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Discrimination Against Heterosexuals

Massachusetts Cape Code Heterosexual Discrimination 2006

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#21 Peridot

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 01:21 PM

View PostZwolf, on Jul 27 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

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Straight people say they have been taunted as "breeders."

Well... aren't we?  Everybody I know is the product of straight people breeding!  Or at least they were straight at the time.  There could be some test-tube babies in the batch that I'm not aware of, but, yup, for the most part, breeders are straights.  

Zwolf, with all respect---and after conquering considerable giggles at the rest of the post---no, the term "breeders" is not okay to throw around at people.

Slavery has been over in this country for what--143 years now?  And went on for how many years before that?  How many generations of African American women were used like cattle because they were good "breeders"? :glare:

How many Native American women had their lives blown out like candles because they were the "breeders" of the next generation?  :(

And how many women of all classes, races and colors have been asked to bear more children than they could and still keep health and life, because some man wanted them as a "breeder"?  :thumbs-down:

There's another thread right here in this forum that touches on this very subject---a woman asked to keep bearing children when there had been medical warning that there could be serious consequences.  A woman asked to keep being a "breeder" instead of a human being.  :glare:  And with absolutely tragic consequences as a result. :(

I started out my life in Iowa.  In my book, a sow is a breeder, and flinging that term at a human being is wrong, left or right, black or white, gay or straight.

It's not you I'm angry at---but I do get very angry at the misuse of that word.

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and another complained that dog feces were left next to her car.

Okay, now this one really has me confuzzled.  The sh*t's next to her car, and she's assuming this means she's being oppressed?   If I find doggie do next to my car, I assume that a dog was wandering by and chose that place to take a dump.  Now, if I found dog crap on my car, I might assume differently.  Dog crap on your car means only three things:  (1) Somebody's being hateful to you.  (2) A circus dog was wandering by and had a call of nature (because circus dogs so a lot of jumping on things, y'see), or (3) Snoopy was up in his Sopwith Camel, dog-fighting the Red Baron, and got the crap scared out of him by the Red Baron's sudden Immelmen turn-and-strafe.  If you believe this happened, then you look from the crap on your car to the sky, shake your fist, and scream, "Curse you, Red Baron!"  Followed by a frozen pizza boycott.

And what kind of chickens**t prankster would put dog crap next to their victim's car?  That's like, "Man, I hate that guy... I'm gonna key the curb he's parked next to!  That'll teach him!"   Finding crap next to your car and assuming some mean ol' hater was trying to victimize you is hardly a logical or even sane reaction...

Cheers,

Zwolf

Perhaps the prankster read Rita Mae Brown's Rubyfruit Jungle.... :angel:

Anyway...I read your post again just to get a good laugh and calm back down.  

Peridot

#22 Zwolf

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 02:57 PM

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Zwolf, with all respect---and after conquering considerable giggles at the rest of the post---no, the term "breeders" is not okay to throw around at people.

I understand what you're saying.  And I'm not really excusing the guy flinging it as an insult;  whatever the word was, he obviously meant it as an insult, so, he's a jerk for doing it and a bigot in his own right.  Calling any names sucks.

But, I'm hardwired-heterosexual, and "breeder" is not an insult I'd get so bent out of shape over that I'd run to the media to report it.  I'd've just thrown back a "Breeder?  Yeah, well, so's ya mother and father!  Unfortunately!" at the guy and let it go at that. :)  It's fairly mild as oppression goes.  

I just found the whole article to make a pretty weak case: a couple people got called some fairly mild names, one person was accused of bigotry, and somebody didn't curb their dog.  It's crazy.  It's like condemning a whole town as homophobic because a couple of jerks yelled something nasty at a gay guy.  I'm sure that's happened in my town before, but just about everybody I know here have no big issue with anyone's sexuality.  All the article proves is that there are jerks in every town, of every sexual persuasion.  But, that wouldn't fit FOX's agenda, so they grabbed it and ran with it...

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#23 BklnScott

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:57 PM

Reality. Check.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#24 Rhys

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 05:20 PM

View PostZwolf, on Jul 27 2006, 12:35 PM, said:

have hetero relations...

Which doesn't make them straight.

You said they had to "be straight at the time".

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#25 waterpanther

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 07:45 PM

Peridot, would you explain this part of your post, please?

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How many Native American women had their lives blown out like candles because they were the "breeders" of the next generation
?
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#26 MuseZack

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 08:24 PM

You mean gay people can be horrible human beings, too?  As if Ernst Rohm, Roy Cohn, and Mary Cheney hadn't proven that already.
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#27 Bobby

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 05:40 AM

View PostMuseZack, on Jul 27 2006, 08:24 PM, said:

You mean gay people can be horrible human beings, too?  As if Ernst Rohm, Roy Cohn, and Mary Cheney hadn't proven that already.

