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Sen. Clinton seeks $1.9B for 9/11's sick

Senate Senator Clinton 2006 9/11 sick

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#21 Gabrielles Army

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 01:10 PM

View PostSpidey, on Sep 13 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

What I am saying is she is using this as a ploy to boost her political prominance.  She's not doing it out of concern for those who have become ill because of that attack and horrible event.

And if Hilary is doing it for political prominance, where is that any different than what any other politician does? And I don`t care why she is doing it, if it is the right thing to do, then it is the right thing to do no matter who suggests it or what their motives for suggesting it are. You need to look beyond this knee-jerk reaction because it is coming from Hilary Clinton and judge it on it`s own merits.

#22 enTranced

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 01:36 PM

View PostGabrielles Army, on Sep 14 2006, 06:10 PM, said:

View PostSpidey, on Sep 13 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

What I am saying is she is using this as a ploy to boost her political prominance.  She's not doing it out of concern for those who have become ill because of that attack and horrible event.

And if Hilary is doing it for political prominance, where is that any different than what any other politician does? And I don`t care why she is doing it, if it is the right thing to do, then it is the right thing to do no matter who suggests it or what their motives for suggesting it are. You need to look beyond this knee-jerk reaction because it is coming from Hilary Clinton and judge it on it`s own merits.

And that is a good idea for ANY politician's plan, not just Hillary's. Politicians are (barely :p ) human beings and like any human being have a way of surprising you and sometimes for the best.

If she gets this passed that is defenetly a big check for her plus column if she decides to make the run for President.

enTranced

Edited by enTranced, 14 September 2006 - 01:38 PM.

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#23 Rhea

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 02:15 PM

View PostenTranced, on Sep 14 2006, 11:36 AM, said:

View PostGabrielles Army, on Sep 14 2006, 06:10 PM, said:

View PostSpidey, on Sep 13 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

What I am saying is she is using this as a ploy to boost her political prominance.  She's not doing it out of concern for those who have become ill because of that attack and horrible event.

And if Hilary is doing it for political prominance, where is that any different than what any other politician does? And I don`t care why she is doing it, if it is the right thing to do, then it is the right thing to do no matter who suggests it or what their motives for suggesting it are. You need to look beyond this knee-jerk reaction because it is coming from Hilary Clinton and judge it on it`s own merits.

And that is a good idea for ANY politician's plan, not just Hillary's. Politicians are (barely :p ) human beings and like any human being have a way of surprising you and sometimes for the best.

If she gets this passed that is defenetly a big check for her plus column if she decides to make the run for President.

enTranced

And gee, a lot of people who put their lives on the line on 9/11 and after benefit. So friggin' what whether or not Hilary looks good? It's her state and her responsibility.

Edited by Rhea, 14 September 2006 - 02:16 PM.

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#24 Cait

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 02:18 PM

View Posttrikay, on Sep 14 2006, 07:12 AM, said:

And duh, she's the Senator for New York so she is only serving the people who elected her.  If they asked her to do this and she ignored it... then people would be yelling about how she was not serving the people she represents.  :rolleyes:

Bingo!!  She is the Senator from New York.  It is her job to bring this to the attention of Congress.  If she gets some attention doing her job I could care less.  I wish all politicians got their press because they did their job.  I'm not a big fan of Hillary either, but I'm not going to jump on her for doing her job for the citizens of New York.

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#25 Delvo

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 02:52 PM

We must be talking about services/compensation above and beyond what their established contracts/policies with their employers, unions, and insurers already called for, because if it were already covered, then there'd be no issue here.

There are others who faced emergencies, and in some cases tried to help others in those emergencies, and were injured and could also use services/compensation that go above and beyond what their established contracts and policies already call for, too. But they're not being given it because whatever happened to them, whatever emergencies they faced, weren't big news events. What makes those who were there on that day more deserving of the extra help than others for whom similar circumstances happened some other time and place? To give the extra help to some such people but not others is unfair preferential treatment.

