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#41 Tricia

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 10:49 PM

View PostNorville, on Sep 8 2006, 08:43 PM, said:

Mark said:

Any woman who is mentally stable, mature, and self-confident could not be humiliated in public over a natural funtion of her body.

Uh-huh. That's why my supposedly "sophisticated" older sister has always refused to be seen in public buying sanitary napkins, and always made sure that she had a man in her life to do it for her.



While we are off topic...where'd she find men who would do that?  I've yet to meet a man who will go to the store and even enter that particular aisle let alone buy them....

That said, I have to say that while my family never discussed the natural functions before they started they always did discuss them later.  And we were raised to believe that it was a natural function  and nothing to be embarassed by.  

I guess it just depends on the environment one is raised in as to whether they were made to feel ashamed.  

And any man with half a lick of sense knew not to make the comments about a woman's mood swings and irrationality....at least not within earshot of any of us.  Believe me, they did not make that mistake twice.

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#42 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 12:07 AM

View Posttrikay, on Sep 8 2006, 10:49 PM, said:

View PostNorville, on Sep 8 2006, 08:43 PM, said:

Mark said:

Any woman who is mentally stable, mature, and self-confident could not be humiliated in public over a natural funtion of her body.

Uh-huh. That's why my supposedly "sophisticated" older sister has always refused to be seen in public buying sanitary napkins, and always made sure that she had a man in her life to do it for her.


While we are off topic...where'd she find men who would do that? I've yet to meet a man who will go to the store and even enter that particular aisle let alone buy them....

That said, I have to say that while my family never discussed the natural functions before they started they always did discuss them later. And we were raised to believe that it was a natural function and nothing to be embarassed by.

I guess it just depends on the environment one is raised in as to whether they were made to feel ashamed.

And any man with half a lick of sense knew not to make the comments about a woman's mood swings and irrationality....at least not within earshot of any of us. Believe me, they did not make that mistake twice.



Looks around nervously. . . .slowly and cautiously raises hand.

Me?

Edited by Lost Cause, 09 September 2006 - 12:08 AM.

Rose: [disgusted] Oh, look at what the cat dragged in: "The Oncoming Storm."

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#43 Mel

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 12:27 AM

View PostLost Cause, on Sep 9 2006, 12:07 AM, said:

Looks around nervously. . . .slowly and cautiously raises hand.

Me?

^^He was shy about it when we first got married, but I broke him of that.  :p  It took a little longer to teach him to find the right pads and tampons, but after seven years he's pretty much got it down now.

Seriously, either one of us will pick up my needed "supplies"--it's no big deal and we were both raised in conservative Southern Baptist homes.  Are women in Western society really still being taught to be embarrassed by their periods on religious grounds?  I thought that died out decades ago at least.

EDIT:  Talk about thread drift. . . .

Further EDIT:  I guess when I say religious ground, I guess I'm talking about the Christian churches.  I started thinking that Judiaism does have ritual uncleanliness during the menstrual cycle and I have no idea what Islam or other religions teach.  Is this a Catholic thing?  Cause I thought Southern Baptists were pretty far on the Conservative Evangelical side and I've never heard of it.

Edited by Mel, 09 September 2006 - 12:33 AM.


#44 tennyson

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 01:05 AM

It depends upon the subgroup of Islam and Judiasm. The various reform Judiasms have either deemphasized such ritual cleanliness or removed it all together while the more Orthodox including the Haisidic community have it in force. It does tend to be an area of heavy focus in Islam along with all the other states of ritual cleanliness that all sexes have to obey and only a very small sliver of groups don't have some menstration taboo.
I can't tell you about Hinduism, Buddhists, Sikhs, Parsis(Zoroastrians), and Shinto because really it has never come up before in my research but I can tell you about the ancient Middle East and Europe. In Egypt, Mesopotamia,among the Isrealites of Canaan,in Hittite Anatolia and Greece menstration was one of many things that was considered to pollute the human body and make that person unable to access the divine during that time. Other things included touching a dead body, murder, as well as various levels of what we would today call sanitary cleanliness.
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#45 Mark

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 01:18 AM

Trikay:

Quote

While we are off topic...where'd she find men who would do that? I've yet to meet a man who will go to the store and even enter that particular aisle let alone buy them....

