 PM, said:

Dude, seriously, run for office.  I'd vote for you in a second.

:blush:

What can I say, I enjoyed my American History classes!

enTranced
Posted Image

#60 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 28 June 2006 - 12:34 PM

I was going to burn a flag.  On the steps of the Capitol.  In the summer of 1999.  

In my right hand, I would have been holding a sign that said, Burn Flags, Not Veterans, probably attached to my cane so I wouldn't fall.  In my left, the flag.  I had briefly toyed with the idea of wrapping the flag around myself, but I wasn't that suicidal.  But I was ready to cash it all in, after becoming just one more in a long line of homeless veterans.  

What kept me from doing it was the fear of my car breaking down on the way, and I needed the car to sleep in.  (One of the brothers tried to insist that I wasn't really homeless, since I had a car to sleep in, but he was looney about other stuff too.)  But in the summer of 1999 and in the years that followed, I thought about it now and then.  

I don't know what I hoped would happen, but I'm sure that a chance to shine a light on the fact that many, many homeless veterans are NOT drug users or alcohol abusers, that many, many of us are clean (which was a stretch, since I often had to sneak into a VA hospital, find the women's locker room that had showers, dodge the staff, to clean up) and sober, though mentally disabled or mentally ill.  I guess I hoped that by taking such a drastic step, somebody would listen to me.  

What ended my plan was the day that I discovered that somebody had indeed listened to me, the day I received the letter informing me that the Bureau of Veterans Appeals was granting me service connection for my disability.  After all the years of hearings and appeals, somebody had finally checked out my side of the story, and I had been believed.  The truth did set me free, and I no longer have any desire to burn a flag.  But before I would ever condemn anyone for doing so, I would want to know why.  

As so many of you have said in this thread, the freedoms represented are greater than the symbol.  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Senate, Flag Burning Amendment, 2006

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users