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Enemy propaganda now the unvarnished truth?

Media 2006 Enemy Propaganda CNN

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#1 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 08:09 AM

Disturbing debate I hope stays at a boil.
Clipping from something that frames the argument:
CNN's decision to air a video that shows an Islamic sniper shooting an American soldier in the head.
CNN Baghdad correspondent Michael Ware received the video after communicating through intermediaries with Ibrahim Shammari, a spokesman for the Islamic Army. CNN, after "intense editorial debate" elected to air the footage, though it blacked out the moment that the bullet hit the American's head. House Armed Services committee chairman Duncan Hunter said CNN has become "the publicist for an enemy propaganda film" and called for the defense department to pull all CNN embedded reporters from Iraq. White House press secretary Tony Snow said the insurgents were hoping to "break the will of the American people" by giving the video to CNN. But CNN said its decision to air the video was part of its commitment "to present the unvarnished truth as best we can." What say you?

I'm reminded of CNN's chief news executive, Eason Jordan admitted covering up knowledge of the brutality and atrocities committed by Saddam's government in exchange for permission to stay and "report" on Iraq.

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#2 G1223

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 08:20 AM

Now now now  you must understand that CNN is not working with terrorists they simply want to pass along unbaised reporting of the facts as they make them up.
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#3 Godeskian

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 08:22 AM

the dead soldier is not a 'made up fact' G.

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#4 Spectacles

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 08:47 AM

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White House press secretary Tony Snow said the insurgents were hoping to "break the will of the American people" by giving the video to CNN.

Well, that seems a bit of an overstatement. How does he think the American people figure that almost 3000 troops have died in Iraq--spontaneous combustion?

When we were in Vietnam, the nightly news showed footage of bleeding, wounded boys loaded into helicopters--because that's what was happening. Was it Viet Cong propaganda to show the reality of war?

I'm kind of iffy about showing footage obtained from insurgents, however. Though no one seemed to mind when CNN showed the hilarious footage of Zarqawi's gun jamming. He looked like Borat.

I guess it depends on what the image is. No one wants to see a snuff film, unless there's something wrong with them. On that basis alone, I think CNN should either not have shown this or even more severely edited it. But on the other hand, that's what is happening over there and I almost feel silly preferring that it not be shown.

So count me in the wishy-washy-about-this column.
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#5 Zwolf

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 09:43 AM

I haven't watched the video, because my computer is video-challenged, and I've seen a lot of war footage already that's likely more graphic than that.  But from what I've read on soldier blogs, some of them are pissed at CNN, but most of them are glad this video is airing, because America's not being show much footage of the trouble they're actually facing over there.  Too often over here we just get numbers.  The video brings home the fact that, yes, soldiers are actually being killed, and it's ugly - not a nice, neat click of a digit, but a death.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to be "enemy propaganda."   If anything, it makes me hate the insurgents more, because you have a concrete example of them killing one of our troops.  It hardly makes the enemy sympathetic; instead, it makes our troops sympathetic because we see what they're going through.   I don't think it's demoralizing to show the reality of what's actually happening. Seeing what they're going through should help people understand the troop's point of view regarding the war.

The debate of showing such things has been going on since our dead were shown inJohn Huston's "Battle of San Pietro" documentary in 1945.  The Army originally hated Huston for it, but when they saw the response to the film, they eventually made him an honorary major.

O' course, I hope a different fate happened to the insurgent who shot the sniper video.  I hope they had to pry the tape out of his cold, dead fingers...

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#6 MuseZack

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 10:14 AM

Anyone with an Internet connection can access video far more graphic than what CNN aired.  Once again, the right wing prefers that we all close our eyes, cover our ears and bellow "Mary had a little lamb" at the top of our lungs rather than see anything that might upset us-- like the very newsworthy fact that Islamic insurgents are videotaping their attacks on American soldiers and using them for propaganda purposes.
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#7 Rhea

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 11:08 AM

What Zack and Specs said. OTOH, airing this crap may encourage the terrorists to make more of these videos.

Edited by Rhea, 25 October 2006 - 11:24 AM.

