Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

The Air Up There

Smoking Airline 2006

  • Please log in to reply
64 replies to this topic

#21 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:00 AM

View PostScottEVill, on Jul 13 2006, 09:35 AM, said:

I didn't read the linked article, but it seems like this wouldn't ever work here for the same reason smoking sections cannot endure in American restaurants: not because people shouldn't have freedom of chocie--in an ideal world, they should--but because businesses cannot discriminate in hiring by employing ONLY smokers to crew these planes.

But it isn't discriminating. As long as the company makes it clear to the prospective employee that the company caters to smokers and that any employee is going to be in confined areas with smokers...

Discrimination would be if they refused to hire non-smokers.

The reason some non-smokers would say it's discrimination is because they expect the world to cater to their wants and desires...and the fact of any place that allows smoking bothers them. (not all non-smokers are like this, but I'm met a few who are)
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#22 Nittany Lioness

Nittany Lioness

    Craving a little perspective.

  • Islander
  • 3,537 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:07 AM

If anyone foolishly attempts to take away my red meat - I'm taking up arms, baby.  

I can throw a well knawed-on T-Bone like a ninja throwing star.  I have many skills.

I'm cold Howard.jpg


#23 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:08 AM

View PostNittany Lioness, on Jul 13 2006, 10:07 AM, said:

If anyone foolishly attempts to take away my red meat - I'm taking up arms, baby.  

I can throw a well knawed-on T-Bone like a ninja throwing star.  I have many skills.

Death by flying meat bone....LMAO!
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#24 Nittany Lioness

Nittany Lioness

    Craving a little perspective.

  • Islander
  • 3,537 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:12 AM

shhhh...

I was a special forces commando in the little known Sizzler Revolt of '87.
It's not pretty, but even ribeyes are lethal if flung at the right body part.
:xena:

I'm cold Howard.jpg


#25 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:21 AM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Jul 13 2006, 10:00 AM, said:

View PostScottEVill, on Jul 13 2006, 09:35 AM, said:

I didn't read the linked article, but it seems like this wouldn't ever work here for the same reason smoking sections cannot endure in American restaurants: not because people shouldn't have freedom of chocie--in an ideal world, they should--but because businesses cannot discriminate in hiring by employing ONLY smokers to crew these planes.

But it isn't discriminating. As long as the company makes it clear to the prospective employee that the company caters to smokers and that any employee is going to be in confined areas with smokers...

Again, American companies must provide SAFE work environments, which a confined space filled with cigarette smoke will never be.      

Quote

Discrimination would be if they refused to hire non-smokers.

Only smokers have already assumed the risks associated with such an environment, so even if they didn't have an outright policy against hiring nonsmokers, that would be the end result.  And what if one of their employees decided to (gasp!) *quit* smoking?

It wouldn't work here.

Quote

The reason some non-smokers would say it's discrimination is because they expect the world to cater to their wants and desires...and the fact of any place that allows smoking bothers them. (not all non-smokers are like this, but I'm met a few who are)

It's the reverse: smokers want their desire to do their drug any place they choose to be catered to.  Not *all* smokers are like this, but many.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#26 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:25 AM

The link doesn't work for me.  But...what are the FAA rules?  

Seems like smoking is banned on all flights within the US; does that mean it's also banned on all flights departing from the us or coming to the US?  It has seemed so on all my recent flights, even an Air France one operated by Delta.  And the French are, overall, chain smokers.  I have wondered about Olympic, as the Greeks are also, overall, chain smokers and wondered if they could endure not smoking for 11 hours.

Anyway, that airline won't be flying within the US if the FAA has any say!  

It would never work in situations where the airline was the only one, or one of few serving an area.  On routes like between LA and New York, kill yoursleves if you want - there are plenty of flights.  My suspicion is that most terrorists are smokers, so these flights would be attractive to them... But the FAA probably wouldn't let an airline filled with smokers fly between LA and New York.  