Mark: Yep, I've been down that particular aisle, and picked up the needed supplies a few times, Trikay.   Tis no big deal for me at my age.

:whatsthat: ...Now buying condoms at my local pharmacy where all the female employees there know me (and they are all female)...that's another story entirely.  :blush:

I guess there are always a few things people can get embarrassed about when purchasing, or even seen with in public...but if anybody (especially store employees) think they're gonna humiliate me over something like, hemorrhoidal cream, or condoms... :suspect:
...All I've gotta say is, that clerk better be ready to run if he/she starts to call for a price check over the P.A. system for Preparation H, or a box of ribbed Trojans during my checkout!  ;)  (giggling)  

Okay, okay...that's enough of that.   :hehe:

I'm sure Steve Irwin had to go down that aisle a few times for Terri. There are nearly always times when the man MUST go shopping alone for the woman, and sometimes it's during that delicate time of the month.

Face a few seconds of an uncomfortable feeling in the grocery store, or a few hours with an angry woman for not going shopping for her? Where's the choice there?

Edited by Mark, 09 September 2006 - 01:28 AM.

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#46 Rhea

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 01:10 PM

View PostKosh, on Sep 8 2006, 12:49 PM, said:

Panda is another one that doesn't do all that well in a cage. Took years for Ling Ling to raise a baby, at least I think she had one that she didn't kill.


You're misinformed. It was just that they didn't have the right information on the correct conditions for breeding. That was discovered here in the states, and in China alone, the breeding program there had something like 16 babies this year!

One of the problems with near-extinct species *is* discovering the right set of conditions to breed them in captivity. Happily, that one's been solved for the giant pandas, and they're doing really well with their program in China, and there is breeding taking place outside of China as well (although there's a worldwide agreement that all the giant pandas belong to China and are on loan anywhere else they live :p).

Edited by Rhea, 09 September 2006 - 01:12 PM.

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#47 Norville

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 07:55 PM

Mark said:

You're right...I guess I'd have to be a woman to understand.

Thanks for acknowledging that. As those on LiveJournal like to say, "kthxbye." (Okay, thanks, 'bye.)

trikay said:

where'd she find men who would do that?

Our father is wonderful. :wideeyed: (He grew up around lots of women, so he's used to it.) I don't know how she managed to convince her boyfriends, but she convinced them, and convinces her husband, to buy them for her. Don't ask me how; I just know she does it.

Since I pretty much just don't give a frack, I just go out, grab what's needed, and have no guilt over it at all. Maybe because I don't relate to my "femininity," and have never felt compelled (unlike my sister) to impress men, I don't feel any need to be delicate about it. It's not like I'm screaming, "LOOK! NAPKINS!" :lol:

trikay said:

And any man with half a lick of sense knew not to make the comments about a woman's mood swings and irrationality

There have always been nasty comments to the effect of "If we had a female president, we'd have to worry every month about whether she'd hit the nuclear button." I've always wanted to reply, "Heck, with men in charge, we've had to worry every *day* about whether we'd all be nuked. Once a month doesn't sound so bad!" :devil:

Anyway. I can't remember if I've ever read Germaine Greer, which embarrasses me, since I went through such a blazingly feminist stage last decade. Is she indeed strident and whiney? The comment Rhea shared sounded off-kilter, but she may have a point about exploitation of animals. I know that my mom agrees with Greer on this; I think GG didn't need to say it quite as she did.

Irwin wasn't the only "animal exploiter" -- heck, I grew up watching "Wild Kingdom" and Jacques Cousteau; JC was often griped at for interfering with the animals too often.

Topaz said:

Most of all, he treated those animals with awe, respect and friendship.