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#8 Zwolf

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 11:44 AM

What's interesting is that they condemn CNN for airing stuff like this, claiming it's aiding the enemy, while the GOP has been running ads of its own which aren't all that far removed from it, and actually aid the terrorists more.  The sniper footage shows us what are troops are facing, but the GOP advertisement is trying to instill fear in the public... which is what terrorists want to do... hence the word "terror-ist."  I'm not saying the GOP are terrorists, by any means, but I don't know why one thing is controversial to them when something more conducive to the enemy's goals isn't.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
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#9 Nonny

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 11:56 AM

Meanwhile, the ones who make it back maimed and otherwise disabled have to deal with an underfunded VAMC system.  In order to maintain a facade of support, the administration switched from making the newly disabled veterans wait six to twelve months for their fist appointment to cutting services to us older veterans.  WWII vets are hardest hit, and, while being touted as the "Greatest Generation" are starting to feel the betrayal.  

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#10 MuseZack

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 11:57 AM

View PostZwolf, on Oct 25 2006, 04:44 PM, said:

What's interesting is that they condemn CNN for airing stuff like this, claiming it's aiding the enemy, while the GOP has been running ads of its own which aren't all that far removed from it, and actually aid the terrorists more.  The sniper footage shows us what are troops are facing, but the GOP advertisement is trying to instill fear in the public... which is what terrorists want to do... hence the word "terror-ist."  I'm not saying the GOP are terrorists, by any means, but I don't know why one thing is controversial to them when something more conducive to the enemy's goals isn't.

Cheers,

Zwolf


Marc Lynch, an academic who analyzes the Arabic-language media, commented that the RNC ad is indistinguishable in form and content to the videos you'd find on a jihadi website-- except Al Qaeda has better production values:

"So what to make of the fact that the Republican National Committee has produced its own al-Qaeda video. This is not just a video which suggests that Republicans will be better at fighting terror.  It actually very closely resembles real al-Qaeda videos.  It has the same tempo, the same images,  the same juxtaposition of translated statements by al-Qaeda's leaders with glorified portrayals of powerful fighters waging jihad.   The images don't just resemble those used in al-Qaeda videos:  many were actually taken from real al-Qaeda videos, and you can still see the al-Sahab label faintly in the  background (do you suppose that the RNC paid royalties?).  A political ad?  This video would not look out of place on a jihadi forum, and it wouldn't surprise me if it actually gets posted on them and admired (although the production values are a bit low for an actual al-Sahab product).

Anyone involved in analyzing or combating al-Qaeda's media strategies has to be astounded that the Republican National Committee has financed, produced, distributed on the internet, and aired on US television what is for all intents and purposes an al-Qaeda recruitment video.   The video, if it works as intended, will frighten the American people and influence American politics... just like al-Qaeda's own videos.   Bin Laden couldn't be prouder, or more grateful, especially since it didn't cost him a thing.

The Arab media has already noticed this bizarre turn of events.  Al-Arabiya describes bin Laden and Zawahiri as "stars" of the Republican campaign.  A Jordanian columnist marvels that the Republicans are copying al-Qaeda's use of videos to spread terror in pursuit of their political interests.   I used to be disgusted... but now I'm just amused.   Mostly.   But I'm sure that the army of conservative politicians and pundits who have denounced al-Jazeera and the Arab media and the "MSM" for giving air time to al-Qaeda videos will be able to muster more outrage."

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#11 Nonny

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 11:59 AM

View PostZwolf, on Oct 25 2006, 09:44 AM, said:

The sniper footage shows us what are troops are facing, but the GOP advertisement is trying to instill fear in the public... which is what terrorists want to do... hence the word "terror-ist."  I'm not saying the GOP are terrorists, by any means, but I don't know why one thing is controversial to them when something more conducive to the enemy's goals isn't.
Depends who's profiting.   :angry:

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#12 Zwolf

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 12:00 PM

Quote

Meanwhile, the ones who make it back maimed and otherwise disabled have to deal with an underfunded VAMC system. In order to maintain a facade of support, the administration switched from making the newly disabled veterans wait six to twelve months for their fist appointment to cutting services to us older veterans. WWII vets are hardest hit, and, while being touted as the "Greatest Generation" are starting to feel the betrayal.

That hasn't gone unnoticed, either.  And it just might hurt 'em, 'cuz there's a clear deliniation there.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#13 Nonny

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 12:02 PM

View PostMuseZack, on Oct 25 2006, 09:57 AM, said:

View PostZwolf, on Oct 25 2006, 04:44 PM, said:

What's interesting is that they condemn CNN for airing stuff like this, claiming it's aiding the enemy, while the GOP has been running ads of its own which aren't all that far removed from it, and actually aid the terrorists more.  The sniper footage shows us what are troops are facing, but the GOP advertisement is trying to instill fear in the public... which is what terrorists want to do... hence the word "terror-ist."  I'm not saying the GOP are terrorists, by any means, but I don't know why one thing is controversial to them when something more conducive to the enemy's goals isn't.

