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Now you must give any speech to Everyone? (the pope)

Religion Catholicism Pope Benedict 2006 Speech

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#1 offworlder

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 05:35 PM

so now any speech given ... is for Everyone in the whole World??
Ya just gotta watch yer mouth now no matter who or where?? (any speech is a speech to Everyone?)
This story is all over the press so pick your poison, but here's the latest:
http://www.usatoday....htm?POE=NEWISVA
First the holy father, the Pope Benedict, his most high white miterness, gives a focused speech to a focused audience in his homeland Germany on a visit, and in it makes a quote remark to support and add to the point he makes, a point you must witness the whole speech in order to understand, but since he's only talking to those people he expects they all hear the whole speech and get the whole point ..... then some muslem leader somewhere gets told about the quote by some witness, and other muslem leaders hear this gossip, then others, and more and more, and of course as each makes a statement it's 'covered' by the press because that's what they do, so it all adds up to a monstrous whole lotta decrying statements, the whole Islam world up in arms ....... and this is not the cartoon thing ...... oh no it's a new one, and more ......... USAToday even reports that the leader in Turkey gov is comparing his whiteness paterness to Hitler?? (and Pakistan congress just denounced the pope).

Is this the new entertainment now? take some quote someone said to someone else, not to you, out of context and regurgitate it with I'm Offended and Insulted, as though it was said to you, and give your insultedness to the press with putdowns on the other ......... and spin, because it's really about politics not offense ............. what is our world coming to now you cannot even give a speech to anyone without someone hearing and repeating, parts only, to others far away just so they can do their political agendizing and Decry??
So now, any speech in this new world of internet and SatPhones is a speech to Everyone?, you must write a speech, put away the points you really want to make, design it so that anyone in the whole world can hear it said in gossip and not take anything wrong, and not out of context, and not be offended?? ........ just how does anyone do that, even someone 'infallible' like his most high whiteness paternessity??
:harper:  (demonstrations in the streets are starting up again, so don't go out; and Heaven help any cars left parked, to be flamed)
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#2 Rhea

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:05 PM

View Postoffworlder, on Sep 15 2006, 03:35 PM, said:

so now any speech given ... is for Everyone in the whole World??
Ya just gotta watch yer mouth now no matter who or where?? (any speech is a speech to Everyone?)
This story is all over the press so pick your poison, but here's the latest:
http://www.usatoday....htm?POE=NEWISVA
First the holy father, the Pope Benedict, his most high white miterness, gives a focused speech to a focused audience in his homeland Germany on a visit, and in it makes a quote remark to support and add to the point he makes, a point you must witness the whole speech in order to understand, but since he's only talking to those people he expects they all hear the whole speech and get the whole point ..... then some muslem leader somewhere gets told about the quote by some witness, and other muslem leaders hear this gossip, then others, and more and more, and of course as each makes a statement it's 'covered' by the press because that's what they do, so it all adds up to a monstrous whole lotta decrying statements, the whole Islam world up in arms ....... and this is not the cartoon thing ...... oh no it's a new one, and more ......... USAToday even reports that the leader in Turkey gov is comparing his whiteness paterness to Hitler?? (and Pakistan congress just denounced the pope).

Is this the new entertainment now? take some quote someone said to someone else, not to you, out of context and regurgitate it with I'm Offended and Insulted, as though it was said to you, and give your insultedness to the press with putdowns on the other ......... and spin, because it's really about politics not offense ............. what is our world coming to now you cannot even give a speech to anyone without someone hearing and repeating, parts only, to others far away just so they can do their political agendizing and Decry??
So now, any speech in this new world of internet and SatPhones is a speech to Everyone?, you must write a speech, put away the points you really want to make, design it so that anyone in the whole world can hear it said in gossip and not take anything wrong, and not out of context, and not be offended?? ........ just how does anyone do that, even someone 'infallible' like his most high whiteness paternessity??
:harper:  (demonstrations in the streets are starting up again, so don't go out; and Heaven help any cars left parked, to be flamed)

Well, gee... we have a Pope who was a Hitler Youth and who spent most of his career in the Congregation for the Defense of the Faith or whatever they call the former Inquisition these days, and he turns around and pretty much insults every Muslim ever by insulting the very basis of their faith, and we are surprised because how come?   :hehe:

Did you actually read what he said, or are you guessing? As far as I'm concerned it's glass houses/stones time. Let me help you out with what the Pope said in a very public speech:

Quote

Benedict quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"

You are SO funny. :D Every time a Pope makes a speech in public, it's quoted all over the world the same day. And this is different exactly how? He just trashed a religion followed by a large portion of the world.

Edited by Rhea, 15 September 2006 - 06:09 PM.

