Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Yates found Not Guilty by reason of insanity

Crime Andrea Yates Murder of Children Not Guilty Insanity 2006

  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#21 Hibblette

Hibblette
  • Islander
  • 4,228 posts

Posted 26 July 2006 - 08:28 PM

Post-partum is more then just feelings of murder towards your children...

http://www.4woman.go.../postpartum.htm

Have you ever had that sense of not wanting something to end...you know a chapter in your life is finished, now a new chapter.  I think men are capable of having these feelings-I know my father has talked about the feeling that would come when a base camp would close while he was in the Air Force.  

How many remember in High School, your Senior year and how, well if it wasn't you-possibly there was someone that would say, "This is the last Football Pep Rally we will have."  "Or this is our last Christmas Pageant or School Musical that we of the senior class will be a part of."

Some people (male and female) go "eh" while others feel a sense of sadness or remorse or caution...

Personally I think Andrea suffered from something more then just the post partum.  I think she had problems before she had kids.  The responsibility of motherhood and the natural post-partum effect didn't help her condition none plus not having a supportive husband who also needed some brains. :glare:

I believe with all my heart those children are at peace and since I am a Christian I believe they are with God.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#22 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 26 July 2006 - 09:27 PM

View PostMel, on Jul 26 2006, 08:34 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Jul 26 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

I believe the jury reached the proper verdict. Yate had a long history of documented and severe mental illness. She will likely spend the rest of her life in a mental institution. Personally, if i were looking for justice for the deaths of those children, I'd lock that idiot husband of hers up. He was sane, he knew she was mentally unstable and still continued to have children with her inspite of the doctors warnings. He left a mentally unstable women trapped in cramped quarters with a gaggle of kids to care for all day alone. If that isn't criminally negligent I don't know what is. Yet he walks free, in fact I believe he's remarried.

Lost Cause and I have discussed this at length.  Personally, I think he's more responsible than she is.  She was having these children so close together, I'm not sure she'd fully recovered from one birth before she was pregnant with the next. Plus, at least from what I've read online (not sure if it's accurate) she was on/off various anti-psychotic meds throughout the time perioud.  Her judgement may have been clouded by either her disease and/or her meds.  He wasn't drugged, wasn't psychotic, and should have known better than to have pushed for (or allowed) more children.  I wish they had gotten him on some type of negligence charge.

Agreed.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#23 scherzo

scherzo

    I know things

  • Islander
  • 3,388 posts

Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:00 PM

Quote

Yates drowned 6-month-old Mary, 2-year-old Luke, 3-year-old Paul, 5-year-old John and 7-year-old Noah in their Houston-area home in June 2001. Her attorneys said she suffered from severe postpartum psychosis and, in a delusional state, believed that Satan was inside her and that killing the youngsters would save them from hell.
Throw

away

the key.  :Oo:

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
Posted Image

#24 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:07 PM

View PostLin731, on Jul 27 2006, 12:12 AM, said:

Yet he walks free, in fact I believe he's remarried.


Yes, indeed he has remarried---a woman he met in church and the wedding took place only 2 days before this trial began.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#25 Cheile

Cheile

    proud J/Cer ~ ten years and counting

  • Islander
  • 10,776 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 01:58 AM

View PostMel, on Jul 26 2006, 05:34 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Jul 26 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

I believe the jury reached the proper verdict. Yate had a long history of documented and severe mental illness. She will likely spend the rest of her life in a mental institution. Personally, if i were looking for justice for the deaths of those children, I'd lock that idiot husband of hers up. He was sane, he knew she was mentally unstable and still continued to have children with her inspite of the doctors warnings. He left a mentally unstable women trapped in cramped quarters with a gaggle of kids to care for all day alone. If that isn't criminally negligent I don't know what is. Yet he walks free, in fact I believe he's remarried.

