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Crocodile Hunter's death seen as a benefit

Media TV Crocodile Hunter Death Exploitative Documentaries

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#21 Zwolf

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:32 AM

I was never a huge Steve Irwin fan.  I liked him okay, I wish he hadn't died, but I'm not surprised by it, 'cuz he did go out of his way to get himself in trouble.  I like the guys on Jackass, too, but if they get hurt or killed I'm gonna figure the odds just caught up with 'em.

But, as into "showmanship" as Irwin was, he did honestly love the animals waaaaay more than he was "exploiting" them, and he did use the attention his antics got for the benefit of the animals - increasing conservation, saving habitats, making people interested in the critters, etc.  They were never only some threatening prop he could interact with.

So, while I don't feel a major tragedy at his death (it sucks, but the odds just caught up with him), I sure don't agree with this lady, at all.

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#22 Rhea

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 10:40 AM

View PostSpidey, on Sep 6 2006, 09:21 PM, said:

Crikey, Germaine Greer can stick it where the sun don't shine.


What Spidey said.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
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Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#23 Mark

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:45 PM

Mark: Steve Irwin loved animals so much, there were many instances where he risked his life to save them. He let his audience know about human encroachment into animal's natural habitat, and the way it was having negative consequences on the animals, and in many cases the humans too.
I never saw Steve "exploit" any animal, except maybe some of his beloved crocodiles that were being "naughty"...like the one who ate their lawnmowers, and weedeaters. I figure a little teasing of the crocs is alright, and helps keep them on their claws...like they were in the wild defending their territory.

So whatever this lady said, it was said out of ignorance, and I feel sorry for her. Whenever she spends every day of her life for 25 years trying to learn about, and help wild animals, then I may give her a listen about how Steve "exploited" animals. But until then...she can shove off.

Regarding Germaine Greer's comments....Steve would've probably said,
"Moy, isn't she a grumpy lil' beauty".  
..."Dangah, dangah, dangah"!


edited to add...Steve said that about all poisonous snakes that snapped at him. lol   ;)

Edited by Mark, 07 September 2006 - 07:06 PM.

Mark
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#24 Kosh

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 03:51 PM

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Sep 6 2006, 06:57 PM, said:

View PostKosh, on Sep 6 2006, 03:32 PM, said:

Leave the animals alone.
That is the problem.  Most people are all to willing to leave the animals alone.  So people can develop their habitats, push them aside, or otherwise threaten their existence.  It often takes people like Steve Irwin to be an advocate for the animals and remind us that they are out there.


Those who would destroy a habitat, don't care anyway, and none of the animal shows will make any difference. There is no reason to go mess with crocks and some of the most poisons snakes in the world. That's not conservation, that's making a living. I don't hold that against him or any of the others, but they aren't helping.

Anyone who is so out of touch with the world that they don't know we are destroying the rain forest, or killing baby seals, or that the Polar Bears are dieing out, they are a lost cause.

Those of us who are concerned, like you, me and the others in this thread, we are already there, we know whats going on, those that don't know by now, never will know.
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#25 Mel

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:23 PM

View PostKosh, on Sep 7 2006, 03:51 PM, said:

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Sep 6 2006, 06:57 PM, said:

View PostKosh, on Sep 6 2006, 03:32 PM, said:

Leave the animals alone.
That is the problem.  Most people are all to willing to leave the animals alone.  So people can develop their habitats, push them aside, or otherwise threaten their existence.  It often takes people like Steve Irwin to be an advocate for the animals and remind us that they are out there.


Those who would destroy a habitat, don't care anyway, and none of the animal shows will make any difference. There is no reason to go mess with crocks and some of the most poisons snakes in the world. That's not conservation, that's making a living. I don't hold that against him or any of the others, but they aren't helping.

Anyone who is so out of touch with the world that they don't know we are destroying the rain forest, or killing baby seals, or that the Polar Bears are dieing out, they are a lost cause.

Those of us who are concerned, like you, me and the others in this thread, we are already there, we know whats going on, those that don't know by now, never will know.

I would think the arguement could be made that he was catching the attention of children who might not be being raised to think of conservation or habitat destruction.   Don't count on schools to educate kids about these issues--some might, but not all do.  Mine certainly didn't.