I rarely watched him, I'll sadly admit, but he was quite a character. I heard a good bit on the radio that was played in his honor -- he got bitten by a croc he was holding, and commented something to the effect of "Oh, that was my fault; I didn't hold her tightly enough. She's not to blame at all." He may have been a big, overgrown kid, but he had good insight on animal behavior. It's a shame he died, but he was living in a way that made it likely, and it was a good life for him.
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Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#48 Tricia

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 08:29 AM

View PostNorville, on Sep 9 2006, 06:55 PM, said:

Anyway. I can't remember if I've ever read Germaine Greer, which embarrasses me, since I went through such a blazingly feminist stage last decade. Is she indeed strident and whiney? The comment Rhea shared sounded off-kilter, but she may have a point about exploitation of animals. I know that my mom agrees with Greer on this; I think GG didn't need to say it quite as she did.

I think it is the timing too.  If she had said it about him exploiting animals and he was still alive...there would be no or little problem.   But because he died and she had to throw that bit in there about 'nature's revenge".....then it became controversial and angered people. It's that respect for the family in this time issue.  

But why does she feel compelled now to say this?  If she has felt that way,all her life or even for a few years, why has she not been screaming it from the mountaintops long before now?  This is the first that I have heard her weigh in on the topic.

Quote

Topaz said:

Most of all, he treated those animals with awe, respect and friendship.

I rarely watched him, I'll sadly admit, but he was quite a character. I heard a good bit on the radio that was played in his honor -- he got bitten by a croc he was holding, and commented something to the effect of "Oh, that was my fault; I didn't hold her tightly enough. She's not to blame at all." He may have been a big, overgrown kid, but he had good insight on animal behavior. It's a shame he died, but he was living in a way that made it likely, and it was a good life for him.


I saw him mostly on chat shows and he was respectful of the animals.  And I heard him explain when they asked about getting hurt by the animals that it was usually because he made a wrong move or that it was his fault not their's for acting according to their nature and instincts.

I think there is no one who did not think that it was possible that he would die working with animals or because something went terribly wrong.  It's a possible outcome of the job....they were recently talking about that man who lived with the grizzly bears and filmed them who was also killed by them.

It's tragic but each of them got to do what they loved...and they both knew the risks.

Edited by trikay, 10 September 2006 - 08:32 AM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#49 szhismine

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 09:24 AM

Quote

There have always been nasty comments to the effect of "If we had a female president, we'd have to worry every month about whether she'd hit the nuclear button." I've always wanted to reply, "Heck, with men in charge, we've had to worry every *day* about whether we'd all be nuked. Once a month doesn't sound so bad!"

:howling:
Neville: "My grandmother forbids me from using raunchy language."
Harry: "Well your grandmother is a Blast-Ended Skank!"
Neville: *GASP*
Hermione: "He doesn't mean it Neville, he's just testing out some wizard swears."
Harry: "I mean every word I ever say ever, because I'm Harry Potter." --'Wizard Swears', Potter Puppet Pals

Hermione: "What's your problem Harry?"
Harry: "My parents are dead, my life sucks, I can't hold down a girlfriend, and I'm surrounded by f*ck*ng goblins and sh*t all the time. I mean what the f*ck?"
Ron: "But it's magic Harry. The goblins are magical!" --'Wizard Angst', Potter Puppet Pals

Me: "It's just a matter of looking past [McKay's] arrogant exterior to see his warm, fuzzy, probably angst-filled interior."
Hawkeye: "You harperchondriac girls think everyone has an angst filled interior."

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#50 Nonny

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 09:40 AM

View PostNorville, on Sep 9 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

Anyway. I can't remember if I've ever read Germaine Greer, which embarrasses me, since I went through such a blazingly feminist stage last decade. Is she indeed strident and whiney?
Not at all.  In her prime, she was the gutsiest of all the leading feminists, fearlessly taking on the nastiest of misogynists, withering them with remarks pithy, pointed and downright funny.  In her old age, she seems to have her ups and downs, but, as is true for most of us who dared to break out of prescribed female roles, she is neither strident nor whiney, nor is she shrill.