What makes Mary Cheney a horrible human being?  The fact that she's a gay Republican?  Or is it that she remained silent while her dad and Bush used an anti gay platform to get elected?

Edited by Life for Rent, 28 July 2006 - 05:40 AM.


#28 BklnScott

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 06:30 AM

View PostLife for Rent, on Jul 28 2006, 06:40 AM, said:

View PostMuseZack, on Jul 27 2006, 08:24 PM, said:

You mean gay people can be horrible human beings, too?  As if Ernst Rohm, Roy Cohn, and Mary Cheney hadn't proven that already.

What makes Mary Cheney a horrible human being?  The fact that she's a gay Republican?  Or is it that she remained silent while her dad and Bush used an anti gay platform to get elected?

6 to 5 and pick 'em, dude.

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#29 Nikcara

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 10:46 AM

View Postwaterpanther, on Jul 28 2006, 12:45 AM, said:

Peridot, would you explain this part of your post, please?

Quote

How many Native American women had their lives blown out like candles because they were the "breeders" of the next generation
?

Not that I can read minds, but I assume the refence is to the fact that the US government used to specifically attack and kill Native American women and children under the idea that if there were no women, there would be no children, and get rid of the "problem" of natives that way.  They used to wait until the men went out hunting or something before coming in and slaughtering the rest of the village so that they wouldn't have to lose as many of their own men in battle.
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#30 scherzo

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 03:29 PM

View PostScottEVill, on Jul 28 2006, 07:30 AM, said:

View PostLife for Rent, on Jul 28 2006, 06:40 AM, said:

View PostMuseZack, on Jul 27 2006, 08:24 PM, said:

You mean gay people can be horrible human beings, too?  As if Ernst Rohm, Roy Cohn, and Mary Cheney hadn't proven that already.

What makes Mary Cheney a horrible human being?  The fact that she's a gay Republican?  Or is it that she remained silent while her dad and Bush used an anti gay platform to get elected?

6 to 5 and pick 'em, dude.
Wouldn't that make EVERYONE who voted for Bush horrible human beings?  :Oo:

-scherzo
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#31 waterpanther

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 06:18 PM

No.

Fallacy of the undistributed middle.
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#32 Norville

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 07:59 PM

waterpanther said:

Well, what do they expect when they flaunt their heterosexuality in everybody's face and demand special rights?

Heh. I'm not fond of seeing people of any sexual preference pawing their partners and making out in front of me.There seems to be some need for these exhibitionistic girls to sit on their men's laps and kiss, paw, whatever. Yo, babes, keep it private. Glad you like each other, but why do *I* have to see it? :rolleyes: (Hmm. Maybe next time this happens in front of me again, I should ask to join in! :devil: )

Peridot said:

As for the term "breeder"---I've seen it used on this board, and AFAIK, the person using it was not a lesbian. And IMO, it's just as insulting to lesbians who have children as it is to straight woman who have children.

Ah. Peridot, I think I offended you in that vein at some point. I've used the term "breeder" in my life before (maybe even here). I apologize. I'd like it if some of the women who intentionally abuse me in real life because I don't have kids would think to apologize. But since they won't, I apologize for existing.

Peridot said:

In my book, a sow is a breeder, and flinging that term at a human being is wrong, left or right, black or white, gay or straight.

This is true. But if some women could stop treating themselves as if that's all they are and therefore look at me as an inhuman freak because I've chosen not to reproduce (because I know I'd be unfit beyond belief)... eh, never mind; it's not worth the effort. Sorry to have offended you. I'll shut up, because I don't want to anger you or, by extension, Anakam.

waterpanther said:

Peridot said:

Peridot, would you explain this part of your post, please?
How many Native American women had their lives blown out like candles because they were the "breeders" of the next generation?

I'm not Peridot, but it was my impression that Indian women were killed because they'd produce babies, and the kids were killed because "the only good Indian is a dead Indian" and "nits grow into lice" (meaning, this kid may look innocent, but he'll grow up to be the enemy, so kill him now... ouch). Kill the women; kill the chances for the tribe, village, etc. to continue.

Life for Rent said:

What makes Mary Cheney a horrible human being?

Mary Cheney's definitely on her father's side. I'd say that makes her loyal, not necessarily horrible.

scherzo said:

Wouldn't that make EVERYONE who voted for Bush horrible human beings?

Not interested in that argument, thanks; I know it's not true.
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#33 Bobby

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 09:42 PM

View Postscherzo, on Jul 28 2006, 03:29 PM, said:

View PostScottEVill, on Jul 28 2006, 07:30 AM, said:

View PostLife for Rent, on Jul 28 2006, 06:40 AM, said:

View PostMuseZack, on Jul 27 2006, 08:24 PM, said:

You mean gay people can be horrible human beings, too?  As if Ernst Rohm, Roy Cohn, and Mary Cheney hadn't proven that already.