Lost Cause and I have discussed this at length.  Personally, I think he's more responsible than she is.  She was having these children so close together, I'm not sure she'd fully recovered from one birth before she was pregnant with the next. Plus, at least from what I've read online (not sure if it's accurate) she was on/off various anti-psychotic meds throughout the time perioud.  Her judgement may have been clouded by either her disease and/or her meds.  He wasn't drugged, wasn't psychotic, and should have known better than to have pushed for (or allowed) more children.  I wish they had gotten him on some type of negligence charge.

puhleeeeeeeeeease.

it's his fault SHE refused to take her medication the doctors gave her after the postpartum issues with baby three?  it's his fault SHE didn't either get her tubes tied or use protection??  it's his fault he was trying to earn a living for his family??  it's his fault she chose not to get herself help??  B.S.  she's an adult....she should have followed the doctor's instructions and taken the damn medication.  he can't produce children by himself.  she obviously agreed to have more children, unless you're going to cough up with some evidence that marital rape was involved.

Quote

Religion was the reason they didnít stop having children.

oh please, spare me the "oppressed by Christianity woman" line.

she's an adult.  she chose to kill these poor children and then either play dumb enough to get her defense attorney to come up with this insanity nonsense or the defense attorney picked the right shrink who believed her whole "God told me they would become serial killers and prostitutes and to save them from these fates" line of crap.

i'm with LOTS.  i hope the members of this jury can sleep at night.

Posted Image


"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

Twitter * Facebook * ExIsle at Facebook

icon by mercscilla @ LJ

#26 Raina

Raina

    Cpt. Raina 'Starlee'

  • Validation Team
  • 6,009 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 02:10 AM

View Postemsparks, on Jul 26 2006, 02:35 PM, said:

I would point out that we all are: one hit on the head, one microbe, one morsel of tainted food, one whiff of the wrong common chemical, or one poorly performed medical procedure, away from devastating mental illness.
But then it could be argued that one of those things could cause someone brain damage, thus causing them to drop out of school, causing them to fall into the wrong crowd, get into drugs, and ultimately lead a life of crime. And we would define someone like that as just a criminal, not a poor insane person.

Or for that matter, you could blame practically anything on mental illness: some guy has a bad childhood, his life sucks, so he gets into drugs to make himself feel better and gets into crime to pay for that. He may not be crazy enough to claim that God told him to do it, but it could be argued that he suffered from clinical depression and thus is not responsible.

So where do you start blaming mental illness and not the person?

On the one hand, you can blame everything on mental illness because the person's not what we consider 'normal' based on the fact that they committed a crime, but then on the other hand mental illness is part of the way the person is and thus they're responsible for what goes on in their own brain.

I'm not sure which side I'm on in the debate: I suffer from a mental illness myself so I can sympathize with people who have inexplicable moods and urges; but then on the other hand I would blame myself (not my illness) if I ever snapped and did something horrible (which I doubt I would ever do, btw) because it would ultimately be me doing the deed, not some mysterious entity in my mind.

Edited by Raina, 27 July 2006 - 02:13 AM.


"First thing they tell you is to assume you're already dead... dead men don't get scared or freeze up under fire. Me, I'm just worried that hell's gonna be a lonely place. And I'm gonna fill it up with every toaster son of a bitch I find." -Racetrack

"I believe what goes around comes around and if I am the instrument of 'coming round' then I'll do it happily. " -Shal


Viper Squadron CAG
Roman Warrior
Browncoat

#27 Mel

Mel
  • Islander
  • 447 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:01 AM

View PostRaina, on Jul 27 2006, 02:10 AM, said:

Or for that matter, you could blame practically anything on mental illness: some guy has a bad childhood, his life sucks, so he gets into drugs to make himself feel better and gets into crime to pay for that. He may not be crazy enough to claim that God told him to do it, but it could be argued that he suffered from clinical depression and thus is not responsible.

So where do you start blaming mental illness and not the person?


On the one hand, you can blame everything on mental illness because the person's not what we consider 'normal' based on the fact that they committed a crime, but then on the other hand mental illness is part of the way the person is and thus they're responsible for what goes on in their own brain.