Cheers,

Zwolf


Marc Lynch, an academic who analyzes the Arabic-language media, commented that the RNC ad is indistinguishable in form and content to the videos you'd find on a jihadi website-- except Al Qaeda has better production values:

"So what to make of the fact that the Republican National Committee has produced its own al-Qaeda video. This is not just a video which suggests that Republicans will be better at fighting terror.  It actually very closely resembles real al-Qaeda videos.  It has the same tempo, the same images,  the same juxtaposition of translated statements by al-Qaeda's leaders with glorified portrayals of powerful fighters waging jihad.   The images don't just resemble those used in al-Qaeda videos:  many were actually taken from real al-Qaeda videos, and you can still see the al-Sahab label faintly in the  background (do you suppose that the RNC paid royalties?).  A political ad?  This video would not look out of place on a jihadi forum, and it wouldn't surprise me if it actually gets posted on them and admired (although the production values are a bit low for an actual al-Sahab product).

Anyone involved in analyzing or combating al-Qaeda's media strategies has to be astounded that the Republican National Committee has financed, produced, distributed on the internet, and aired on US television what is for all intents and purposes an al-Qaeda recruitment video.   The video, if it works as intended, will frighten the American people and influence American politics... just like al-Qaeda's own videos.   Bin Laden couldn't be prouder, or more grateful, especially since it didn't cost him a thing.

The Arab media has already noticed this bizarre turn of events.  Al-Arabiya describes bin Laden and Zawahiri as "stars" of the Republican campaign.  A Jordanian columnist marvels that the Republicans are copying al-Qaeda's use of videos to spread terror in pursuit of their political interests.   I used to be disgusted... but now I'm just amused.   Mostly.   But I'm sure that the army of conservative politicians and pundits who have denounced al-Jazeera and the Arab media and the "MSM" for giving air time to al-Qaeda videos will be able to muster more outrage."

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:eek4:   Wha?
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#14 G1223

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 01:02 PM

View PostGodeskian, on Oct 25 2006, 09:22 AM, said:

the dead soldier is not a 'made up fact' G.


No it's not but CNN playing with terrorists should not be a big shock after all they helped send one of Saddam's son in laws that fled the couuntry back into the hands of the two sons. At least they felt a need to alert the King of Jordan that he was also on the list of those to be killed.

CNN is willing to be used by any forgien government as a way to get their'truth' out there. Unless they are a Republican President and then they link arms with the rest and spin and spool the news however helps the democrats.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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#15 G1223

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 01:04 PM

View PostMuseZack, on Oct 25 2006, 12:57 PM, said:

View PostZwolf, on Oct 25 2006, 04:44 PM, said:

What's interesting is that they condemn CNN for airing stuff like this, claiming it's aiding the enemy, while the GOP has been running ads of its own which aren't all that far removed from it, and actually aid the terrorists more.  The sniper footage shows us what are troops are facing, but the GOP advertisement is trying to instill fear in the public... which is what terrorists want to do... hence the word "terror-ist."  I'm not saying the GOP are terrorists, by any means, but I don't know why one thing is controversial to them when something more conducive to the enemy's goals isn't.

Cheers,

Zwolf


Marc Lynch, an academic who analyzes the Arabic-language media, commented that the RNC ad is indistinguishable in form and content to the videos you'd find on a jihadi website-- except Al Qaeda has better production values:

"So what to make of the fact that the Republican National Committee has produced its own al-Qaeda video. This is not just a video which suggests that Republicans will be better at fighting terror.  It actually very closely resembles real al-Qaeda videos.  It has the same tempo, the same images,  the same juxtaposition of translated statements by al-Qaeda's leaders with glorified portrayals of powerful fighters waging jihad.   The images don't just resemble those used in al-Qaeda videos:  many were actually taken from real al-Qaeda videos, and you can still see the al-Sahab label faintly in the  background (do you suppose that the RNC paid royalties?).  A political ad?  This video would not look out of place on a jihadi forum, and it wouldn't surprise me if it actually gets posted on them and admired (although the production values are a bit low for an actual al-Sahab product).

