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Israel seems ready to go to war against Lebanon

Middle East 2006 Israel Lebanon Conflict

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#261 tennyson

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 01:54 AM

They are deep if they're requesting GBU-28s. Something buried that deep wouldn't even be bothered that much by a BLU-82. I guess the AGM-142 Popeye penetrator version either didn't perform as expected or wasn't used. (The AGM-142 Popeye or Have Nap is a joint Isreali/US  air-launched ground attack missile with a range of around 50 miles. A Popeye II also exists with a range of about 150km. It carries a 750 pound blast fragmentation or 770 penetrating warhead. Used only by the US, Israel and Turkey.)
I wonder what they were meaning when they said

Quote

short-range rockets armed with cluster bombs

I can't think of an air-launched weapon that the US has that meets that criteria. All of the GPS-guided weapons are either unpowered or longer range but I guess the writer could have got it wrong or was refering to an non-air launched weapon. (Back in the 1970s the US sold Israel a supply of Lance ground-launched short range ballastic missiles, some of which had cluster warheads. But those have been out of US service ever since the end of the Cold War.)
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#262 Palisades

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 02:02 AM

Haaretz:

Quote

Israel has asked the Bush administration to speed delivery of short-range antipersonnel rockets armed with cluster munitions, the New York Times reported Friday morning. These rockets can be effective against hidden missile launchers.

Israel is asking for the rockets now because it has been unable to suppress Hezbollah's Katyusha rocket attacks in the month-old conflict by using bombs dropped from aircraft and other types of artillery, the officials said.

According to the paper, the request for M-26 artillery rockets, which are fired in barrages and carry hundreds of grenade-like bomblets that scatter and explode over a broad area, is likely to be approved shortly, along with other arms.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#263 tennyson

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 02:27 AM

Thanks Solar Wind, so they are refering to MLRS(Multiple Launch Rocket System) munitions. Those should do the job of dealing with Hezbollahs own rocket launchers very well. One of the things they were designed for in the first place was extremely rapid counter-battery fire. Using battlefield radar they should be able to have return rounds in the air before Hezbollah's rockets have even landed.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#264 Palisades

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 03:05 AM

BBC has reported:

Quote

The UN passed a resolution urging a "full cessation of hostilities".

Israel's cabinet is to discuss the issue on Sunday and will only halt military action after it takes a vote.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is asking the cabinet to endorse the resolution, describing it as positive and acceptable.

But even as diplomats finalised the draft, Israel radio said troops had been ordered to seize ground as far as the Litani River, up to 30km (18 miles) from the Israeli border.

"We are expanding the combat areas to the Litani River and to areas from which (Hezbollah) rockets are fired on Israel in order to reduce and eventually stop these attacks," a senior commander in northern Israel, General Alon Friedman, was quoted as telling public radio.

<snip>

An adviser to Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora gave the resolution a cautious welcome, but there was no immediate reaction from Hezbollah.

Lebanese Information Minister Eli Farzli told the BBC Hezbollah would abide by the terms set out at the UN.

"If the implementation of the resolution takes place accurately, and the Israelis stick to the resolution, and if the Lebanese government accept it, then I think it means that Hezbollah will also accept it, and I think that Hezbollah will stick to the 1701 resolution," he said.

Edited by Solar Wind, 12 August 2006 - 03:09 AM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#265 offworlder

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 04:20 PM

Nasrullah is still hemmin and hawin, he really wants to keep fingers on triggers til the last Israeli trooper swings his last foot past the border; so this whole thing is still somewhat tentative, trust is gone; Israel says they halt strikes Monday, but of course that's if not one more rocket or missile is fired, and that's not exactly what Nasrallah, who sits this whole thing out in safety and virtual hiding in Damascus, is saying, so .................

oh, a good ctv thing on how-fores of 'Hezbolah armed'

http://www.ctv.ca/se...60719/20060721/

Notice the part of Iran not only sending arms, and funds, but also advisors, like US MACV (advisors to SVietnam forces, embedded alongside) - shades of 1963: somebody's learnin.
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#266 Palisades

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 04:42 PM

^ Israel has tripled the number of Israeli soldiers it has in Lebanon since the UN Security Council approved the "cessation of hostilities" resolution. No way can you pin this latest escalation on Nasrallah. Israel's trying to redeem itself after its decidedly lackluster military showing to date. Based on its performance over the last month, the so-called IDF has only proven that it's good against civilians and Palestinians. Considering that Israel would assassinate Nasrallah in a heartbeat, it's understandable that he's not making himself an easy target for Israel's hunter-killer teams and warplanes that fly untouchable through the sky.

Edited by Solar Wind, 13 August 2006 - 07:30 PM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#267 Palisades

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Posted 13 August 2006 - 09:01 PM

The Lebanese government is saying that Hezbollah is thus far refusing to disarm south of the Litani River. The Lebanese Cabinet has postponed a meeting to discuss the disarmament of Hezbollah. The meeting, originally scheduled for Sunday, has been postponed for up to two days. Lebanon's government is resistive to having an international force in southern Lebanon until Hezbollah accepts disarmament.

An Israeli missile knocked out power in most of Tyre.

Quote

"It's time to do all we can to destroy as much as we can of the infrastructure in the next 12 or 13 hours, and then we'll see what is next," former Prime Minister Ehud Barak told CNN (link).
The Israeli government says it will honor the cessation of hostilities.