I didn't personally watch Irwin (though I caught bits of his shows here and there), but based on what I know of his work I see value in what he did.  As someone who lost a parent at the age of eight, I question whether the value was worth the risks to him and by extension his family, but I think that he helped the animals more than he harmed or exploited them.

Edited by Mel, 07 September 2006 - 04:24 PM.


#26 szhismine

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:46 PM

Quote

Those of us who are concerned, like you, me and the others in this thread, we are already there, we know whats going on, those that don't know by now, never will know.

well said. :)
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Harry: "Well your grandmother is a Blast-Ended Skank!"
Neville: *GASP*
Hermione: "He doesn't mean it Neville, he's just testing out some wizard swears."
Harry: "I mean every word I ever say ever, because I'm Harry Potter." --'Wizard Swears', Potter Puppet Pals

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Harry: "My parents are dead, my life sucks, I can't hold down a girlfriend, and I'm surrounded by f*ck*ng goblins and sh*t all the time. I mean what the f*ck?"
Ron: "But it's magic Harry. The goblins are magical!" --'Wizard Angst', Potter Puppet Pals

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#27 Rhea

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:05 PM

View PostMel, on Sep 7 2006, 02:23 PM, said:

View PostKosh, on Sep 7 2006, 03:51 PM, said:

View PostCJ AEGIS, on Sep 6 2006, 06:57 PM, said:

View PostKosh, on Sep 6 2006, 03:32 PM, said:

Leave the animals alone.
That is the problem.  Most people are all to willing to leave the animals alone.  So people can develop their habitats, push them aside, or otherwise threaten their existence.  It often takes people like Steve Irwin to be an advocate for the animals and remind us that they are out there.


Those who would destroy a habitat, don't care anyway, and none of the animal shows will make any difference. There is no reason to go mess with crocks and some of the most poisons snakes in the world. That's not conservation, that's making a living. I don't hold that against him or any of the others, but they aren't helping.

Anyone who is so out of touch with the world that they don't know we are destroying the rain forest, or killing baby seals, or that the Polar Bears are dieing out, they are a lost cause.

Those of us who are concerned, like you, me and the others in this thread, we are already there, we know whats going on, those that don't know by now, never will know.

I would think the arguement could be made that he was catching the attention of children who might not be being raised to think of conservation or habitat destruction.   Don't count on schools to educate kids about these issues--some might, but not all do.  Mine certainly didn't.

I didn't personally watch Irwin (though I caught bits of his shows here and there), but based on what I know of his work I see value in what he did.  As someone who lost a parent at the age of eight, I question whether the value was worth the risks to him and by extension his family, but I think that he helped the animals more than he harmed or exploited them.

He certainly did. And he taught kids to be interested in, but not afraid of, exotic species and conservation while at the same time always telling them that this was something they couldn't do and explaining that he had been raised with them and knew how to handle them.

I know from my own niece and nephew when they were younger that kids loved his style (probably because in his exuberance and unpretentiousness he was like a big kid). We spent a lot of time watching his show together before they got old enough to be too busy with dates. :p
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When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#28 Mark

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 07:21 PM

View PostNonny, on Sep 6 2006, 06:24 PM, said:

View PostWhite Tiger, on Sep 6 2006, 03:40 PM, said:

...kinda weird why people give her any heed what so ever.
She is a goddess to any woman who has ever been humiliated in public over her menstrual period.  Her putdown of another guest on a talk show some years ago is legendary.  

Nonny

Mark:  Any woman who is mentally stable, mature, and self-confident could not be humiliated in public over a natural funtion of her body.

Kosh:

Quote

(Kosh @ Sep 6 2006, 03:32 PM)

Leave the animals alone.

Mark: You seem to be well informed of some of the species that mankind is forcing into extinction, Kosh. However, what you are not taking into consideration with your statement above is that in 10-20 years or less, many species will, or would be gone from our planet all together, except we have people (like Steve) concerned enough to take some of them in, and make habitat, and breeding populations for them. Even if the animals are in zoos for a while or wildlife refuge areas, at least our grandchildren will be able to see things like a tiger, polar bear, or giant panda.
Perhaps if more people were as excited as Steve was, and shouting with enthusiasm about how wonderful, and endangered some of these animals are, SOME people might hear the message long enough for it to sink into their thick skulls, and start thinking of ways they could contribute to the welfare of our planet's wildlife. Unfortunately, as it stands, many people aren't even willing to take good care of their own pets.

