80 replies to this topic

[Rhea]

http://news.yahoo.co...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

They may be hard to enforce.

One interesting comment:

Quote

The U.S. ambassador said North Korea's apparent nuclear test "had to have been humiliating to China. After all of the efforts they've made over the years to protect North Korea from international approbation, for the North Koreans in the face of all that to test had to get quite a reaction in Beijing. And I think we're still seeing that play out."

China reiterated it would not conduct any inspections and called for caution.

"China strongly urges the countries concerned to adopt a prudent and responsible attitude in this regard and refrain from taking any provocative steps that may intensify the tensions," China's U.N. Ambassador Wang Guangya said.

The Security Council condemned the nuclear test that North Korea said it conducted Oct. 9. It demanded that North Korea immediately return to six-nation talks aimed at persuading Pyongyang to dismantle its weapons program without precondition.

[Lord of the Sword]

So basically what the US got was a worthless piece of paper that says what it wants, but has no power, or teeth, whatsoever.

China, despite signing it, has already stated that they aren't going to enforce it. So what was the point of them signing in the first place?

And according to the resolution, the use of force to enforce the sanctions is prohibited. So the N. Korean ship that is leaving, or entering, N korea will be greeted by other nation's ships, and those nations will just be able to yell "Stop! Stop I say!" And when the N. Koreans give us the middle finger, we'll just have to accept it. It's like telling a criminal "the cops won't use force to stop you from committing crimes."

What a waste of time and energy this was.

[Delvo]

Yay for diplomacy!

[Godeskian]

LORD of the SWORD, on Oct 15 2006, 04:22 PM, said:

So basically what the US got was a worthless piece of paper that says what it wants, but has no power, or teeth, whatsoever.

That seems to be about the size of it.

Guess it's time for some of that world famous american unilateral action then eh?

[The Oncoming Storm]

Let's just face it, when it comes to such a this, the U.N. is pretty worthless.  In other areas, such as the WHO, it succeeds.  But, in diplomacy, what can the U.N. do when certain involved parties don't want to either play by the agreed rules or not help enforce sanctions.  This is par for the course for the League of Nations.  Ooops!    Did I say that?  

[Lord of the Sword]

Godeskian, on Oct 15 2006, 01:46 PM, said:

That seems to be about the size of it.

Guess it's time for some of that world famous american unilateral action then eh?

It might be, I don't see anything else working, do you? N. Korea has already said that if sanctions are imposed they will consider it an act of war and respond in kind. So it really doesn't look like anything else is going to work...Especially given the fact that China is not going to enforce the sanctions.

Given that, what course of action would you suggest?

[szhismine]

[offworlder]

then why don't we just sit down with China, I believe Rice met with them in Wash but is also going over to Beijing this upcoming week: and tell them, 'alright, you do this, decide what tough moves needs be and you square up IL of NKorea, you handle this ... what are YOU gonna do?' In other words, publicly (that face thing again) make this an Asia issue and China liking to be the Nr One of Asia must step to the fore and be responsible, and Asia balance and security vs. NKorea becomes Nr One thing on China's plate with all Asia and the whole world watching.   (and then China Sr VP goes over to Soeul and Tokyo and Manila once a month and tells them face to face what they are doing and how they can guarantee or come close to it, security in Asia)

[Godeskian]

LORD of the SWORD, on Oct 15 2006, 06:10 PM, said:

It might be, I don't see anything else working, do you?

I don't see any sort of physical attack work either to be honest. Any attack against North Korea either has to be powerfull enough to destroy all it's offensive armaments, including that mass of weapons pointed at South Korea, or the attack will simply prompt them to fire their own weapons.

And I've already explained the problems of launching the kind of attack needed to reduce every piece of NK armament to rubble.

Quote

Given that, what course of action would you suggest?

Me? I'd do nothing.

Leaders in the world today need to know and learn how to deal with the fact that more and more nations will become nuclear-capable, rather than spending their efforts trying to prevent it, because it can't be done. Anyone who thinks it can is kidding themselves.

Of course, I'm not in charge of nations. My perspective as an individual is no doubt different from those who have such weighty burdens.

[JamesValEson]

Yep, just chalk another one up on the list of things the UN has botched up. Maybe now that they're getting someone new at the toip, things may get going, but I doubt it.

Barry

[DWF]

Well I'm glad they closed the barn after the horse has already left.  

[Rhea]

China has changed its mind and is inspecting cargo after all

http://news.yahoo.co...mlsBHNlYwN0bg--

Quote

North Korea appeared to slip further into isolation on Monday, as China — under intense pressure to enforce new U.N. sanctions — inspected cargo trucks bound for its communist ally and stepped up construction of a border fence.

[Han]

Also..

China builds fence

Quote

Reporters who visited the border area in the past week saw about 1,600 feet of newly erected barbed wire fence north of Dandong, mainly along river banks and occasionally broken up by mountain areas or military guard posts.

A duck farmer in Hushan, who would only give his surname Han, said that soldiers began putting up the fence near his farm on Oct. 9 — the same day that North Korea claims to have carried out an underground nuclear test.

Also, while China expressed reservations about the cargo inspections, it did not say it wasn't going to allow other countries to do them.  So South Koreans, Japanese, Americans, etc. can check the sea cargo while China will inspect land transportations.
They only cautioned that the inspections should be done in a manner so as not to stoke tensions leading to military confrontation.

[The Oncoming Storm]

^I think Kim Jong Il would take a sneeze as a military threat.  He doesn't really care what does or doesn't constitute a military threat.  The NK gov't has already stated they see sanctions as an attack against them.  KJI isn't playing by sane, normalized rules of logic; he's off in his own little world when it comes to stuff like this.

[SparkyCola]

^ Only because he's lonely....so lonely....



Sparky

[The Oncoming Storm]

^Not from what I've heard about these girls in the "Sunshine" Choir (I think it's called) .

Edited by Lost Cause, 16 October 2006 - 07:20 PM.

[G1223]

Oh Fearless Leader really does not care what the world says he will do what he pleases as no one can stop him. The Chinese tried with his dad and that got their agents killed.

Till he's vaporized and sadly along with at least a huge part of his people he will not stop what he is doing.

After all Diplomacy works only when both sides actually give something up. Kim has nickle and dimed till he has the bomb and what can you do to make him stop. Use Force? Not the Useless Nations.  They cannot figure out how many mass graves count as a single count of genocide.

[CJ AEGIS]

Godeskian, on Oct 15 2006, 01:46 PM, said:

Guess it's time for some of that world famous american unilateral action then eh?

Considering Japan is likely to sign onto anything we do to stop North Korea we are hardly being unilateral.  You are talking about the third larges economy in the world there and a major regional power.

If China doesn’t hold up their end of the deal in terms of regulating the land borders than our best recourse is to slap a naval blockade on North Korea.  Hopefully the Chinese will then be smart enough to still refuse to fuel Kim with nuclear components and missiles.  The one area that China has no chance of challenging us is on the sea (they know it too) and we should take advantage of that if it comes down to that point.

[G1223]

CJ the illegal goods will filter in via China. This mess basiclly came around from Dumbplomacy and never making the terms  "Give us the reactor"

[Kosh]

We aren't going to do anything, we are we already fighting on two fronts, and KJI knows this. Even the USA and some allies couldn't sucsesfully fight on three fronts.