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#3 MuseZack

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:12 PM

The history nerd part of me is just geeking out that we're having an international crisis over the quoting of a 15th Century Byzantine Emperor.  ;)


But as in the Danish cartoon controversy, some people aren't exactly making a case for themselves by essentially saying "Stop saying our religion is violent or things will get violent."  With how thin-skinned and perpetually aggrieved these Muslims are, you'd think they were American right wingers... :devil:
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#4 offworlder

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:39 PM

I had a laugh with this: 'we are surprised because how come?'
you make good points on his whiteness paternessity ......... so should they quietly retire him and go with a young one with more mental common sense strength? ;)
But I was really making the point of our new internet and phone world, datacomm world, anyone does or says anything, then anyone with an agenda on the hunt for 'Material' to use can just jump on it, issues and gossip go round the world in mere minutes, sat comm, sat tv, sat based press, cable, wireless .................. so you can't just talk so some someones in a group in your city, you're REALLY talking to anyone who hears, then spreads, gossips, round and round, so you must talk to Everyone in the whole World..... or ..... shut up?? (watch now, this will go round too ) :D
Touchy touchy people out there, especially the Islam and Israel types just now, no one can say a friggin thing anymore about that stuff yeah? Don't anyone one of you now, put the word Mohammed or the word Islam or muslem in your essay, or speech, or chat, listen now, don't do it (unless you're an imam or a mullah)  :harper:  
Ah the webs we weave, and how many times have I written That on here? remember when the world was a bigger place, there were phones but not the worldwide gossip, it would take at least two weeks before people spread gossip around in 1940. NO I do not remember that far back! (wasn't alive)  :p
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#5 Rhea

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 08:14 PM

View PostMuseZack, on Sep 15 2006, 04:12 PM, said:

The history nerd part of me is just geeking out that we're having an international crisis over the quoting of a 15th Century Byzantine Emperor.  ;)


But as in the Danish cartoon controversy, some people aren't exactly making a case for themselves by essentially saying "Stop saying our religion is violent or things will get violent."  With how thin-skinned and perpetually aggrieved these Muslims are, you'd think they were American right wingers... :devil:


I agree with you. But this Pope, who I have no respect for anyway, didn't exactly win the Savant of the Week award by trashing Islam entirely. He can't possibly be so stupid as to not know how that quotation would be taken by Muslims. That's a huge D'oh.

It was uncalled for and unnecessary, particularly from a man who is supposed to embody a good hunk of the Christian faith.

Can't wait to hear what he has to say about the Jews. :p Who knows what he thinks about Buddhists or Hindus? Golly gee, there's just so much trashing left to do. :D

Edited by Rhea, 16 September 2006 - 10:42 AM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:29 PM

View Postoffworlder, on Sep 15 2006, 06:35 PM, said:

Is this the new entertainment now? take some quote someone said to someone else, not to you, out of context and regurgitate it with I'm Offended and Insulted, as though it was said to you, and give your insultedness to the press with putdowns on the other

To answer your question, in a word: yes.

People just don't seem to understand: "There is no right not to be offended." What part of that they don't understand is beyond me.

As for Islamic leaders being offended: Deal with it and get over yourselves already.

As for those who claim his comments weren't appropriate; keep in mind that this is the religion that calls for the murder of any muslim who switches religions. If he decides he doesn't want to be muslim, they will try and behead him.

Yep, real friendly, non-violent, religion you boys got there.

I do find it highly amusing that while the muslim world insists, no, DEMANDS, that the rest of the world respect their religious beliefs; they don't seem to have a problem not respecting other religions.

What goes around comes around.

Personally I don't care one bit about this Pope, or the Vatican...The less I say about either the better...but in this case, I have to give the pope a thumbs up.
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#7 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:31 PM

View PostRhea, on Sep 15 2006, 09:14 PM, said:

I agree with you. But this Pope, who I have no respect for anyway, didn't exactly win the Savant of the Week award by trashing Islam entirely. He can't possibly he so stupid as to not know how that quotation would be taken by Muslims. That's a huge D'oh.

And why should he? or anyone else care about how muslims take it? They don't seem to care about how we take what they say about us and our religion.

They need to get over themselves already.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#8 Nonny

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:16 PM

View PostRhea, on Sep 15 2006, 06:14 PM, said:

He can't possibly he so stupid as to not know how that quotation would be taken by Muslims.
Can too.   :p  

Quote

Can't wait to hear what he has to say about the Jews. :p Who knows what he thinks about Buddhists or Hindus? Golly gee, there's just so much trashing left to do. :D
He warmed up on women.   :suspect:  

Have I mentioned lately that I call him Maledict DCLXVI?   :look:  

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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#9 MuseZack

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:32 PM

I'm no fan of Ratzi, but I'm a lot more offended by the petulant response and reflexive demands for apologies or else that have characterized a lot of the response to a speech that, while inartfully worded, contained some sharp observations on the nature of the friction between Western and Islamic Civilizations.  And if there's ever to be a real exchange of ideas, then there needs to be a more mature response from the Muslim world than "How dare you?!?"  If Ratzinger is wrong about the relationship of Islam and conquest, then tell us why he's wrong instead of just yelling "Hitler!  Hitler!  Hitler!"  

