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Military Lessons from Iraq:

Military History Iraq

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#21 MuseZack

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 04:19 PM

On the subject of small arms, I'm more and more wondering if the shift from 7.62 NATO to 5.56 in our main combat rifles and carbines might not have been a mistake.

My ex-stepfather (long story) was a Special Forces operator in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia during the 1960s, and still speaks highly of the M-14 that was his main weapon-- not only for its stopping power against human targets, but for its amazing ability to penetrate trees, building walls, and other obstacles to get at the people on the other side (I've fired civilian versions, and the 7.62 mm NATO round is indeed amazing).  

And he had nothing but contempt for the M-16, which he viewed as being made for wimps who didn't want to hump the heavier M-14 and accompanying ammunition (how much of this was generalized disdain for the other service branches, I can't be sure).

One of the big arguments in favor of 5.56 weapons is the greater amount of ammo one can carry-- but in an age where resupply is getting ever more efficient, is the trade off between decreased weight and decreased stopping power still a good one?

Zack
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We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
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#22 jon3831

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 08:52 AM

Globalsecurity.org Article on 5.56 vs 7.62

As to the sidearm debate...

Pistols are a first aid kit. Nothing more. But speaking as me, personally? I'd rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one. IMHO, YMMV, of course.
"The issue is not war and peace, rather, how best to   preserve our freedom."
                    --General Russell E. Dougherty, USAF

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#23 EvilTree

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Posted 03 June 2003 - 02:02 PM

Here are the forums I've put the pistol question to.
Pay close attention to SOCNET, as it's got the most BTDTs. Warning though, if you're going to post there, wear a thick flame suit as these people tolerate no BS.

http://www.americasa...7304&forum=29

http://pub116.ezboar...icID=1745.topic

http://www.militaryf...opic.php?t=3060

http://www.socnetcen...&threadid=25026

http://cdnarmy.ca/ub...ic;f=1;t=000837
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"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms."
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#24 EvilTree

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 02:22 PM

Oh, one more...

http://armyapp.force...asp?TOPIC_ID=85
Loyalty, Vigilance, Excellence
-Motto of Imperial Space Marines


"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms."
-Robert A. Heinlein

"Self control is chef element in self respect. Self respect is chief element in courage."
-Thucydides

#25 ph3n1ks

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 07:04 PM

Quote

IOS Suites - Units want a small system during the next upgrade. Additionally, the units request a Windows platform, if available

This sooo worries me... :blink:

On the side arm note, there is a reason that the SOCOM is a .45. And I am with jon.

Quote

I'd rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one.

I was once instructed with this bit of wisdom.

It is a fool that starts a war with only a pistol, and it is such with one who starts a war with only a rifle.
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#26 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 06 July 2003 - 10:13 AM

Rather than start a new thread I thought I would add this here.  It looks like the USN is jumping at some of the lessons they learned in the aftermath of the Iraq war as our carrier fleet is now stretched very thin.  Now in addition to this what we need is a 15 carrier fleet.    

Navy Plans To Increase Carrier Readiness

Quote

As Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld moves to increase the global presence of U.S. military forces to fight the war on terrorism, the Navy has developed a new fleet readiness plan designed to double the number of aircraft carriers available for missions around the world.

Instead of maintaining single carriers in the Pacific Ocean, the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean Sea, the Navy could have six carriers ready by the end of the year to respond to terrorist emergencies or other military contingencies worldwide, Navy officials said.

Quote

"The Navy is migrating away from the static deployment patterns of the Cold War in order to be more flexible and responsive to unpredictable threats," said Loren B. Thompson, a defense analyst at the Lexington Institute who works as a consultant to the Navy and various defense contractors. "The new approach is part of a broad effort to be more forward-deployed, more numerous in the number of formations and more precise in the range of responses."

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
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