What makes Mary Cheney a horrible human being?  The fact that she's a gay Republican?  Or is it that she remained silent while her dad and Bush used an anti gay platform to get elected?

6 to 5 and pick 'em, dude.
Wouldn't that make EVERYONE who voted for Bush horrible human beings?  :Oo:

-scherzo


The examples MuseZack used were of people who were/are committing homosexual acts and then turning around being part of organizations that persecuted homsexuals.  They were all hypocrites.  If some god fearing Christian voted their heart but wasn't running around committing the act then I can take that for what it's worth.  Might not like it or agree with it but I take exception with someone who sides with the people who are against us and is an active homosexual.  This is one of the reasons certain gay groups are outing people who vote against us, like that man who called the gay chatline looking for some manlove and they busted him so he resigned.

Mary Cheney can be loyal to her dad all she wants but maybe she should be more loyal to her god and stop practicing homosexuality if she thinks it's a sin.  Unless she believes she was born gay, which I think she said she thinks she was born gay in her interview with Diane Sawyer a few weeks ago when she was on PrimeTime Live discussing her book.

So she thinks was born a lesbian  and yet is trying to stop us from getting equal rights.    And she also said her dad doesn't agree with using the gay agenda to get elected.  Neither does  Laura Bush from what she said in an interview.  So even some Republicans find it tasteless.  It's just a million times worse when a lesbian is complicit by her very silence in the discrimination of other homosexuals.

#34 Peridot

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 10:02 PM

View PostZwolf, on Jul 27 2006, 08:57 PM, said:

Quote

Zwolf, with all respect---and after conquering considerable giggles at the rest of the post---no, the term "breeders" is not okay to throw around at people.

I understand what you're saying.  And I'm not really excusing the guy flinging it as an insult;  whatever the word was, he obviously meant it as an insult, so, he's a jerk for doing it and a bigot in his own right.  Calling any names sucks.

Agreed---I just don't care for name calling in the first place.  That's not to say I've never popped a label on some public figure or other when sitting around talking with friends or family, but I prefer to avoid it as much as possible.  Certainly I find it possible to speak strongly about something without utilizing name calling.

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But, I'm hardwired-heterosexual, and "breeder" is not an insult I'd get so bent out of shape over that I'd run to the media to report it.  I'd've just thrown back a "Breeder?  Yeah, well, so's ya mother and father!  Unfortunately!" at the guy and let it go at that. :)  It's fairly mild as oppression goes.

Yes, that aspect did occur to me too---that it's also a ridiculous thing to say, because the obvious comeback is the classic "So's your old man!"  And I wouldn't call it oppression at all, unless someone in the city goverment was doing it.

Anyway...that was very nice way to say "Peridot, you might be taking this too seriously..."  ;)

So I appreciate the perspective.  I guess it's just that it's a term that the negative associations resonate pretty strongly for me.

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I just found the whole article to make a pretty weak case: a couple people got called some fairly mild names, one person was accused of bigotry, and somebody didn't curb their dog.  It's crazy.  It's like condemning a whole town as homophobic because a couple of jerks yelled something nasty at a gay guy.  I'm sure that's happened in my town before, but just about everybody I know here have no big issue with anyone's sexuality.  All the article proves is that there are jerks in every town, of every sexual persuasion.  But, that wouldn't fit FOX's agenda, so they grabbed it and ran with it...

Cheers,

Zwolf

Oh, I agree totally about it being a weak case---the article could more accurately have been titled "Much Ado about Nothing".... :rolleyes:

In fact, I wouldn't even have called it hateful if the dog-doo had been on the car instead of next to it, if it was just one occurrence.

Though I must say it's pretty crappy behavior....  :whistle:

View PostNikcara, on Jul 28 2006, 04:46 PM, said:

View Postwaterpanther, on Jul 28 2006, 12:45 AM, said:

Peridot, would you explain this part of your post, please?

Quote

How many Native American women had their lives blown out like candles because they were the "breeders" of the next generation
?

Not that I can read minds, but I assume the refence is to the fact that the US government used to specifically attack and kill Native American women and children under the idea that if there were no women, there would be no children, and get rid of the "problem" of natives that way.  They used to wait until the men went out hunting or something before coming in and slaughtering the rest of the village so that they wouldn't have to lose as many of their own men in battle.

Thank you, Nikcara, that is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to, though I wasn't aware of the IMHO very cowardly tactic of waiting until the men were absent to attack.  I've just seen things here and there throughout the years that made it clear that women and and children were in some cases not just incidental casualties, but were included as definite targets.

That I consider such behavior a vile and utterly dishonorable practice doesn't quite cover it, but it will have to do.

