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God doesn't exist . . .

Religion Atheism God Nonexistent 2006

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#21 gsmonks

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:31 PM

View PostZwolf666, on Jul 7 2006, 03:23 PM, said:

It is within my powers to fold you an origami crane.

But just 'cuz you tell me to doesn't mean that I will.  My unwillingness to do it doesn't mean that I don't exist, or that I don't have that skill.

I think I can prove God doesn't exist... I've discussed it with religious people who insisted on being a pain in my ass and wouldn't take "let's not discuss this" for an answer, and I've left a few of 'em in a major crisis of faith.  One lady pitched her Bible in the garbage, right in front of me.  (I fished it out 'cuz it was a Catholic Bible and I didn't have one of those :) ).   But ya can't do it with something as quick and easy as the mango trick.  And you shouldn't even try to do it to anyone who's not trying to use their beliefs as a weapon against you.  Don't try to take anything away from someone that's a help to them and that's not being used to hurt you.

People here may disagree on things based on their religious beliefs, but they can't try to harm you with 'em via a message board.   So, no need for mango-challenges.  Everybody should believe what they want.

Cheers,

Zwolf

My point, Zwolf, is that it's all talk, but when one single action is demanded as proof, nothing happens.

All the "proofs" in the Bible are just more endless words and talk. There are reams of claims of miracles and proof.

All I'm saying is, "Okay, well, let's see one. I'm waiting. Where's my mango?"

I don't agree with the assertion that people are entitled to their beliefs. The Catholic church, for one, is a huge, powerful organisation whose powers extend far beyond mere words. In some countries people are held hostage to those beliefs, in such areas as birth control, abortion, marriage, divorce, and so on. Those infringements are infringements of civil liberties.

Those infringements stem from people's beliefs.
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#22 GiGi

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:34 PM

Well, long, long ago God turned my computer into an APPLE.  Since then I have felt so very blessed with this APPLE that there is absolutely no reason to ask for it to be a mango.  I already have a miracle, so thus I am well pleased.
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#23 gsmonks

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:35 PM

View PostRobert Hewitt Wolfe, on Jul 7 2006, 03:30 PM, said:

View Postgsmonks, on Jul 7 2006, 02:18 PM, said:

Well, at the moment I need a mango. It's God's big chance to earn himself a convert. You'd think he'd jump at the chance.

Assuming he exists . . .

But God (if she exists) doesn't want you to believe in her because she gives you a mango.  She wants you to believe in her because you have pure faith, unvalidated by evidence.  So sayeth the believers.

I sayeth turn a TV into a mango, and a man shall have a mango.  Encourage the same man to planteth a mango tree, and he shall have mangos all the days of his life.*

*Provided he liveth in an environment suitable for mangos and hath not the thumb of brown.

Ah, the old "hold out and hope they'll talk themselves into believing" trick.

Sorry, I'm not falling for that one.

My faith is one measelly mango. If God existed and valued my faith, a mango would appear.

No mango, no faith, no God.
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#24 EChatty

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:36 PM

No matter what I say, it's going to be twisted so you go ahead and say that just because your computer doesn't turn into a mango that proves God doesn't exist.

All I will say is that when you finally see him face to face I hope He hands you a mango.

Have a nice life.


#25 gsmonks

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:37 PM

I guess you guys missed the last line of my opener:

"All the rest is just talk."

And that's all this is- endless talk. Where's my mango?
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#26 Bobby

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:37 PM

What if he gave you a rotten mango?

#27 gsmonks

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:38 PM

View PostChatterbox, on Jul 7 2006, 03:36 PM, said:

No matter what I say, it's going to be twisted so you go ahead and say that just because your computer doesn't turn into a mango that proves God doesn't exist.

All I will say is that when you finally see him face to face I hope He hands you a mango.

Have a nice life.

I'm not twisting anything. I'm asking the simplest, most basic of questions. I'm saying, "If God exists, then he can prove it by turning our computers into mangos."

What could be plainer or more simple?

No twisted words there. But thanks, I will have a very nice life!

Edited by gsmonks, 07 July 2006 - 04:40 PM.

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#28 Bobby

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:41 PM

View Postgsmonks, on Jul 7 2006, 04:38 PM, said:

View PostChatterbox, on Jul 7 2006, 03:36 PM, said:

No matter what I say, it's going to be twisted so you go ahead and say that just because your computer doesn't turn into a mango that proves God doesn't exist.

All I will say is that when you finally see him face to face I hope He hands you a mango.

Have a nice life.

I'm not twisting anything. I'm asking the simplest, most basic of questions. I'm saying, "If God exists, then he can prove it by turning our computers into mangos."

What could be plainer or more simple?

No twisted words there. But thanks, I will have a very nice life!

But then we'd have to take your word for it that your computer was turned into a mango by god.  Personally, I don't want a mango so maybe I'm messing up the test. :oh:

#29 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:44 PM

^How do you even tell anyone on a message board if your computer becomes a mango?
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#30 Bobby

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:47 PM

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Jul 7 2006, 04:44 PM, said:

^How do you even tell anyone on a message board if your computer becomes a mango?

This is true.  There's always the public library...

Also, I don't mean to question your veracity.  It's the same as when anyone proclaims a miracle for me.