(gets off soapbox...  ...temporarily)  :devil:
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#29 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 08:35 PM

View PostRhea, on Sep 7 2006, 06:05 PM, said:

He certainly did. And he taught kids to be interested in, but not afraid of, exotic species and conservation while at the same time always telling them that this was something they couldn't do and explaining that he had been raised with them and knew how to handle them.

I know from my own niece and nephew when they were younger that kids loved his style (probably because in his exuberance and unpretentiousness he was like a big kid). We spent a lot of time watching his show together before they got old enough to be too busy with dates. :p
  

I caught Steve Irwin's show on AnPl every now and then and enjoy his enthusiasm for what he was doing; I can have the same joy (and that's exactly what he had--joy) for what I do and I know how it feels to do something you love.  I waited for years to be teacher and now I am one and I have that joy (and at times I'm frustrated, but that's life and living) now.  I hate he's gone.  There's so many people who were touched by his joy for wildlife and many will never know that joy, save through re-runs.  His death was so untimely and a shame.

Edited by Lost Cause, 07 September 2006 - 08:36 PM.

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#30 Kosh

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 11:47 AM

Quote

Mark: You seem to be well informed of some of the species that mankind is forcing into extinction, Kosh. However, what you are not taking into consideration with your statement above is that in 10-20 years or less, many species will, or would be gone from our planet all together, except we have people (like Steve) concerned enough to take some of them in, and make habitat, and breeding populations for them. Even if the animals are in zoos for a while or wildlife refuge areas, at least our grandchildren will be able to see things like a tiger, polar bear, or giant panda.
Perhaps if more people were as excited as Steve was, and shouting with enthusiasm about how wonderful, and endangered some of these animals are, SOME people might hear the message long enough for it to sink into their thick skulls, and start thinking of ways they could contribute to the welfare of our planet's wildlife. Unfortunately, as it stands, many people aren't even willing to take good care of their own pets.



I may be alone in this opinion, but I think animals are better off extinct then in zoos. It works well for some. but the larger animals that naturally roam vast open areas, a cage is no place for anything like that. A game preserve maybe, where they can live over a large area, but Zoos are strickly for people, I don't think most animals would like Zoos.





Quote

And he taught kids to be interested in, but not afraid of, exotic species and conservation while at the same time always telling them that this was something they couldn't do and explaining that he had been raised with them and knew how to handle them

That not being afraid of exotics is not a good thing. Kids should be afraid of Crocs and aligators and deadly poisonious snakes. It prevents them from doing stupid things like trying to pick up a snake in the back yard. No matter how often kids are warned "not to try this at home", some do anyway.


As far as his conservation work goes, I saw very little of him, and never heard him mention anything but "Cricky' that's a nice one" and going on to talk about the Snake/croc/whatever. Conservation was somehting I could have appladed, had I watched him more.
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#31 Rhea

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 01:14 PM

View PostKosh, on Sep 8 2006, 09:47 AM, said:

Quote

Mark: You seem to be well informed of some of the species that mankind is forcing into extinction, Kosh. However, what you are not taking into consideration with your statement above is that in 10-20 years or less, many species will, or would be gone from our planet all together, except we have people (like Steve) concerned enough to take some of them in, and make habitat, and breeding populations for them. Even if the animals are in zoos for a while or wildlife refuge areas, at least our grandchildren will be able to see things like a tiger, polar bear, or giant panda.
Perhaps if more people were as excited as Steve was, and shouting with enthusiasm about how wonderful, and endangered some of these animals are, SOME people might hear the message long enough for it to sink into their thick skulls, and start thinking of ways they could contribute to the welfare of our planet's wildlife. Unfortunately, as it stands, many people aren't even willing to take good care of their own pets.



I may be alone in this opinion, but I think animals are better off extinct then in zoos. It works well for some. but the larger animals that naturally roam vast open areas, a cage is no place for anything like that. A game preserve maybe, where they can live over a large area, but Zoos are strickly for people, I don't think most animals would like Zoos.





