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What did Ulysses S. Grant do?

History-American Civil War Ulysses S. Grant 2006

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#41 FnlPrblm

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:00 AM

I'd have to debate you on that one CJ.  But that's for another thread. ;)

Crimson Av., I think first thing you should do is read up on what a "hero" exactly is.  From there, you can determine qualities which may or may not be seen in Pres. Grant (or others).

Carefully read the first paragraph and Overview on this link.  It is the very basis for which I've always been taught what a hero is.  Most people have a romanticised version of their definition.

Quote

From Wikipedia:
From the Greek cognate, in mythology and folklore, a hero (male) or heroine (female) is an eminent character archetype that quintessentially embodies key traits exalted in the originating culture. The hero commonly possesses superhuman capabilities or idealized character traits which enable him or her to perform extraordinary, beneficial deeds (i.e., "heroic deeds") that inspire fame (compare villain).

A hero usually fulfills the definitions of what is considered good and noble in the originating culture. However, in literature, particularly in tragedy, the hero may also have serious flaws which lead to a downfall, e.g. Hamlet. Such heroes are often called tragic heroes.

Also, there's the infamous joke; Who's buried in Grant's Tomb? :hehe:

Edited by FnlPrblm, 16 August 2006 - 02:14 AM.

"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: The Beryl Coronet

The Boscombe Valley Mystery: "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing." --- Ralph Waldo Emerson 'Art,' 1841

"Such welcome and unwelcome things at once, 'Tis hard to reconcile." --- Macbeth IV.III.138-9


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#42 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 06:38 AM

View PostFnlPrblm, on Aug 16 2006, 03:00 AM, said:

I'd have to debate you on that one CJ.  But that's for another thread. ;)
On Grant or Sherman? ;)
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#43 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:07 AM

"[The] attack [by Meade's Army]... was to be an attack in such overwhelming force that Lee would suffer so heavily that the Confederate Government would be unable to reinforce any other army... It was also to be a continuous attack in order to prevent Lee's army recuperating, and to impede his sneind men on furlough or to work in the fields or the workshops.... Further than this no exchange of prisoners was to take place...

Grant's grand tactics were based, therefore, on the attrition of Lee, an attrition which was to lead to such an attenuation of his strength that he would be compelled to use his entire force on the defensive; this would deny him freedom of movement, and would consequently fix him."

J.F.C. Fuller

The fixing of Lee is what enabled Sherman to march. While his army advanced the price of his mobility was paid by Meade's army. To fix a general of Lee's quality, leading an army hardened in many battles whose morale was still high with the momory of many victories, was never likely to be an easy task... There was no antithesis between the operations of Grant and Sherman, they were interdependent. So far from Sherman's movements being a means to 'overcome' the deadlock in the east, it was precisely that deadlock that made them possible.

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#44 Cardie

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:13 AM

Crimson Avenger, although Wikipedia has lots of good stuff in it, because anyone can go in and add things to its entries, it's not the sort of authoritative source a teacher will respect. So be sure to cite your facts from official encyclopedia sites.

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#45 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:23 AM

^I would suggest citing a few books or biographies too. Encyclopedias really aren’t that well respected these days by anyone in the history field.  They are just too far down the list of sources.  If you really want to impress the teacher toss in a good solid primary source like Grant’s Memoirs.  I’m finding that high schools and middle schools have abandoned them encyclopedias for history and elementary schools are trying to get away from them in most cases.
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        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#46 G-man

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:37 AM

However, getting back to Grant ...

First provide a definition of hero.  

Once you have that, you can take Grant in War and in Peace and point to those things he did that you feel were heroic.  While it is easy to focus on his Civil War days (since those were the days where he made his reputation); he did have a life outside the Civil War, and while something of a disappointment outside his army career before the Civil War, the two terms he served as President did give him another venue to shine (or not) in.