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#27 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:29 AM

View PostScottEVill, on Jul 13 2006, 02:21 PM, said:

Again, American companies must provide SAFE work environments, which a confined space filled with cigarette smoke will never be.

Well they could always hire illegals since companies are already doing that and ignoring the safe work environment rules since the illegals won't report them... Of course that would mean the smokers would have to learn Spanish!  :angel:

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#28 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:34 AM

Yeah it must be safe so they must put fuel into airplanes that will not explode. Into airplanes that fall out of the sky. I do not smoke but I see the acts of Super Nanny as something aimed at taking rights away. We already talked about how it is becomming so you cannot smoke on the front porch of your own home.  

And ZWolf do not worry they will not take the big mac out of your hands they will simply shut the McDonalds down so you better enjoy that Mac as it will be last one you will get.

See it's all about you being made safe. You must wear a seatbelt because you face fines if you do not. Yet the insurance Co. is not required to drop the premiums of their clients.

I wear a seatbelt because it makes sense to do so. I have done it since I was 16.  But the state looks to fill it's coffers and the insurnce companies get to keep rates high while getting the state to lower risk.

So with their friends the insurnace companies the Smoke Nazi's are not going to be happy till they are in my house looking to make sure I am safe from smoke and that 10 years from now the new home owner moving in here is not going to flop dead from the smoke from that cigar I had in 2001.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#29 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 11:35 AM

Quote

G1223: How about dealing with a customer who has a heart attack at the same altitutde.
It is called a AED and most planes have them now or if not you use CPR.   Worse case scenario one passenger dies and the plane doesn’t crash to the ground.

Quote

G1223: Or a roof of the passanger compartment snapping off.
Please cite the last time a passenger airliner turned itself into a convertible in midair?   Commercial airline mishaps are very rare and structural failures of commercial airliners that result in the loss of the aircraft are even rarer.  Now compare that to the number of smokers who accidentally light their chairs, themselves, their home, or the outside afire due to their carelessness.  Airline crashes happen a lot less often but new stories of people setting their apartment afire with a cigarette are a dime a dozen.

Quote

Scherzo: Smoking was allowed on flights for years without Irwin Allen movies breaking out on them
On top of what Tennyson said most of our clothing today is various synthetic materials compared to the natural fibers during those days.

Quote

G1223: Yeah it must be safe so they must put fuel into airplanes that will not explode.
Jet fuel contrary to popular opinion is not explosive but a fairly stable fuel.  If you have a lot of vapors then you may have an explosion but overall gasoline is more dangerous in my opinion and avgas is the worse.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#30 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 02:06 PM

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Jul 13 2006, 12:35 PM, said:

Now compare that to the number of smokers who accidentally light their chairs, themselves, their home, or the outside afire due to their carelessness.  Airline crashes happen a lot less often but new stories of people setting their apartment afire with a cigarette are a dime a dozen.

Good point. And that's why some states have that new cigarette out now...where if you don't smoke it for like 30 second or so it goes out. Those cigarettes taste awful BTW...If I had to smoke those...shudders at the very thought.

As for those that set themselves on fire...As harsh as this is to say...they were stupid enough to fall asleep with a lit cigarette, they deserve what they got. I fell started to fall asleep and burnt a nice hole in my comforter, and got burned on my leg...I was stupid, got what I deserved, and you know what? I have never fallen asleep with a lit cigarette again.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#31 Broph

Broph
  • Islander
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 02:30 PM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Jul 13 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

As for those that set themselves on fire...As harsh as this is to say...they were stupid enough to fall asleep with a lit cigarette, they deserve what they got. I fell started to fall asleep and burnt a nice hole in my comforter, and got burned on my leg...I was stupid, got what I deserved, and you know what? I have never fallen asleep with a lit cigarette again.

And does the rest of the plane deserve it as well?

#32 Talkie Toaster

Talkie Toaster

    There's no Shepard without Vakarian

  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 03:09 PM

View PostG1223, on Jul 13 2006, 03:34 PM, said:

Smoke Nazi's Smoke Nazi's Smoke Nazi's

Why do you continuously use this term?