Quote

And he taught kids to be interested in, but not afraid of, exotic species and conservation while at the same time always telling them that this was something they couldn't do and explaining that he had been raised with them and knew how to handle them

That not being afraid of exotics is not a good thing. Kids should be afraid of Crocs and aligators and deadly poisonious snakes. It prevents them from doing stupid things like trying to pick up a snake in the back yard. No matter how often kids are warned "not to try this at home", some do anyway.


As far as his conservation work goes, I saw very little of him, and never heard him mention anything but "Cricky' that's a nice one" and going on to talk about the Snake/croc/whatever. Conservation was somehting I could have appladed, had I watched him more.

Some animal species would have died out long since if it weren't for zoos - the giant pandas, for instance. Zoos do important work in breeding and preserving endangered species.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
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When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#32 Kosh

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 02:49 PM

Panda is another one that doesn't do all that well in a cage. Took years for Ling Ling to raise a baby, at least I think she had one that she didn't kill.



Extinction is a natural process, and we shouldn't interfere. We have by polluting and removing rain forests and spewing CFC's and Carbon into the air, water and ground. We should step aside, and let nature take it's coarse.
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#33 szhismine

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 04:29 PM

so if a species is becoming extinct due to man made causes (as most endangered species are) we shouldn't do anything to prevent our actions from killing them? we shouldn't try to fix our mistakes? if we do nothing then more and more species will be in trouble and the eco-system will become more and more damaged.

there's nothing natural about hunting or polluting a species to death.
Neville: "My grandmother forbids me from using raunchy language."
Harry: "Well your grandmother is a Blast-Ended Skank!"
Neville: *GASP*
Hermione: "He doesn't mean it Neville, he's just testing out some wizard swears."
Harry: "I mean every word I ever say ever, because I'm Harry Potter." --'Wizard Swears', Potter Puppet Pals

Hermione: "What's your problem Harry?"
Harry: "My parents are dead, my life sucks, I can't hold down a girlfriend, and I'm surrounded by f*ck*ng goblins and sh*t all the time. I mean what the f*ck?"
Ron: "But it's magic Harry. The goblins are magical!" --'Wizard Angst', Potter Puppet Pals

Me: "It's just a matter of looking past [McKay's] arrogant exterior to see his warm, fuzzy, probably angst-filled interior."
Hawkeye: "You harperchondriac girls think everyone has an angst filled interior."

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#34 tennyson

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 05:00 PM

Quote

there's nothing natural about hunting

Well there is about hunting since it is what provides the nutrition for carnivores and a significant portion of omnivores and plenty of species have been hunted to extinction via processes that were ongoing well before humanity first picked up a tool.
As for the whole throw up our hands, we aren't part of nature and should stay away from things view I find it a false dicotomy. We are living beings and therefore a part of nature as anything else and we can't simply step away from something that we are intimitely connected to on every level. Humans now move more material ourselves on the planet than any other life-based process and to continue to maintain humanity means managing the rescource streams that allow us to be while also ensuring tht the ecology that we depend upon is maintained.
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#35 szhismine

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 06:14 PM

well what i mean about nothing natural about hunting is it's not natural for *humans* (i should've clarified there) to go out in the wilderness with a rifle for the sole purpose of killing animals for their fur/tusks. as for hunting animals for meat... unless you actually need to to survive (native american/inuit/african/aboriginal tribes), it's unnecessary.
Neville: "My grandmother forbids me from using raunchy language."
Harry: "Well your grandmother is a Blast-Ended Skank!"
Neville: *GASP*
Hermione: "He doesn't mean it Neville, he's just testing out some wizard swears."
Harry: "I mean every word I ever say ever, because I'm Harry Potter." --'Wizard Swears', Potter Puppet Pals

Hermione: "What's your problem Harry?"
Harry: "My parents are dead, my life sucks, I can't hold down a girlfriend, and I'm surrounded by f*ck*ng goblins and sh*t all the time. I mean what the f*ck?"
Ron: "But it's magic Harry. The goblins are magical!" --'Wizard Angst', Potter Puppet Pals

Me: "It's just a matter of looking past [McKay's] arrogant exterior to see his warm, fuzzy, probably angst-filled interior."
Hawkeye: "You harperchondriac girls think everyone has an angst filled interior."