#26 Zwolf

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 03:36 PM

I hate to join any kind of chorus, but ya'll can put me down as one of the "I'm no fan of Hillary's, but..." list.  I think every elected official would like to take away as many of our Constitutional rights as they could, because our rights are inconvenient to them.  But I don't see Hillary doing that in any extraordinary design.  Pointing a finger at her while we have the Bush administration smash-and-grabbing at our rights hand over fist is kinda funny to me.  With all the wire-taps and torture-prisons and corporate-welfare and all the other exceedingly un-American shenanigans (yes, I call shenanigans on them!), worrying about Hillary seems a little misplaced.  It's like having cancer but fretting over a hangnail.

As for the people with ground-zero syndrome, I'd love to see something done to help 'em.  That should be obvious from the George Tabb link I've been sporting in my sig lately.  But... where's that money going to come from?  We're already playing hoo-hah-we-got-shore-leave with our nation's cash as it is.  

This is a very worthy cause, but we need to have the money to spend the money.  Are we going to raise the taxes on the upper 2% or something "radical" like that?  Not with this administration in office, we ain't.  He's already giving extra free money to the oil companies (whose profits, oddly, went way, way, way up this year even though they haaaaad to charge us so much for gas.  Funny, ain't it?  Wonder how that worked!).

'Course, we'd have plenty if we'd been smart and stayed the hell out of Iraq, but, can't unspill the milk... or blood...

Cheers,

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#27 Rhea

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 03:52 PM

View PostDelvo, on Sep 14 2006, 12:52 PM, said:

We must be talking about services/compensation above and beyond what their established contracts/policies with their employers, unions, and insurers already called for, because if it were already covered, then there'd be no issue here.

There are others who faced emergencies, and in some cases tried to help others in those emergencies, and were injured and could also use services/compensation that go above and beyond what their established contracts and policies already call for, too. But they're not being given it because whatever happened to them, whatever emergencies they faced, weren't big news events. What makes those who were there on that day more deserving of the extra help than others for whom similar circumstances happened some other time and place? To give the extra help to some such people but not others is unfair preferential treatment.


Other people were not asked to work at a site that they were assured by the EPA was "safe," only to find out later that it was toxic. They deserve every friggin' penny they get. It wasn't you or I out there for months digging up parts of people and debris while the government went on at great length about how safe it was.

And now they're dying of diseases like pulmonary fibrosis, and let me assure you, slow death by suffocation is not a nice way to die, and that's what a lot of them have, along with a host of other lung ailments.

Edited by Rhea, 14 September 2006 - 03:53 PM.

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#28 Captain Jack

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:10 PM

http://speakout.com/...Hillary_Clinton

http://speakout.com/...H...&mMID=57006

http://speakout.com/...H...&mMID=63817 (Different Spidey)

http://speakout.com/...H...&mMID=64684

http://speakout.com/...H...&mMID=72719

http://www.alternet....n...5&pID=77774

http://www.waypath.c...aryclinton.html

http://mediamatters....ms/200605300006

http://www.blogsagainsthillary.com/

More to come...
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#29 Rhea

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:12 PM

View PostSpidey, on Sep 14 2006, 04:10 PM, said:


Find me something that's not a right-wing blog and we'll talk.

And your hard-on for Hilary Clinton is beside the point. We're talking about the workers at Ground Zero, many of whom worked for months in terrible conditions, while the bimbo from the EPA said it was safe. And it wasn't safe, and many of them are sick and dying. How can you not look at that and feel some responsibility? And what does THAT have to do with friggin' Hillary Clinton? She's only the messenger from the state of New York. It's been on the news for months. You'd have to have your head buried in a hole not to know how sick many of them are. Get a grip, man!

Edited by Rhea, 14 September 2006 - 06:17 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#30 Captain Jack

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:20 PM

View PostRhea, on Sep 14 2006, 04:12 PM, said:


Oh, believe me, I'm working on it sweetie. ;)

Quote

And your hard-on for Hilary Clinton is beside the point. We're talking about the workers at Ground Zero, many of whom worked for months in terrible conditions, while the bimbo from the EPA said it was safe. And it wasn't safe, and many of them are sick and dying. How can you not look at that and feel some responsibility. And what does THAT have to do with friggin' Hillary Clinton?