#31 gsmonks

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:51 PM

View PostCaesar of the Stars, on Jul 7 2006, 03:37 PM, said:

What if he gave you a rotten mango?

Even a rotton mango or a lemon would be proof.
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#32 Shalamar

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:54 PM

And why should the Divine upset the way things are just to turn a computer into a mango. Why should the Divine be bothered to prove anything to you. The Divine doesn't care wether you believe or not, the Divine knows you are a part of all that is.

yes the honest variation on this not so old saw...

You don't have to believe in evolution, evolution believes in you...

However telling someone that they are wrong to believe, just because you don't, is very very wrong.

You don't have faith, thats fine, you are free to have faith or not as you choose, but don't tell others that they can't believe, can't have faith.
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#33 Bobby

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:55 PM

If you get to the market/grocery store and you come across the mangos and they are on sale or one happens to fall off and roll up to your feet, would you accept that as proof?  Sometimes god gives you what you want just not when or how you want it.  Maybe later..

I can't believe I'm defending religion, damnation! :wacko:

#34 Rhea

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:57 PM

View PostRobert Hewitt Wolfe, on Jul 7 2006, 02:10 PM, said:

The existance or lack of existance of God is a matter of faith either way.  Stating a disbelief in God is as valid as stating a belief in God.  Neither is an attack on the other, since both positions are logially unassailable.

I'm an agnostic.  I believe you should believe whatever makes you happiest while understanding that neither position is proveable.


Well said. Another agnostic here.
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#35 Shalamar

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:58 PM

I don't feel that it is religion that he is questioning, but belief/ faith - question religion all you want for that is a construct of man and is as flawed as all of mans works are. But belief, that is personal, strongly integral to a persons core 'selfness' and shouldn't be attacked.
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#36 Balderdash

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:58 PM

View Postgsmonks, on Jul 7 2006, 02:31 PM, said:

View PostZwolf666, on Jul 7 2006, 03:23 PM, said:

It is within my powers to fold you an origami crane.

But just 'cuz you tell me to doesn't mean that I will. My unwillingness to do it doesn't mean that I don't exist, or that I don't have that skill.

I think I can prove God doesn't exist... I've discussed it with religious people who insisted on being a pain in my ass and wouldn't take "let's not discuss this" for an answer, and I've left a few of 'em in a major crisis of faith. One lady pitched her Bible in the garbage, right in front of me. (I fished it out 'cuz it was a Catholic Bible and I didn't have one of those :) ).   But ya can't do it with something as quick and easy as the mango trick.  And you shouldn't even try to do it to anyone who's not trying to use their beliefs as a weapon against you. Don't try to take anything away from someone that's a help to them and that's not being used to hurt you.

People here may disagree on things based on their religious beliefs, but they can't try to harm you with 'em via a message board. So, no need for mango-challenges. Everybody should believe what they want.

Cheers,

Zwolf

My point, Zwolf, is that it's all talk, but when one single action is demanded as proof, nothing happens.

All the "proofs" in the Bible are just more endless words and talk. There are reams of claims of miracles and proof.

All I'm saying is, "Okay, well, let's see one. I'm waiting. Where's my mango?"

I don't agree with the assertion that people are entitled to their beliefs. The Catholic church, for one, is a huge, powerful organisation whose powers extend far beyond mere words. In some countries people are held hostage to those beliefs, in such areas as birth control, abortion, marriage, divorce, and so on. Those infringements are infringements of civil liberties.

Those infringements stem from people's beliefs.

I don't believe in a god at least not in the sense that Christians do but I was raised Christian.  I don't think that I ever believed but I was in Church at least 3 times a week and if I had a question (and I had many) I was told that you had to take some things on faith alone, never could.  But a lot of people seem to be able to do that, take things on faith, cool for them.

Anyway, my point is that some Christians believe that we're instruments of god here on earth.  If someone is hungry we should feed him or teach him to feed himself.  I know that for me I think that the really vocal fundies should probably change the name of their religion because I don't see a whole lot of Christ in their message.  

If god allows someone like Pat Robertson the type of platform he has to spew hate then Christ has left the building.  I might believe in god if I saw more Christ in action here and now but the people (the real church) just allow him his platform and don't have a lot to say about it and enable people like him to be the voice of Christ.

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#37 Rhea

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 04:59 PM

View PostShalamar, on Jul 7 2006, 02:54 PM, said:

Why should the Divine be bothered to prove anything to you. The Divine doesn't care wether you believe or not, the Divine knows you are a part of all that is.

yes the honest variation on this not so old saw...

You don't have to believe in evolution, evolution believes in you...

However telling someone that they are wrong to believe, just because you don't, is very very wrong.

You don't have faith, thats fine, you are free to have faith or not as you choose, but don't tell others that they can't believe, can't have faith.

I don't believe he told anyone not to believe - he just said he doesn't. See what Robert wrote above. If someone stating they don't believe is somehow a challenge to your belief, something is really wrong.

Edited by Rhea, 07 July 2006 - 05:00 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#38 gsmonks

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 05:00 PM

So much endless talk . . . and still no mango.
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#39 Lover of Purple

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 05:09 PM

All of this endless nonsense and still no proof God doesn't exist.

#40 EChatty

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 05:11 PM

I really don't think it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt whether God exists or doesn't exist.

That's where faith comes in and as long as I'm not hurting others with my faith I don't see any reason to give it up.




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