I would argue that there's a difference between depression and psychosis.  I suffer from depression, I'm not insane.  I can clearly differentiate right and wrong.  If I were to kill someone (which I have zero intention of every doing) I would know what I was doing.  

I may be wrong, but my understanding of our state laws is that TX has pretty high standards for the "not guilty by reason of insanity" verdict.  In my opinion, that's how it should be.  Only those people who have lost touch with reality and/or the capability to understand right and wrong through disease (not voluntary ingestion of a drug) should be able to get that verdict.  And, then, they should be confined and treated until they are no longer a threat to themselves or others.


Quote

puhleeeeeeeeeease.

it's his fault SHE refused to take her medication the doctors gave her after the postpartum issues with baby three? it's his fault SHE didn't either get her tubes tied or use protection?? it's his fault he was trying to earn a living for his family?? it's his fault she chose not to get herself help?? B.S. she's an adult....she should have followed the doctor's instructions and taken the damn medication. he can't produce children by himself. she obviously agreed to have more children, unless you're going to cough up with some evidence that marital rape was involved.

Post-partum psychosis is a very serious disease, and according to Williams Obstetrics (22nd Edition) "postpartum psychosis has a high risk of recurrence in the next pregnancy. In most instances, these women ultimately develop relapsing, chronic psychotic illness."   Unfortunately, people with psychotic illnesses often don't take their medicine properly or properly follow medical advice.  Their illness clouds their medical judgement.  If those around them do not watch for the signs, then unfortunately bad things can happen.  Also, apparently, her psychiatrist was changing her medications pretty dramatically at the time and was relying on her being watched at all times.

You don't believe that Randy Yates bears any 1) moral responsibility for knowingly encouraging a mentally ill woman to have a child against her doctors' strong recommendations?  2) Legal negligence for leaving his children with a women whom doctors had said should not be left alone?  Mother or not, he had been told that she should not be left alone with the children.  (In his defense, I believe his mother was going to come over later, so she wasn't going to be alone all day, but clearly even a little while was too long.)

#28 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:20 AM

View PostCheile, on Jul 27 2006, 01:58 AM, said:

View PostMel, on Jul 26 2006, 05:34 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Jul 26 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

I believe the jury reached the proper verdict. Yate had a long history of documented and severe mental illness. She will likely spend the rest of her life in a mental institution. Personally, if i were looking for justice for the deaths of those children, I'd lock that idiot husband of hers up. He was sane, he knew she was mentally unstable and still continued to have children with her inspite of the doctors warnings. He left a mentally unstable women trapped in cramped quarters with a gaggle of kids to care for all day alone. If that isn't criminally negligent I don't know what is. Yet he walks free, in fact I believe he's remarried.

Lost Cause and I have discussed this at length.  Personally, I think he's more responsible than she is.  She was having these children so close together, I'm not sure she'd fully recovered from one birth before she was pregnant with the next. Plus, at least from what I've read online (not sure if it's accurate) she was on/off various anti-psychotic meds throughout the time perioud.  Her judgement may have been clouded by either her disease and/or her meds.  He wasn't drugged, wasn't psychotic, and should have known better than to have pushed for (or allowed) more children.  I wish they had gotten him on some type of negligence charge.

puhleeeeeeeeeease.

it's his fault SHE refused to take her medication the doctors gave her after the postpartum issues with baby three?  it's his fault SHE didn't either get her tubes tied or use protection??  it's his fault he was trying to earn a living for his family??  it's his fault she chose not to get herself help??  B.S.  she's an adult....she should have followed the doctor's instructions and taken the damn medication.  he can't produce children by himself.  she obviously agreed to have more children, unless you're going to cough up with some evidence that marital rape was involved.

Quote

Religion was the reason they didnít stop having children.

oh please, spare me the "oppressed by Christianity woman" line.

she's an adult.  she chose to kill these poor children and then either play dumb enough to get her defense attorney to come up with this insanity nonsense or the defense attorney picked the right shrink who believed her whole "God told me they would become serial killers and prostitutes and to save them from these fates" line of crap.

i'm with LOTS.  i hope the members of this jury can sleep at night.