Your choice of words has much to be desired.  As I have said before, I think that it is GOOD (bolded so you can see it) to help the workers at Ground Zero.  

Friggin Hllary ain't doing it because she cares.  But obviously, you don't care about hidden agendas...
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#31 BklnScott

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:32 PM

Quote

You hate America, you hate christians, and you definetly hate the unborn. I think it's because they all have something you don't, A SOUL! FRY IN HELL HILLARRY, FRY IN HELL!

This is what you send us to in your attempt to demonstrate that Hillary is trying to "take away our constitutional rights?"

View PostSpidey, on Sep 14 2006, 07:20 PM, said:

rhea said:


Find me something that's not a right-wing blog and we'll talk.

Oh, believe me, I'm working on it sweetie. ;)

That hard, huh?  

Quote

Friggin Hllary ain't doing it because she cares.  But obviously, you don't care about hidden agendas...

What's hidden about her agenda?  And why is ambition a bad word only when it's applied to women?

Edited by ScottEVill, 14 September 2006 - 06:35 PM.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#32 Captain Jack

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:44 PM

^You picked the right handle for yourself ScottEVill...
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#33 Rhea

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 07:06 PM

For sure. He has a nasty way of forcing you to think, doesn't he? :p
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#34 Captain Jack

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 07:14 PM

ScottEVill, on Sep 14 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: ScottEVill.

Ahhh...much better,  :)
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#35 Gabrielles Army

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 07:20 PM

View PostSpidey, on Sep 14 2006, 04:10 PM, said:


Spidey instead of posting a endless number of links to useless sites that I have neither the time or interest in wading through and which seem to consist of nothing more than going on about how much they hate Hillary, why don`t you simply tell us exactly what constitutional rights you believe Hillary is trying to take away and show us exactly how she is attempting to do this.

#36 Gabrielles Army

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 07:26 PM

View PostSpidey, on Sep 14 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

[Friggin Hllary ain't doing it because she cares.  But obviously, you don't care about hidden agendas...

And again who cares why she is doing it. No matter what her motives bottom line who cares if it`s Hillary pushing for it or someone eles, either way the important thing is people get the help they need.

#37 Captain Jack

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 07:58 PM

View PostGabrielles Army, on Sep 14 2006, 05:20 PM, said:

Spidey instead of posting a endless number of links to useless sites that I have neither the time or interest in wading through and which seem to consist of nothing more than going on about how much they hate Hillary, why don`t you simply tell us exactly what constitutional rights you believe Hillary is trying to take away and show us exactly how she is attempting to do this.

Fair enough.  :cool:  For one thing, Hillary wants to abolish the 2nd Amendment.  I have a real problem with that.  I know many gun owners.  None of them are psychopathic trigger happy serial killers.  In fact, all of the ones I know, and even the ones they know (translation=majority of gun owners) are real careful with their fire arms.  Instead of getting it out of the hands of law abiding citizens, the focus should be the real probem, getting the guns out of the hands of children and gang bangers.

Mayor Bloomberg has run amok with the gun grabbing, and it was under the guise that it would lower crime in NYC.  Didn't happen.  Crime is still around.  People should have the right to defend themselves under the 2nd Amendment if they so wish.  If they choose not to own a weapon, then that too is their choice, but it shouldn't be mandated to all forcefully.  As liberal as this board is, I no doubt expect to see some major disagreement,  so be it.

There are other issues as well.  Though I don't think it would be good to go into them since this thread is about helping the sick from 9/11.  I do support that.  However, I am just saying that it would not be good to run out praising Hillary for her "good deed".  It ain't.  I guess my real problem is when politicians use situations like these to boost their approval points.  Kind of like Dubb'ya at the scene on the deck of and aircraft carrier declaring victory over terrorism.