1) Comparing anti-smoking campaigners with the Nazi party is... disengenious at best

2) It's equivalent to calling all smokers "feabled willed drug addicts" - its hardly conductive to debate.
Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.

#33 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 04:11 PM

Are the ventilation systems on planes that good?  I've known plenty of smokers who have had to crack a window when the smoke got too thick even for them.   Can't do that up there. :eh:

Edited by Caesar of the Stars, 13 July 2006 - 04:11 PM.


#34 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 04:18 PM

View PostCaesar of the Stars, on Jul 13 2006, 10:11 PM, said:

Are the ventilation systems on planes that good?  I've known plenty of smokers who have had to crack a window when the smoke got too thick even for them.   Can't do that up there. :eh:

I've spent vastly more time on planes than I care to consider, and I wouldn't have thought so. But I also doubt people will be stoking for 12 hours straight (or however long the flight is)

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#35 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 04:54 PM

View PostCaesar of the Stars, on Jul 13 2006, 09:11 PM, said:

Are the ventilation systems on planes that good?  I've known plenty of smokers who have had to crack a window when the smoke got too thick even for them.   Can't do that up there. :eh:

Definitely not.  I'm allergic to tobacco smoke.  When I took polar flights from LA to Europe, all around 8+ hours, back when smoking was allowed, I had an allergic cold the first week of every trip and another after I got back.  I sat in non-smoking but it didn't help a bit.  Not to mention that when the smoking section was in the back of coach class, we had to stand there for the restrooms.  Then there was the airline that had smoking and non-smoking across the aisle from each other, like that helped anybody!  Now that smoking is banned, I don't have those allergic colds to ruin my holidays.  

I do have to worry about how smokers can manage on smoke-free long flights, though.  Free nicotine patches or gum???  Cannisters of smoke and a mask??  My overseas flights in recent years have been from Atlanta or JFK so they're shorter.

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#36 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 05:14 PM

View PostTalkie Toaster, on Jul 13 2006, 04:09 PM, said:

View PostG1223, on Jul 13 2006, 03:34 PM, said:

Smoke Nazi's Smoke Nazi's Smoke Nazi's

Why do you continuously use this term?

1) Comparing anti-smoking campaigners with the Nazi party is... disengenious at best

2) It's equivalent to calling all smokers "feabled willed drug addicts" - its hardly conductive to debate.

Because I have seen a business close it's smoking breakroom. Yes a business that had two breakrooms. Those employees get to go outside to smoke. Which is fine if the weather permits.  But I live in Indiana and the weather can change very fast.

We have these kind and wonderful people to whom the smell of smoke on the person's clothing is enough to  send them into rants. These rants cost a few workers their jobs.

So excuse for looking at them as bastards worthy of being put to a wall. As some of those workers were working for rent and food money.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#37 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 05:30 PM

View PostThemis, on Jul 13 2006, 04:54 PM, said:

View PostCaesar of the Stars, on Jul 13 2006, 09:11 PM, said:

Are the ventilation systems on planes that good?  I've known plenty of smokers who have had to crack a window when the smoke got too thick even for them.   Can't do that up there. :eh:

Definitely not.  I'm allergic to tobacco smoke.  When I took polar flights from LA to Europe, all around 8+ hours, back when smoking was allowed, I had an allergic cold the first week of every trip and another after I got back.  I sat in non-smoking but it didn't help a bit.  Not to mention that when the smoking section was in the back of coach class, we had to stand there for the restrooms.  Then there was the airline that had smoking and non-smoking across the aisle from each other, like that helped anybody!  Now that smoking is banned, I don't have those allergic colds to ruin my holidays.  

I do have to worry about how smokers can manage on smoke-free long flights, though.  Free nicotine patches or gum???  Cannisters of smoke and a mask??  My overseas flights in recent years have been from Atlanta or JFK so they're shorter.