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#51 Nonny

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 09:51 AM

View Posttrikay, on Sep 10 2006, 06:29 AM, said:

I think it is the timing too.  If she had said it about him exploiting animals and he was still alive...there would be no or little problem.   But because he died and she had to throw that bit in there about 'nature's revenge".....then it became controversial and angered people. It's that respect for the family in this time issue.
Just a guess, but she might have said this before, might even have said it to a reporter, but who would have paid attention while he was still alive?  

Quote

But why does she feel compelled now to say this?  If she has felt that way,all her life or even for a few years, why has she not been screaming it from the mountaintops long before now?
Because some guy would be dismissing her as "shrill," "strident" or "whiney"?   ;)  ;)  ;)

Quote

This is the first that I have heard her weigh in on the topic.
This would be the first opportunity for such a comment to grab global attention.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#52 Tricia

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 09:58 AM

^^^

But is right to use anyone's grave to stand on and proclaim your distaste for what they do or rather did?

That's what people find distasteful about this....

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#53 FlatlandDan

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 10:18 AM

Germaine Greer is a complete fruit loop.  She teaches at the university up the road from me and I've had the "joy" of listening to her speak a couple of times.
My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

#54 Nonny

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 10:26 AM

View PostMark, on Sep 7 2006, 05:21 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Sep 6 2006, 06:24 PM, said:

View PostWhite Tiger, on Sep 6 2006, 03:40 PM, said:

...kinda weird why people give her any heed what so ever.
She is a goddess to any woman who has ever been humiliated in public over her menstrual period.  Her putdown of another guest on a talk show some years ago is legendary.  

Nonny

Mark:  Any woman who is mentally stable, mature, and self-confident could not be humiliated in public over a natural funtion of her body.
"Any woman who is mentally stable"  Sure hope this isn't a dig at the mentally disabled.  

mature  I was twelve.  

"and self-confident"  Kinda hard to achieve that in complete ignorance of your bodily functions.  

View PostMark, on Sep 8 2006, 08:48 PM, said:

View Postszhismine, on Sep 8 2006, 10:36 PM, said:

mark, perhaps if you were a woman you would understand better... :whistle:

Mark: I can understand about a bit of embarrassment while purchasing personal items. For instance I have been embarrassed while purchasing condoms on occassion.
I bet you weren't twelve.  

Quote

However for a woman to become humiliated by someone about her menstrual cycle...that seems to reflect that someone is warped...either the woman being humiliated or the person doing the humiliation. I'd lean towards the later assumption, however.
Warped?  You betcha!  The pope, the priests, the nuns, all warped, all dedicated to keeping us ignorant for the greater glory of their deity and their collection plate.  

Quote

You're right...I guess I'd have to be a woman to understand. Although I do want to understand, don't expect a sex change operation anytime soon.  :unsure:
Even if you were to take that step, you would still not experience menstruation as a child with no clue.  

However, I'm talking about more than buying sanitary napkins.  I'm talking about a supervisor sniffing the air and declaring that the technician he never speaks to directly so as to make sure she knows she is not welcome in his lab is having her period and keeps on ranting about women and his disgust.  I'm talking about a nun taking advantage of a day the boys spent with father to scream at the girls about spiritual inferiority (check out Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven to find out what that was all about).  I'm talking about men of power and influence demanding the deaths of women whose lives could be saved by ending fatal pregnancies, and calling the saving of those lives sin.  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#55 Nonny

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 10:30 AM

View PostFlatlandDan, on Sep 10 2006, 08:18 AM, said:

Germaine Greer is a complete fruit loop.  She teaches at the university up the road from me and I've had the "joy" of listening to her speak a couple of times.
I wish I had had the opportunity to hear her back in the day, before Schaflyism gutted the women's movement.  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#56 Nonny

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 10:53 AM

View PostFlatlandDan, on Sep 10 2006, 08:18 AM, said:

Germaine Greer is a complete fruit loop.  She teaches at the university up the road from me and I've had the "joy" of listening to her speak a couple of times.
If you were constantly being trashed to your face and behind your back by women who are reaping the benefits of your life's work, you'd be at risk of becoming a fruit loop too.  If it weren't for all the young American servicewomen regularly praising me and the rest of us who paved the way for them, I couldn't have achieved what stability I enjoy.  "Ma'am, your sacrifice made it possible for me to do my job" from a female marine, soldier, sailor or airman still has the power to gladden my heart, and makes up for all the "what have you done for us lately" I heard from young students when I finally had a chance to complete my BA.  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#57 Norville

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 12:48 PM

Nonny said:

as is true for most of us who dared to break out of prescribed female roles, she is neither strident nor whiney, nor is she shrill.

A woman speaking her mind can always be belittled, dismissed, and silenced with labels like "strident" and "shrill," whether it's true or not.

Nonny said:

If you were constantly being trashed to your face and behind your back by women who are reaping the benefits of your life's work, you'd be at risk of becoming a fruit loop too.

I'm inclined to agree with that. I've been trashed and betrayed by enough women *without* being some major feminist icon that I would simply prefer not to have much of anything to do with women, since it seems that the only way in which women can treat me is with intense contempt and hatred. Sometimes, no one can do contempt like a nastygirl...

Edited by Norville, 10 September 2006 - 12:51 PM.

"The dew has fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning."
- Marvin the Paranoid Android, "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/

#58 Tricia

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 02:47 PM

Feminist icon or not.....one's past actions, however beneficial to the current situation of the female of the species, do not give one the right to speak cruelly of another at their death or to dismiss other people's opinion because it does not agree with your own.

op-ed piece from an admitted admirer of Greer's.....

Quote

So why does Greer think that Irwin’s death is different from Diana’s, and that unlike her, his untimely death presents a perfect opportunity to sabotage his motives and his integrity? After all, just like the princess, the core of the issue is that here is a young man tragically leaving behind two small children who will miss out on their father’s love.

Quote

The fact that Irwin was perceived by children as Australia’s most famous environmentalist, and by the rest of the world as the hilarious, life-affirming, unashamedly non-intellectual Australian stereotype that it’s impossible not to adore, has obviously rankled deep with her. It’s truly ghastly when someone you admire – and I have long admired Germaine Greer – displays such spiteful behaviour, but all the more horrid that she chose such an unlikely subject for her target.

That is what this is truly about.  That someone who some folks have admired for her past opinions spoke in such a manner and at this time.  

And when questioned about her comments and that the majority of the people do not agree with her.....she called everyone who disagrees with her "idiots".  Not exactly a way to make people see and understand what you are trying to say.

She said what she said.  It's over and done with and her opinion has been released into the universe.  Now it's time to move on for all of us, Ms Greer included.

Edited by trikay, 10 September 2006 - 02:58 PM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#59 Rhea

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Posted 10 September 2006 - 04:00 PM

View Posttrikay, on Sep 10 2006, 12:47 PM, said:

Feminist icon or not.....one's past actions, however beneficial to the current situation of the female of the species, do not give one the right to speak cruelly of another at their death or to dismiss other people's opinion because it does not agree with your own.

op-ed piece from an admitted admirer of Greer's.....

Quote

So why does Greer think that Irwin’s death is different from Diana’s, and that unlike her, his untimely death presents a perfect opportunity to sabotage his motives and his integrity? After all, just like the princess, the core of the issue is that here is a young man tragically leaving behind two small children who will miss out on their father’s love.

Quote

The fact that Irwin was perceived by children as Australia’s most famous environmentalist, and by the rest of the world as the hilarious, life-affirming, unashamedly non-intellectual Australian stereotype that it’s impossible not to adore, has obviously rankled deep with her. It’s truly ghastly when someone you admire – and I have long admired Germaine Greer – displays such spiteful behaviour, but all the more horrid that she chose such an unlikely subject for her target.