That's just the point, she wasn't mentally stable and had been institutionalized before all that happened.  It was in the article LOTS linked to at the top of the page.  Her husband knew she had mental issues and as the "sane" person should have taken better care than leaving those kids with her.  The fact that she was mentally ill meant that she might not take her medication.

Edited by Caesar of the Stars, 27 July 2006 - 11:10 AM.


#29 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 10:42 AM

Reason #7,561 that I'm an athiest:  if I ever hear the voice of "God" telling me to do anything, I'm gonna know I'm nuts and will go seek help, 'cuz... ain't no such thang, babe.

This happens way too often, this "God told me to" thing.  I had a short-story idea once that a guy interviews all these mothers who claim God told them to bash their kids with rocks or drown them in tubs or lock them in the wheat bin with the purple crayons or whatever these crazed "divinely-inspired" moms do... and he finds out they all describe God's voice as sounding exactly the same, and figures out that maybe God's the one who's nuts.   I mean, who can say?  

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#30 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 02:34 PM

There was some mention of a particular 'preacher'  that the Yates were followers of and he was a pretty radical sort.  Don't remember the name right now but it was mentioned more than once during the previous trial.  

Not to get too much into the religious aspect of this but sometimes the voice in your head telling you to do something is not necessarily that of God....

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#31 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 02:58 PM

View PostCheile, on Jul 27 2006, 06:58 AM, said:

View PostMel, on Jul 26 2006, 05:34 PM, said:

View PostLin731, on Jul 26 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

I believe the jury reached the proper verdict. Yate had a long history of documented and severe mental illness. She will likely spend the rest of her life in a mental institution. Personally, if i were looking for justice for the deaths of those children, I'd lock that idiot husband of hers up. He was sane, he knew she was mentally unstable and still continued to have children with her inspite of the doctors warnings. He left a mentally unstable women trapped in cramped quarters with a gaggle of kids to care for all day alone. If that isn't criminally negligent I don't know what is. Yet he walks free, in fact I believe he's remarried.

Lost Cause and I have discussed this at length.  Personally, I think he's more responsible than she is.  She was having these children so close together, I'm not sure she'd fully recovered from one birth before she was pregnant with the next. Plus, at least from what I've read online (not sure if it's accurate) she was on/off various anti-psychotic meds throughout the time perioud.  Her judgement may have been clouded by either her disease and/or her meds.  He wasn't drugged, wasn't psychotic, and should have known better than to have pushed for (or allowed) more children.  I wish they had gotten him on some type of negligence charge.

puhleeeeeeeeeease.

it's his fault SHE refused to take her medication the doctors gave her after the postpartum issues with baby three?  it's his fault SHE didn't either get her tubes tied or use protection??  it's his fault he was trying to earn a living for his family??  it's his fault she chose not to get herself help??  B.S.  she's an adult....she should have followed the doctor's instructions and taken the damn medication.  he can't produce children by himself.  she obviously agreed to have more children, unless you're going to cough up with some evidence that marital rape was involved.

If he cared enough to protect his children he would have made sure that she took her meds.  He would have gotten a vasectomy or ordered the drs to tie her tubes while she was having the last baby.  

The drs told them not to have any more kids or her problems would get worse.

He was told not to leave her alone with the kids.  He says that he was more afraid that she would hurt herself  but not afraid that she would hurt the kids.  Would it have been okay for him to leave her alone and for those kids to see their mother slash her wrists or kill herself?  

And how many times have we heard about parents killing their children?  Parents who were sane and had no history of mental illness.  Who did so to hurt the other parent in a custody issue or whatever?

Rusty Yates did not do what was best in the interest of protecting his children.   He could have committed Andrea....the mental health history was there.  Maybe those children would still be alive today IF  he had listened to her drs.   Maybe he was living in his own little world of denial and his children paid the price.