Themis


I'm sorry but I had to laugh at the plane separating the smokers and nonsmokers by putting them on differnet sides of the aisle.   The reasoning behind that escapes me, but it's no different than a lot of restaurants that allow smoking.  It just wafts right on over.

Edited by Caesar of the Stars, 13 July 2006 - 05:31 PM.


#38 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 06:09 PM

View PostCaesar of the Stars, on Jul 13 2006, 10:30 PM, said:

I'm sorry but I had to laugh at the plane separating the smokers and nonsmokers by putting them on differnet sides of the aisle.   The reasoning behind that escapes me, but it's no different than a lot of restaurants that allow smoking.  It just wafts right on over.

Yep - I sure wasn't laughing on that flight...and got one of my worst allergic colds.

Themis
Cats will never be extinct!

#39 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 06:13 PM

View PostThemis, on Jul 13 2006, 06:09 PM, said:

View PostCaesar of the Stars, on Jul 13 2006, 10:30 PM, said:

I'm sorry but I had to laugh at the plane separating the smokers and nonsmokers by putting them on differnet sides of the aisle.   The reasoning behind that escapes me, but it's no different than a lot of restaurants that allow smoking.  It just wafts right on over.

Yep - I sure wasn't laughing on that flight...and got one of my worst allergic colds.

Themis


I hope you didn't take offense, I'm sure your allergies are serious.  I was laughing at the stupidity of people who can design airplanes and run businesses but that's the best they could come up with?

Edited by Caesar of the Stars, 13 July 2006 - 06:29 PM.


#40 Themis

Themis
  • Islander
  • 6,544 posts

Posted 13 July 2006 - 06:23 PM

View PostG1223, on Jul 13 2006, 10:14 PM, said:

Because I have seen a business close it's smoking breakroom. Yes a business that had two breakrooms. Those employees get to go outside to smoke. Which is fine if the weather permits.  But I live in Indiana and the weather can change very fast.

We have these kind and wonderful people to whom the smell of smoke on the person's clothing is enough to  send them into rants. These rants cost a few workers their jobs.

So excuse for looking at them as bastards worthy of being put to a wall. As some of those workers were working for rent and food money.

I guess they were working for cigarette money too.

Separate rooms does not equal separate ventillation systems - though they help.  Maybe the companies were trying to encourage employees to quit to lower insurance rates.   If you've been around enough smoke to make your clothing smell during the work day, you've been around a hell of a lot of smoke and it would send me into rants if I had to be near you.  

Weather is changeable in Nashville too but there seems to be enough overhead shelter that people have no problem going outside to smoke.  

Frankly if you want to smoke badly enough to go outside in 92 degree weather with 92% humidity, or to go outside in rain or snow, you've got a really bad habit, not something you do just for pleasure.  (Some people actually like a reason to go outside during the day and escape the office or other work space.)  There's no reason why your really bad habit should affect me.  

And don't give me that crap about the effects of fossil fuels and air pollution - just because there are other things around that affect my health doesn't give any individual the "right" to do so themselves.  We can control the individual by restricting where they can smoke, i.e., not in an enclosed public space.  At least we are working on the other problems - they just will take a lot more work.  

People who talk about other health problems - obesity, alcohol, etc - overlook the fact that smoking is the only thing amongst all those red herrings that directly affects my health.  Not my insurance rates, not my tax rates, not the possibility of a traffic accident - a DIRECT effect on my health.

So keep that weed away from me.  

"Weed" on the other hand - I'm not allergic and it smells better.... :angel:  I'd rather that were legal than tobacco... at least it eases pain and nausea in people who are ill.  What has tobacco done for anybody?  Oh yeah, it stops the addicted from having withdrawal symptoms...

Do another drug that doesn't enter MY system and you might affect me financially and you might cause an accident, but you do not directly affect my health.  So do some coke after your meal in a non-smoking restaurant or in a break room and let me breathe.  

Themis

Edited by Themis, 13 July 2006 - 06:28 PM.

Cats will never be extinct!



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Smoking, Airline, 2006

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users