Especially since the current pope, for all his faults, was at the forefront of decrying the war against Iraq and the Israeli bombardment of Lebanon-- hardly the marks of a raging Islamophobe.  While decrying abuses committed by the West against Islamic peoples, I don't think it's inappropriate to also note that Islam's hands have been pretty bloody as well, from the eight hundred year assault against Eastern Christendom to the current bloodletting against the Christian minority in Indonesia's spice islands.

And it's not like the Church hasn't done a lot to own up to and apologize for the Catholic Church's violent past.   Although, since the Orthodox got their apology for the Fourth Crusade, I really think it's time to say sorry to the Cathars for the Albigensian Crusade.  Who's with me?
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#10 Anastashia

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:41 PM

Go Zack!
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#11 tennyson

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 12:20 AM

Quote

I really think it's time to say sorry to the Cathars for the Albigensian Crusade. Who's with me?

Are there any left to actually say it to?
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#12 Mark

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 12:49 AM

Offworlder:

Quote

But I was really making the point of our new internet and phone world, datacomm world, anyone does or says anything, then anyone with an agenda on the hunt for 'Material' to use can just jump on it, issues and gossip go round the world in mere minutes, sat comm, sat tv, sat based press, cable, wireless .................. so you can't just talk so some someones in a group in your city, you're REALLY talking to anyone who hears, then spreads, gossips, round and round, so you must talk to Everyone in the whole World..... or ..... shut up?? (watch now, this will go round too )
Touchy touchy people out there, especially the Islam and Israel types just now, no one can say a friggin thing anymore about that stuff yeah? Don't anyone one of you now, put the word Mohammed or the word Islam or muslem in your essay, or speech, or chat, listen now, don't do it (unless you're an imam or a mullah)


MuseZack:

Quote

I'm no fan of Ratzi, but I'm a lot more offended by the petulant response and reflexive demands for apologies or else that have characterized a lot of the response to a speech that, while inartfully worded, contained some sharp observations on the nature of the friction between Western and Islamic Civilizations. And if there's ever to be a real exchange of ideas, then there needs to be a more mature response from the Muslim world than "How dare you?!?" If Ratzinger is wrong about the relationship of Islam and conquest, then tell us why he's wrong instead of just yelling "Hitler! Hitler! Hitler!"


Mark: (picks up computer moniter, shakes it violently, screams, and becomes red-faced)  :devil1:
Internet Jihad! Internet Jihad!  :p

Q: How do you get a Muslim to change his mind?
A: Grab the end of his turban, and pull really hard?

Does anybody know any good jokes about Christians?
For that matter does anybody know any good jokes about Islam?
I really want to be fair with my Internet Jihad.  :upside:

Okay...I found this joke, although there is really nothing Christian about it. Tee-hee :whistle:

Three Wise men were going to heaven, but before that, they each had to answer a question from God. The first Wise Man came up and God asked him, "Who was the first man on earth?" He answered Adam and was let in. The second Wise Man came up and God asked him, "Who was the first women on earth?" He answered Eve and was let in. The thrid Wise Man came up and God asked, "What was the first thing Eve said to Adam?" He thought for a moment, "Hmm, that's a hard one..." And God said, you may be let into Heaven.

Did I tell ya'll it's Friday night...or rather, Saturday morning, and I've got too much time on my hands?
Have I stuck my foot far enough into my mouth for everyone's amusement?  :wideeyed:

Edited by Mark, 16 September 2006 - 01:11 AM.

Mark
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#13 Nonny

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 09:43 AM

About Ratzinger's Hitler youth: he could have said no.  Others did, and they died, of course.  Given the Catholic affection for martyrdom, if he is sincere in his disavowal of Hitler, he might consider beatification for the Swing Kids, the White Rose kids, and the others who gave their lives rather than give in.  

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

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All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#14 Nonny

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 09:47 AM

View PostMark, on Sep 15 2006, 10:49 PM, said:

Does anybody know any good jokes about Christians?
Here's my favorite Catholic schoolkid joke:

What's the pope's phone number?  
Et cum spiri 2-2-0.  

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Um, gets lost in the xlation.   :blush:

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#15 Rhys

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:11 AM

So, a Catholic priest and a rabbi end up sitting together on a plane.  Since their books, MP3 players, laptops, etc. weren't allowed in the cabin by security, they strike up a conversation.  The priest asks the rabbi, "Is it true that your religion prohibits you from eating pork?"