There is an irony in Andrea receiving treatment.  The better she gets, the more she remembers and feels the pain and horror of what she did.  She will never leave the mental facility IMHO

edited to provide a link as to the difference between what would have happened witheither verdict

Edited by trikay, 27 July 2006 - 03:15 PM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#32 Eskaminzim

Eskaminzim

    Head eggs and butt toast

  • Islander
  • 559 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:32 PM

Doing what I do for a living, I've dealt with women with PPD all of my adult life.  I've also dealt with abused infants (particularly the disgusting Shaken Baby Syndrome) all of my adult life, and if it were up to me, I'd put most parents guilty of this crap in slowly boiling oil, an inch at a time.

In this woman's case, however, I think it was a travesty of justice to jail her, and am glad that she is hopefully now getting the treatment she so desparately deserves.  Right before killing her children, she went to three different psych docs and begged them to commit her, telling them that she was going to kill her children if she wasn't locked up.  She begged social services to take her kids away from her becuase she was afraid she was going to kill them.

No one listened to her.  The quack that claimed to be her psych doc didn't up her meds even though he ADMITTED that she was a danger to her children, he didn't change her meds, he didn't have her voluntarily or INvoluntarily committed.  No, he just sent her back home with those beautiful, innocent kids knowing that her mental illness, the one she had for years, the one she was treated for for years, was leading her toward what happened.  

You won't often hear me say that the 'system' (whatever that may mean) has failed someone, because adults have to live up to the responsibility for their own actions, but in this case, the system failed this woman, and her children.  You shouldn't have to BEG for the help you need to keep you from murdering your own children.  You shouldn't have every single door closed in your face when you know that your illness is going to force you to do something you do not want to do.  She did everything she could to act as responsibly as she could, given her severe illness.  And that's what this woman is.  She's sick.  Mentally sick.  And she knew it.  And her damned husband knew it.  And her goddamned doctors knew it.  And the cops knew it.  And the judges knew it.  And useless social services knew it.  And no one helped her when she was clearly begging for it.

And yes, I'll 'blame' the husband just as much, because as an adult, you don't, or shouldn't, put your children's lives (or your children to be) in the hands of a mentally diminshed person whose capacity for making rational decisions is pretty much zilch.  If someone's on psych meds, and those meds are working, fine.  But he knew they weren't.  EVERYONE knew they weren't.  But he furking TALKED her into having another child, even when he KNEW that it would only make her illness worse.  You can't, I don't believe, talk about her as a rational adult capable of making the decision to have or not to have another child.  When you're suffering from a depression severe enough to make you want to murder someone, you're not exactly operating on all cylinders.

You wouldn't, or shouldn't, give an actively suicidal person a loaded gun, and for christ's sweet sake, you don't impregnate someone with such severe PPD that she's heard voices commanding her to murder her kids from child ONE.  Frankly, I'm surprised at the strength she managed to have to hang on without killing for as long as she did.

Andrea Yates never received the help she was so desparately begging for, and her kids suffered for it.  And that's just plain sick.

And I think this is the FIRST time I've EVER sided with the mother on one of these things.

#33 The Oncoming Storm

The Oncoming Storm

    Water's wet; sky's blue; and Satan Clause is out there.

  • Islander
  • 3,351 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 04:14 PM

View PostEskaminzim, on Jul 27 2006, 03:32 PM, said:

In this woman's case, however, I think it was a travesty of justice to jail her, and am glad that she is hopefully now getting the treatment she so desparately deserves. Right before killing her children, she went to three different psych docs and begged them to commit her, telling them that she was going to kill her children if she wasn't locked up. She begged social services to take her kids away from her becuase she was afraid she was going to kill them.

No one listened to her. The quack that claimed to be her psych doc didn't up her meds even though he ADMITTED that she was a danger to her children, he didn't change her meds, he didn't have her voluntarily or INvoluntarily committed. No, he just sent her back home with those beautiful, innocent kids knowing that her mental illness, the one she had for years, the one she was treated for for years, was leading her toward what happened.