Israel has stepped up its bombardment of southern Lebanon's cities and towns in the hours before the deadline set for "cessation of hostilities." Lebanon's representative to the UN said, "I don't understand why we need this grand finale."

Edited by Solar Wind, 14 August 2006 - 03:09 AM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#268 offworlder

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 05:32 PM

Bush weighs in to press, just before a Pentagon meeting, on the latest, and the gov spin on result:

http://abcnews.go.co...tory?id=2312414

- you can read Nasrallah's over there on alertnet.org (Reuters), and Bush's thing on Iran must stop supplying ... on there too.

I myself, don't have much faith in this : Italy is pushing for a clearcut mandate if their troops will deploy in the multi-army buffer area over there, with approval of use of force to achieve multi and buffer consortium goals, like peace ; I agree you can't go over there without a clear mandate; but Nasrallah does not agree with the requisite that part of this cease-fire and buffer and multi-army thing is to disarm Hezbolah; he will NEVER allow Hezbolah to be disarmed; so he won't agree to multi-army mandate and cease-fire thing to include disarming Hezbolah.

What was the wording the europeans said in the cease fire thing? something like 'so that Hezbolah cannot act with arms', something like that. .......... so Israel is left with the thing where they began, If no one else can stop Hezbolah then we must ..... and the Hez are left with How can we exist with no arms if the whole purpose of our existance is  'Against Israel' ? (or are they now accepting Israel just not in Lebanon? then why'd they shoot rockets over the border before Israel came over across? because Israel was fighting Hamas, that's why, which has nothing to do with Lebanon! so Hezbolah's purpose is more than just whether Israel is in Lebanon, caught ya guys! )

So I have little faith in this whole thing. :(
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#269 tennyson

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:07 PM

As asked, here's a link to my Iranian military thread,

http://www.exisle.ne...ranian military

the Israeli military will be forthcoming this week. I need to update a few things and get some of it in better order then I'll post an official military thread on Israel.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#270 Palisades

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 09:17 AM

Here's a fairly decent article (IMO) on what the various governments and leaders are saying.

Edited by Solar Wind, 15 August 2006 - 09:52 AM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#271 Palisades

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 09:42 AM

And here's a Washington Post article about Hezbollah fighters and their take on the current situation.

Edited by Solar Wind, 15 August 2006 - 09:50 AM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#272 Palisades

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 12:40 PM

Haaretz columnist Amira Hass:

Quote

"We didn't mean to" is a mantra that is frequently recited in Israel when there is a discussion of the number of civilians - among them many children - who are killed by the Israel Defense Forces. To this, the claim that "they" (Hezbollah and the Palestinians) cynically exploit civilians by locating themselves among them and firing from their midst is automatically added.

This claim is made by citizens of a state who know very well where to turn off Ibn Gvirol Street in Tel Aviv to get to the security-military complex that is located in the heart of their civilian city; this claim is repeated by the parents of armed soldiers who bring their weapons home on weekends, and is recited by soldiers whose bases are adjacent to Jewish settlements in the West Bank and who have shelled civilian Palestinian neighborhoods from positions and tanks that have been stationed inside civilian settlements.

So Hezbollah wasn't alone in "cowardly blending" its military targets with civilian population centers.

Edited by Solar Wind, 16 August 2006 - 12:55 PM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#273 Rhea

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 01:12 PM

I'm so bored with each side saying they "won" I could scream.

I saw an article about a 24-year-old coming home to Southern Lebanon and looking at the wreckage, saying that the resistance won. The resistance will be stronger than ever.

And Israel claims they won, which we all know is major b*llsh*t.

<sigh>

To get these folks to stop killing each other will take a miracle. What do you do with two sets of people who are absolutely convinced God is on their side?

Edited by Rhea, 16 August 2006 - 01:13 PM.

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#274 offworlder

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 01:17 PM

Whatever happened to the good ol days eh?

those good ol days before the first world war - that was a world war because of all those alliances, then when two outfits went at it everyone was dragged into this huge conflagration, and same thing in the 1940 war, UK and France allied with Poland and half the world burns up .................... but back to those times when two scrappers would duke it out and everyone else just took care of home business and eeehhhh, like with the USA and Mexico war of 1845; let em pummel each other bloody and then send condolences .................. ?

now we have all these 'national interests', these whole 'we need the world to be a certain way for our benefit' so there's all these alliances, like USA funding Israel, and like Iran and Syria deciding if They can't be the ones close enough to fight Israel then they'll do it vicariously through the one who IS there, Hezbolah. ;) (because each big side needs the middle east to be a certain way for Them)

what would happen if we all just stayed out of this whole Israel border thing, and let them just duke it out on their own, no more supplies, no more crying havoc and UN emergency meetings and squak squak squak all around the world on it (and no more press coverage) .... ? :harper:
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#275 Palisades

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 01:28 PM

View PostRhea, on Aug 16 2006, 12:12 PM, said:

What do you do with two sets of people who are absolutely convinced God is on their side?
Well, Mark Twain wrote "The War Prayer." Of course, if you read it to the Israeli and Arab warmongers, the reaction would probably be what it was in the movie The Private History of a Campaign that Failed: stunned silence and then them murmuring, "Blasphemy."
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade



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