"Good gods, you sniff out angst like a police dog sniffs out drugs." --Lyric (to me)

#36 Norville

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 09:43 PM

Mark said:

Any woman who is mentally stable, mature, and self-confident could not be humiliated in public over a natural funtion of her body.

Uh-huh. That's why my supposedly "sophisticated" older sister has always refused to be seen in public buying sanitary napkins, and always made sure that she had a man in her life to do it for her.

Guess what, Mark? A lot of societies teach women that they're unclean for that natural function -- and there's that wonderful quote, "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives." Gotta love the misogyny. (About the only human religion I can think of that's positive about that natural function is some form of neopaganism like feminist Wicca.) So, when a woman grows up in that hostile environment, it's kind of difficult to be self-confident about it. Nice try with the advice, though! ;)

(Huh. This thread has now taken a surprising turn from where it started. Apologies. :look: )
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#37 Nonny

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 09:58 PM

View PostMark, on Sep 7 2006, 05:21 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Sep 6 2006, 06:24 PM, said:

View PostWhite Tiger, on Sep 6 2006, 03:40 PM, said:

...kinda weird why people give her any heed what so ever.
She is a goddess to any woman who has ever been humiliated in public over her menstrual period.  Her putdown of another guest on a talk show some years ago is legendary.  

Nonny

Mark:  Any woman who is mentally stable, mature, and self-confident could not be humiliated in public over a natural funtion of her body.
I'm too tired to deal with this tonight, but I most certainly will later.
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#38 Mark

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 10:10 PM

View PostNorville, on Sep 8 2006, 09:43 PM, said:

Mark said:

Any woman who is mentally stable, mature, and self-confident could not be humiliated in public over a natural funtion of her body.

Uh-huh. That's why my supposedly "sophisticated" older sister has always refused to be seen in public buying sanitary napkins, and always made sure that she had a man in her life to do it for her.

Guess what, Mark? A lot of societies teach women that they're unclean for that natural function -- and there's that wonderful quote, "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives." Gotta love the misogyny. (About the only human religion I can think of that's positive about that natural function is some form of neopaganism like feminist Wicca.) So, when a woman grows up in that hostile environment, it's kind of difficult to be self-confident about it. Nice try with the advice, though! ;)

(Huh. This thread has now taken a surprising turn from where it started. Apologies. :look: )

Mark: It's too bad some societies, and/or religions take away a woman's self-cofidence through one means or another, where she's embarrassed about her female bodily functions. In my previous statement, I intended no disrespect towards any woman who has been abused enough to become humiliated in the ways described. It's a crime against womanity.
Mark
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#39 szhismine

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 10:36 PM

mark, perhaps if you were a woman you would understand better... :whistle:
Neville: "My grandmother forbids me from using raunchy language."
Harry: "Well your grandmother is a Blast-Ended Skank!"
Neville: *GASP*
Hermione: "He doesn't mean it Neville, he's just testing out some wizard swears."
Harry: "I mean every word I ever say ever, because I'm Harry Potter." --'Wizard Swears', Potter Puppet Pals

Hermione: "What's your problem Harry?"
Harry: "My parents are dead, my life sucks, I can't hold down a girlfriend, and I'm surrounded by f*ck*ng goblins and sh*t all the time. I mean what the f*ck?"
Ron: "But it's magic Harry. The goblins are magical!" --'Wizard Angst', Potter Puppet Pals

Me: "It's just a matter of looking past [McKay's] arrogant exterior to see his warm, fuzzy, probably angst-filled interior."
Hawkeye: "You harperchondriac girls think everyone has an angst filled interior."

"Good gods, you sniff out angst like a police dog sniffs out drugs." --Lyric (to me)

#40 Mark

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 10:48 PM

View Postszhismine, on Sep 8 2006, 10:36 PM, said:

mark, perhaps if you were a woman you would understand better... :whistle:

Mark: I can understand about a bit of embarrassment while purchasing personal items. For instance I have been embarrassed while purchasing condoms on occassion. However for a woman to become humiliated by someone about her menstrual cycle...that seems to reflect that someone is warped...either the woman being humiliated or the person doing the humiliation. I'd lean towards the later assumption, however.

You're right...I guess I'd have to be a woman to understand. Although I do want to understand, don't expect a sex change operation anytime soon.  :unsure:
Mark
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge: argument is an exchange of ignorance.
Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
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