Now, how to explain why you feel he is a hero and not write a biography, what you need to do is focus on his deeds and state why you felt those deeds were particularly heroic.  Who or what was opposing him, what would be the consequence if he didn't carry those deeds through to the end, and who benefitted from his deeds.  

Oh, and as for Wikipedia, I find that is a good place to get started, but you should find other sources to get more details on the subject you're interested in.

/s/

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Edited by G-man, 16 August 2006 - 07:38 AM.

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#47 Ilphi

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 10:54 AM

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Aug 16 2006, 01:23 PM, said:

^I would suggest citing a few books or biographies too. Encyclopedias really aren’t that well respected these days by anyone in the history field.  They are just too far down the list of sources.  If you really want to impress the teacher toss in a good solid primary source like Grant’s Memoirs.  I’m finding that high schools and middle schools have abandoned them encyclopedias for history and elementary schools are trying to get away from them in most cases.

Agreed. Whenever you have any history assignment over the coming years, the best 'trump card' is actually looking at primary sources. Most students won't do that until degree level, and even then many have to be coaxed into it.

If not, I'd go to your (school?) or local library and find a proper work of history based on Grant, and just read the introduction or conclusions section. There should be a few interesting titbits in there to give you a flavour, and a quote or two (footnoted) from a well respected historian should go down very well.
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#48 Rhea

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 11:45 AM

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Aug 16 2006, 04:38 AM, said:

View PostFnlPrblm, on Aug 16 2006, 03:00 AM, said:

I'd have to debate you on that one CJ.  But that's for another thread. ;)
On Grant or Sherman? ;)

I'm betting on Sherman. ;)
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#49 Kosh

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:10 PM

Quote

Grant in many ways was not an invincible general. You simply have to look at Cold Harbor where he blundered badly. Grant attempted frontal assaults against heavily dug in defenders and suffered heavy losses for very little gain in the battle. If you want to see Grant as a human being rather than a larger than life figure I suggest reading about Cold Harbor, his failures there, and his reaction to them. The Union suffered horrible one-sided losses in the battle, morale slumped, and Grant was accused of being a blundering butcher in the North. Though the battle did accomplish the larger objective of pinning down Lee.

Cold Harbor was the name I was trying to remember earlier. iirc, when someone pointed out how badly it had gone, Grants responce was "Lick um tomorrow".
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#50 emsparks

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 02:17 PM

^^^Sorry IIRC; that was Sherman commenting on the battle of Shiloh, to which Grant said “Lick them tomorrow;” of Cold Harbor he said that “[he] was sorry that [he] ordered the last attack.”

Edited by emsparks, 16 August 2006 - 02:30 PM.

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#51 Kosh

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Posted 16 August 2006 - 03:55 PM

View Postemsparks, on Aug 16 2006, 03:17 PM, said:

^^^Sorry IIRC; that was Sherman commenting on the battle of Shiloh, to which Grant said “Lick them tomorrow;” of Cold Harbor he said that “[he] was sorry that [he] ordered the last attack.”



Could well be Sparky. Between the books and vids I've watched, plus all the histroy channel stuff, the battles tend to run together.
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#52 FnlPrblm

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Posted 17 August 2006 - 01:30 AM

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Aug 16 2006, 06:38 AM, said:

View PostFnlPrblm, on Aug 16 2006, 03:00 AM, said:

I'd have to debate you on that one CJ.  But that's for another thread. ;)
On Grant or Sherman? ;)

Sorry, Sherman.
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: The Beryl Coronet

The Boscombe Valley Mystery: "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing." --- Ralph Waldo Emerson 'Art,' 1841

"Such welcome and unwelcome things at once, 'Tis hard to reconcile." --- Macbeth IV.III.138-9


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"Once in one's life, for one mortal moment, one must make a grab for immortality; if not, one has not lived." -- Sylvester Stallone

Time to eat all your words, swallow your pride, open your eyes...Sowing the Seeds of Love - Tears4Fears



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