That is what this is truly about.  That someone who some folks have admired for her past opinions spoke in such a manner and at this time.  

And when questioned about her comments and that the majority of the people do not agree with her.....she called everyone who disagrees with her "idiots".  Not exactly a way to make people see and understand what you are trying to say.

She said what she said.  It's over and done with and her opinion has been released into the universe.  Now it's time to move on for all of us, Ms Greer included.

And I'd SO love this thread to die the death it deserves.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#60 Mark

Mark
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Posted 10 September 2006 - 08:25 PM

View PostNonny, on Sep 10 2006, 10:26 AM, said:

View PostMark, on Sep 7 2006, 05:21 PM, said:

View PostNonny, on Sep 6 2006, 06:24 PM, said:

View PostWhite Tiger, on Sep 6 2006, 03:40 PM, said:

...kinda weird why people give her any heed what so ever.
She is a goddess to any woman who has ever been humiliated in public over her menstrual period.  Her putdown of another guest on a talk show some years ago is legendary.  

Nonny

Mark:  Any woman who is mentally stable, mature, and self-confident could not be humiliated in public over a natural funtion of her body.
"Any woman who is mentally stable"  Sure hope this isn't a dig at the mentally disabled.  

mature  I was twelve.  

"and self-confident"  Kinda hard to achieve that in complete ignorance of your bodily functions.  

View PostMark, on Sep 8 2006, 08:48 PM, said:

View Postszhismine, on Sep 8 2006, 10:36 PM, said:

mark, perhaps if you were a woman you would understand better... :whistle:

Mark: I can understand about a bit of embarrassment while purchasing personal items. For instance I have been embarrassed while purchasing condoms on occassion.
I bet you weren't twelve.  

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However for a woman to become humiliated by someone about her menstrual cycle...that seems to reflect that someone is warped...either the woman being humiliated or the person doing the humiliation. I'd lean towards the later assumption, however.
Warped?  You betcha!  The pope, the priests, the nuns, all warped, all dedicated to keeping us ignorant for the greater glory of their deity and their collection plate.  

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You're right...I guess I'd have to be a woman to understand. Although I do want to understand, don't expect a sex change operation anytime soon.  :unsure:
Even if you were to take that step, you would still not experience menstruation as a child with no clue.  

However, I'm talking about more than buying sanitary napkins.  I'm talking about a supervisor sniffing the air and declaring that the technician he never speaks to directly so as to make sure she knows she is not welcome in his lab is having her period and keeps on ranting about women and his disgust.  I'm talking about a nun taking advantage of a day the boys spent with father to scream at the girls about spiritual inferiority (check out Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven to find out what that was all about).  I'm talking about men of power and influence demanding the deaths of women whose lives could be saved by ending fatal pregnancies, and calling the saving of those lives sin.  

Nonny

Mark: Nonny, I don't appreciate you turning my words around and making them personal, and suddenly about you.  :dontgetit: No matter how big of a hero Greer was/is to you or anybody else, that doesn't excuse the fact that she made low class, ill-timed, out of place statements about Steve Irwin, while his family and fans were still grieving.
She was way out of line. I don't have to be a girl going through mentruation to understand that, or the kind of "up-in-yo-face" person Greer seems to be.

I'm not certain how or why you took my words personally, but I thought we were trying to discuss the way Greer put some guest down on a talk show years ago (I presumed she was doing so because somebody was "humiliating" someone or group on that show). I never intended, or wanted my part of this discussion to get personal.

Unless we can get back on the topic of Germaine Greer's ill-timed opinion about Steve in this thread, my part here is over. It's sounds like Greer made her statement only thinking of herself, and the publicity she'd get out of it. Negative publicity is still publicity...just ask Dennis Rodman, Madonna, or Terrell Owens. Many famous people have used negativity to their advantage when given an opportunity...but that doesn't make it right, especially when they're takin' pot-shots at someone who died a tragic and untimely death.
Mark
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge: argument is an exchange of ignorance.
Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
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