You won't often hear me say that the 'system' (whatever that may mean) has failed someone, because adults have to live up to the responsibility for their own actions, but in this case, the system failed this woman, and her children. You shouldn't have to BEG for the help you need to keep you from murdering your own children. You shouldn't have every single door closed in your face when you know that your illness is going to force you to do something you do not want to do. She did everything she could to act as responsibly as she could, given her severe illness. And that's what this woman is. She's sick. Mentally sick. And she knew it. And her damned husband knew it. And her goddamned doctors knew it. And the cops knew it. And the judges knew it. And useless social services knew it. And no one helped her when she was clearly begging for it. . .
And I think this is the FIRST time I've EVER sided with the mother on one of these things.


What's scary about all this is that the crazy woman knew more than the sane people and the sane people wouldn't do a damn thing about it.  

And E, I started out thinking that this woman needed be fried in boiling oil as well, but, over time, as evidence has come out concerning her family and beliefs and the lack of treatment she got for her condition, I swung the other way.  I believe in justice.  Justice for her was not locking he away where she couldn't be treated accordingly for her psychosis (which still occurs; she still has lapses where she believes her children are alive and has written letters to her children early on), justice was helping a woman who had had a massive psychotic break.  Justice for those children would be making a "eunichy" of Rusty.  JMHO.

Edited by Lost Cause, 27 July 2006 - 04:15 PM.

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." -- John Wayne


Sometimes the best causes worth fighting for are lost causes. -- Me.

Formerly Known as "Lost Cause."


#34 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 06:08 PM

Quote

puhleeeeeeeeeease.

it's his fault SHE refused to take her medication the doctors gave her after the postpartum issues with baby three? it's his fault SHE didn't either get her tubes tied or use protection?? it's his fault he was trying to earn a living for his family?? it's his fault she chose not to get herself help?? B.S. she's an adult....she should have followed the doctor's instructions and taken the damn medication. he can't produce children by himself. she obviously agreed to have more children, unless you're going to cough up with some evidence that marital rape was involved.

Ummmm yes actually it is If (as the sane person in the marriage) you completely ignore the doctors warnings and continue to have children with your unstable spouse, then yes it is your fault. BTW...Since you mentioned her getting her tubes tied or birthcontrol, why wasn't the sane partner in the marriage using condoms? Why didn't he get a vasectomy? Why did he leave his children home with a mother he knew mentally unstable?  Also I'd point out that she had been taking her medication prior to the killings. Her doctor took her off them. How on Earth do you expect a seriously unstable person to even remember to take their medicine, let alone birthcontrol is beyond me. Were the "voices" supposed to remind her?

puhleeeeeeeeeease

Quote

No one listened to her. The quack that claimed to be her psych doc didn't up her meds even though he ADMITTED that she was a danger to her children, he didn't change her meds, he didn't have her voluntarily or INvoluntarily committed. No, he just sent her back home with those beautiful, innocent kids knowing that her mental illness, the one she had for years, the one she was treated for for years, was leading her toward what happened.

I could be mistaken Eska but it was my understanding that her quack doctor had taken her off her meds entirely, refused to put her back on them inspite of numerous pleas to do so, when her condition began to worsen. I beleive he was trying to "wean" her off them. As I understood it, a day or so prior to the murders was the last time they'd gone to Dr. Death only to be refused medication once again. Overall though, her husband, her doctor and the system failed her and the children paid for those failures.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#35 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 06:39 PM

About the medication issue....(it's an older article but the facts are there to see)


Quote

For example, he said, the commission's review of Yates' medical records showed that upon her second admittance to Devereux on May 4, Saeed increased her dose of the antidepressant Effexor from 200 to 450 milligrams per day. According to the commission's consultants, that was well above the standard therapeutic dose of 37.5 milligrams per day, Boswell said.