Peridot

#35 scherzo

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 10:33 PM

So Mary's a race traitor.

She's not thinking like a good lesbian should.

Much worse than being a regular white male Republican bigot.

Got it. :humble:

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#36 Peridot

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 10:50 PM

View PostNorville, on Jul 29 2006, 01:59 AM, said:

Peridot said:

As for the term "breeder"---I've seen it used on this board, and AFAIK, the person using it was not a lesbian. And IMO, it's just as insulting to lesbians who have children as it is to straight woman who have children.

Ah. Peridot, I think I offended you in that vein at some point. I've used the term "breeder" in my life before (maybe even here). I apologize. I'd like it if some of the women who intentionally abuse me in real life because I don't have kids would think to apologize. But since they won't, I apologize for existing.
Why should you apologize for existing?  Why not start a the thread about the problem you mention, and see if some of the creative minds here at Ex Isle can give you some snappy comebacks to make use of?

Frankly, you weren't the person I was thinking of, though you may have posted on the thread I was remembering.  

Quote

Peridot said:

In my book, a sow is a breeder, and flinging that term at a human being is wrong, left or right, black or white, gay or straight.

This is true. But if some women could stop treating themselves as if that's all they are and therefore look at me as an inhuman freak because I've chosen not to reproduce (because I know I'd be unfit beyond belief)... eh, never mind; it's not worth the effort. Sorry to have offended you. I'll shut up, because I don't want to anger you or, by extension, Anakam.


Well, you haven't angered me.  I simply find your post a little...well, odd.  As in confusing.

I mean, clearly, some individuals have been sticking their nose in your business, and apparently in a hurtful way.  I'm just not clear as to the connection you see there with my objections to the term "breeder"; I certainly don't object to your right to not have children. :huh:

I mean, one of my big childhood heroes was Louisa May Alcott. :love:

And as Zwolf tactfully pointed out, I probably am taking the term more seriously than this particular case warrants; I see the term as having racist associations, among other things, but that doesn't mean those associations apply in every case.

Anyway, you can clarify or not, that's up to you.  

BTW, Anakam doesn't get miffed at everything that I get miffed at, nor vice versa.  It's quite possible that she would see the use of the term as calling for a  :rolleyes:  rather than a  glare smiley.  

Peridot

#37 Bobby

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 11:14 PM

View Postscherzo, on Jul 28 2006, 10:33 PM, said:

So Mary's a race traitor.

She's not thinking like a good lesbian should.

Much worse than being a regular white male Republican bigot.

Got it. :humble:

-scherzo

Pretty much.

#38 tvnut

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 12:51 AM

View PostLife for Rent, on Jul 28 2006, 09:14 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Jul 28 2006, 10:33 PM, said:

So Mary's a race traitor.

She's not thinking like a good lesbian should.

Much worse than being a regular white male Republican bigot.

Got it. :humble:

-scherzo

Pretty much.


Which brings us back to the beginning, that gay/lesbien people are fully capable of being horrible people.

Which brings me to another question; Is it bigotry to call/label some one a bigot?

#39 Bobby

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 01:31 AM

View Posttvnut, on Jul 29 2006, 12:51 AM, said:

View PostLife for Rent, on Jul 28 2006, 09:14 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Jul 28 2006, 10:33 PM, said:

So Mary's a race traitor.

She's not thinking like a good lesbian should.

Much worse than being a regular white male Republican bigot.

Got it. :humble:

-scherzo

Pretty much.


Which brings us back to the beginning, that gay/lesbien people are fully capable of being horrible people.

Which brings me to another question; Is it bigotry to call/label some one a bigot?


Humans are good or bad regardless of orientation.  Nobody ever denied that gay people can be bad people, it doesn't take away from any other argument just because they are.  A lot of straight people are murderers?  And  some of them are hard working decent people too.  What  being good or bad has to do with the fact a person is gay eludes me.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry


Quote

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own. The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman.

Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to his or her prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or world views.

Bolding mine.  




Now, the intolerant of opinions thing you maybe could make an argument for but when you consider it got it's start as

Quote

The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman.
  kinda puts it back in context.  

Yep, gays can be bigots too, and racist, so can straights.  Point being?

Edited by Life for Rent, 29 July 2006 - 01:40 AM.


#40 scherzo

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 03:00 AM

Quote

Which brings us back to the beginning, that gay/lesbien people are fully capable of being horrible people.
Now that it's been confirmed that for gays, being "horrible", can simply mean not lining up like obedient sheep and voting left, I'll bet "The Horribles"  number in the hundreds of thousands.(might be a good time to buy stock in tar and feathers) Mary Cheney was probably fitted for her horns and forked tail, the second she considered ANYTHING besides her sexuality worthy of consideration. In her defense, the thought police might try to remember that Kerry was opposed to gay marriage too, before they break out the torches.

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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