"That's true," says the rabbi. "Pork is not kosher."

"Have you ever wondered what it tastes like?  In fact, have you ever given in to temptation and tried it?"

"Yes," says the rabbi.  "I did taste it once."

There's a brief pause in the conversation as both consider this, and the rabbi speaks up again.

"Tell me, my friend:  Is it true that your religion forbids sexual relations to your priests?"

"Yes," says the priest, "as we are to consider ourselves married to the church."

"So," says the rabbi, "have you ever wondered what it is like?  Have you ever given in to temptation?"

"I must admit," says the priest, "that I did give into temptation once."

"A lot better than pork, isn't it?"

:lol:

Rhys
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#16 ilexx

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:40 AM

View PostMuseZack, on Sep 16 2006, 06:32 AM, said:

I'm no fan of Ratzi, but I'm a lot more offended by the petulant response and reflexive demands for apologies or else that have characterized a lot of the response to a speech that, while inartfully worded, contained some sharp observations on the nature of the friction between Western and Islamic Civilizations.  And if there's ever to be a real exchange of ideas, then there needs to be a more mature response from the Muslim world than "How dare you?!?"  If Ratzinger is wrong about the relationship of Islam and conquest, then tell us why he's wrong instead of just yelling "Hitler!  Hitler!  Hitler!"  

Especially since the current pope, for all his faults, was at the forefront of decrying the war against Iraq and the Israeli bombardment of Lebanon-- hardly the marks of a raging Islamophobe.  While decrying abuses committed by the West against Islamic peoples, I don't think it's inappropriate to also note that Islam's hands have been pretty bloody as well, from the eight hundred year assault against Eastern Christendom to the current bloodletting against the Christian minority in Indonesia's spice islands.

And it's not like the Church hasn't done a lot to own up to and apologize for the Catholic Church's violent past.   Although, since the Orthodox got their apology for the Fourth Crusade, I really think it's time to say sorry to the Cathars for the Albigensian Crusade.  Who's with me?

Me, Sir, me! Please count me in!

Listen to Zack, people! Listen to him!

#17 Rhea

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:43 AM

View PostNonny, on Sep 15 2006, 09:16 PM, said:

View PostRhea, on Sep 15 2006, 06:14 PM, said:

He can't possibly he so stupid as to not know how that quotation would be taken by Muslims.
Can too.   :p  

Quote

Can't wait to hear what he has to say about the Jews. :p Who knows what he thinks about Buddhists or Hindus? Golly gee, there's just so much trashing left to do. :D
He warmed up on women.   :suspect:  

Have I mentioned lately that I call him Maledict DCLXVI?   :look:  

Nonny


LOL! At least nobody's burned any of us at the stake lately. I can put up with the typical church sexism.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#18 ilexx

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:53 AM

View PostNonny, on Sep 16 2006, 04:43 PM, said:

About Ratzinger's Hitler youth: he could have said no.  Others did, and they died, of course.  Given the Catholic affection for martyrdom, if he is sincere in his disavowal of Hitler, he might consider beatification for the Swing Kids, the White Rose kids, and the others who gave their lives rather than give in.  

Nonny

Ratzinger's parents could - and should - have said no. The Hitler Youth were the Nazi equivalent of the boy scouts. They were children, it was up to their parents whether they joined or not. If the parents said yes, the children had no means to refuse.

No one German kid ever died because of not joining the Hitler Jugend or the BDM (its counterpart for girls).

The Weiße Rose was a students' organisation. And yes, the Scholls should be considered for beatification. It would be a proper statement from a German pope.

However, with things being the way they are (to this day, former SS members are paid pensions by the state, yet the debate over a pardon for the deserters from the German Army during WW II goes on and on and on... ), I have my doubts about it.

#19 Hibblette

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 10:54 AM

View PostMuseZack, on Sep 15 2006, 06:12 PM, said:

The history nerd part of me is just geeking out that we're having an international crisis over the quoting of a 15th Century Byzantine Emperor.  ;)


But as in the Danish cartoon controversy, some people aren't exactly making a case for themselves by essentially saying "Stop saying our religion is violent or things will get violent."  With how thin-skinned and perpetually aggrieved these Muslims are, you'd think they were American right wingers... :devil:

:howling:

Yep the history nerd that I am-I'm going, isn't that interesting and...

Folks he's quoting...So we can't quote anything from anyone anymore?
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#20 DWF

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 11:06 AM

Well this appears to be one battle of Islam and Christanity one that's bee brewing for a while and the Islamist extremists didn't help matters with 9/11, wrongly worded on the Pope's part but not unexpected.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Religion, Catholicism, Pope Benedict, 2006, Speech

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