But Houston psychiatrist Lucy Puryear, who specializes in women's psychiatric problems related to giving birth and who testified at Yates' trial, disagreed, noting she occasionally prescribes up to 300 milligrams per day.

"As a physician, you're allowed to use your clinical judgment and increase dosages as long as you monitor for side effects and adverse effects," Puryear said. "The fact he raised her antidepressant medication did not in any way contribute to what happened."

Puryear said Saeed's greatest error was taking Yates off the antipsychotic drug Haldol two weeks before she killed her children.

Boswell said his group undertook the study of Yates' medical records after reading of trial testimony about Saeed's handling of her medication.

Boswell said he spoke to George Parnham, one of Yates' attorneys, about the commission's findings near the end of the trial.

Parnham was unavailable for comment Wednesday, but his partner, Wendell Odom, said the defense team had to rely upon their own medical experts for advice because it constantly received a barrage of unsolicited, conflicting information.

"I don't know of any discovery that is brand new that we didn't know about with regards to medication," Odom said. "But there was testimony to this: A treatment that involves yanking someone off an antipsychotic and placing them on something else when there was a need for the antipsychotic -- if you do that, you are exacerbating the problem, not correcting any problem."

Edited by trikay, 27 July 2006 - 06:41 PM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#36 Eskaminzim

Eskaminzim

    Head eggs and butt toast

  • Islander
  • 559 posts

Posted 27 July 2006 - 06:42 PM

Lin:

I know he took her off the Haldol, but it was my understanding that he had kept her on other meds that weren't helping.

Either way, it's a total case of malpractice and I hope the asswipe fries.

#37 Bobby

Bobby

    FKA LiberalBob

  • Islander
  • 4,369 posts

Posted 28 July 2006 - 05:44 AM

Quote

Either way, it's a total case of malpractice and I hope the asswipe fries.

Is there anything they can do to her doctors since they screwed up so badly?

Edited by Life for Rent, 28 July 2006 - 08:24 AM.


#38 Tricia

Tricia

    To err on the side of kindness is seldom an error.

  • Islander
  • 10,245 posts

Posted 28 July 2006 - 08:04 AM

The family did file a complaint against the doctor but I don't know what was done if anything to him

Quote

Andrea Pia Yates' family filed a complaint Wednesday with the district attorney's office about the psychiatrist treating her at the time she drowned her five children.

The complaint alleges Dr. Mohammed Saeed, former medical director at Devereux Texas Treatment Network in League City, did not properly manage her medication and released her from the hospital when she was dangerously delusional.

"We feel that Dr. Saeed's actions of excessive, harmful treatment, and his lack of action to warn about the endangerment of the children, made him negligent in his duty to protect the children," states the complaint signed by Yates' brothers, Brian and Andrew Kennedy, and her mother, Jutta Karin Kennedy.

This info is from an article written April 11, 2002.  I'm not sure where else to look for any results of this action as it isn't included in any of the timelines or articles that the Houston Chronicle has linked to from the history of the case

The link to this article is in my previous post #35

I don't know but I think they can possibly have a case for malpractice but nothing more

Edited by trikay, 28 July 2006 - 08:08 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#39 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 28 July 2006 - 11:50 AM

View PostScottEVill, on Jul 26 2006, 04:51 PM, said:

LoTS, do you draw no distinction between criminal acts motivated by malice aforethought and criminal acts motivated by genuine cases of mental illness?

In the case of crimes against defenseless children? No, I draw no such distinction.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#40 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 28 July 2006 - 11:53 AM

View Posttrikay, on Jul 26 2006, 08:12 PM, said:

I am so glad to see someone else who feels like Rusty Yates is just as responsible for what happened to his children.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply he isn't. IMO he is very much responsible. He talked his wife into having another child even though they were warned that having another would be dangerous.

But the fact is that it was SHE who stopped taking her medication that kept her condition under control...So IMO she CHOSE to kill her kids. She knew what not taking it could result it.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Crime, Andrea Yates, Murder of Children, Not Guilty, Insanity, 2006

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users