View PostGabrielles Army, on Sep 14 2006, 05:26 PM, said:

View PostSpidey, on Sep 14 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

[Friggin Hllary ain't doing it because she cares.  But obviously, you don't care about hidden agendas...

And again who cares why she is doing it. No matter what her motives bottom line who cares if it`s Hillary pushing for it or someone eles, either way the important thing is people get the help they need.

It matters a great deal why she is doing it.  You want a person of power/influence to have at least some level of integrity.  It's an issue that is a "yes" and "no" case.  Yes, it is good that folks get the help they need.  No, it's not good to do it because you're trying to boost you popularity close to re-election.  It's something the American public need to crack down on with politicians.  People are not to be used as pawns like this.  It isn't right.
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#38 Tricia

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 08:05 PM

Spidey.....

can I ask you who you would prefer to propose this legislation?  Someone from a state other than New York?

How is there any hidden agenda when Hillary Clinton was elected to the Senate by the people of New York....and she is doing her job.  

Her job being to look after the interests of the people of the state where the majority obviously voted her into office.  People who asked for her to try to do this.

I posted  about a Congressman Jerrold Nadler who is proposing the same thing in the House of Representatives....I suppose you will say he has a hidden agenda too.

It does not matter if she really really cares or not....she is doing the  job she was hired to do!!!  Otherwise she gets fired/voted out

You hate Hillary Clinton ....we get that.  But when she is only doing her job and it is for a good cause, then why the hate-on about this?

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#39 Captain Jack

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 08:15 PM

Good question trikay.  One I sincerely wish I had a good answer for.  What I would like to see is at least a grander scale.  If she (Hillary) really wants to help "her" people, then she should also help all people.  She is Senator, not Governor.  Why hasn't the Governor made any such attempt?  NY is HIS state.  Anyway, what about New Orleans?  What about all those soldiers with Gulf War Syndrome?  She's a Senator, and hasn't been an effective voice in any of that.  Why?  Because it doesn't have anything to do with NY, perhaps.  I don't know.

She wastes no time bashing Bush (which he deserves 99.999% of the time), but offers nothing constructive.  It is easy to bash him.  But again, she's a Senator, a Senator who has put nothing constructive on the table that I know of.

Edited by Spidey, 14 September 2006 - 08:17 PM.

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#40 Rhea

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 09:07 PM

View PostSpidey, on Sep 14 2006, 06:15 PM, said:

Good question trikay.  One I sincerely wish I had a good answer for.  What I would like to see is at least a grander scale.  If she (Hillary) really wants to help "her" people, then she should also help all people.  She is Senator, not Governor.  Why hasn't the Governor made any such attempt?  NY is HIS state.  Anyway, what about New Orleans?  What about all those soldiers with Gulf War Syndrome?  She's a Senator, and hasn't been an effective voice in any of that.  Why?  Because it doesn't have anything to do with NY, perhaps.  I don't know.

She wastes no time bashing Bush (which he deserves 99.999% of the time), but offers nothing constructive.  It is easy to bash him.  But again, she's a Senator, a Senator who has put nothing constructive on the table that I know of.


I've already told you in THIS thread that the governor has already signed legislation into law that will extend workers comp for ground zero workers and make it so when they die they will consider to have been killed in the line of duty. The governor did his bit, and now Hilary's doing her bit. Where's the problem?

The issue isn't whether you hate Hilary Clinton or not (in spite of the fact that I'd bet 95% of the hate is due to her gender) - it's whether or not the workers at grround zero need to be treated decently by this country.

Plus, given your sources, I'm not sure you'd know what Hilary has or hasn't done, since the only links you provided were to right-wing blogs with hysterical prolifers screaming that Hilary is Satan incarnate. Do you know or care what her voting record actually is? Because it's out there for the world to see in black and white, and not in some hysterical, over-the-top, hate-ridden blog, either. But don't let the facts hit you in the ass on the way out.

Edited by Rhea, 14 September 2006 - 09:09 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH



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