Anyone involved in analyzing or combating al-Qaeda's media strategies has to be astounded that the Republican National Committee has financed, produced, distributed on the internet, and aired on US television what is for all intents and purposes an al-Qaeda recruitment video.   The video, if it works as intended, will frighten the American people and influence American politics... just like al-Qaeda's own videos.   Bin Laden couldn't be prouder, or more grateful, especially since it didn't cost him a thing.

The Arab media has already noticed this bizarre turn of events.  Al-Arabiya describes bin Laden and Zawahiri as "stars" of the Republican campaign.  A Jordanian columnist marvels that the Republicans are copying al-Qaeda's use of videos to spread terror in pursuit of their political interests.   I used to be disgusted... but now I'm just amused.   Mostly.   But I'm sure that the army of conservative politicians and pundits who have denounced al-Jazeera and the Arab media and the "MSM" for giving air time to al-Qaeda videos will be able to muster more outrage."

http://abuaardvark.typepad.com/


Big difference when one runs ads and the otherside runs news if not propaganda for those opposed to the US.

But hey the arab press is going to tell us the truth and not spin it to show their support of terrorists. After all the arab world is fille dwith peace and they will kill you if you expose the truth.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#16 Zwolf

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 01:15 PM

Quote

Al-Arabiya describes bin Laden and Zawahiri as "stars" of the Republican campaign.

Definitely.  He's been their MVP for years now.  Bush would never have gotten a second term without him.

Imagine Bush with no Bin Laden.  He'd have to run on the rest of his record... which is down-numbers all across the board, other than the Dow's recent bouce-back (which is good news, but isn't really that much of a biggie considering the Dow was in the 11,000's back in 2000, when Bush first came in, which means it's increased a whole 1.5% a year... making stocks under Bush a worse investment than a typical interest-bearing checking account.   Whoo-hoo!  But, hey, that's still better than the NASDAQ, which would cut your investments in half by now if you'd put money in in 2000. And now with massive deficits on top of it!  Whatta booming economy.  The tax cuts are working! :sarcasm:

Oh, and gas prices are dropping!  O' course, they're still pretty horrible if you compare them to 2000 ($1.60 a gallon?! Really?!), but that would be... inconvenient.  Anyway, those oil companies had to charge us those upper rates.  The facts, if one were to examine them (like the profit being up 75%), might lead one to believe they were gouging us, and that Bush was helping them with corporate welfare and immunity from being investigated.  But, of course that's not so, because Rush says.

So, I'm not surprised if they run on mock-up Al Quada ads, keep the fear alive.  Keep everybody so scared  they don't look at actual results.

I wonder if they really wanna catch him.  That might be bad strategy.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#17 MuseZack

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 01:27 PM

Anyone want to take bets on the odds of a new Bin Laden or Al Qaeda tape getting released a few days before the election, just like in 2004?  BTW, the CIA later concluded that that tape was certainly meant to swing the election to Bush.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#18 BklnScott

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 01:34 PM

If so, the proper Democratic response would be to air a loop of all the times when Bush has said "I'm not concerned about him," or "he's not important," etc, as Keith Olberman did in response to that ridiculous "Daisy"-type ad the GOP is ... well, actually NOT running, but floating in hopes that the cable pundits will give it free airplay.

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#19 Julianus

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 02:47 PM

Sounds like a job for Jerry Westerby, The Honorable Schoolboy?

#20 QueenTiye

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 03:58 PM

Let's see:

View PostNittany Lioness, on Oct 25 2006, 09:09 AM, said:

CNN's decision to air a video that shows an Islamic sniper shooting an American soldier in the head.

Quote

I'm reminded of CNN's chief news executive, Eason Jordan admitted covering up knowledge of the brutality and atrocities committed by Saddam's government in exchange for permission to stay and "report" on Iraq.

Which do we want? CNN NOT to report atrocities from Iraq, or CNN TO report atrocities from Iraq?

In what way will showing an "Islamic sniper shooting an American soldier" do ANYTHING but inflame Americans against Muslims in general, and Iraq in particular? Why isn't this heralded? Who precisely is behind this so-called "controversy"?

I'm amazed that anyone thinks this is news, or anything to get riled up about.  CNN is reporting something that happened - which may or may not support the war effort - depending ENTIRELY on the pov of the viewer.

QT

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