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Should God Be Sent To Jail?

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#1 Mr Dust

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 06:40 PM

Disclaimer: I mean no offence to the Christian community on this board, in fact replies from Christian people would be extremely  welcomed. I don't intend to start any arguments about what religion is right and wrong etc, I intend purely to have a simple debate about this matter. Thank you for taking part.

The points below, are from a Christians point of view. They are not MY opinion

Question: Should God be sent to Jail?

Point One:
It is proven, that whether you are gay or straight, is a matter out of your own control. I don't think anyone can argue that point. Being gay is seen as a sin. God created everything we see, including us. In that respect god created the gay person, thus god sinned.

Point Two:
We are all children of god. God blesses marriage. We all know that marrying your biological sister (or brother), is a sin. If we are all gods children, in the same respect, we are all brothers and sisters. God blesses the marriage of any two persons of the opposite sex, thus blessing a sinful act.

Point Three:
Jesus was the son of god. Mary was Jesus mother, and God his father. Mary was 13 at the time of giving birth to Jesus. It is a sinful act, to have sex with a minor. Granted, as god is so powerful he didn't need to actually have sex with Mary. But is it really fair to put the whole world onto one 13 year old girl?

Point Four:
As Jesus was the son of Mary, and the son of God, it is right to assume, that God and Mary where his parents. It is a sin to have sex (thus have children) outside of wedlock. What happened to Mrs. God? As far as we know, God didn't marry Mary before he conceived with her. IF god did marry before having a child, then who blessed it?

I am not nit picking. If you think about it, out of the above, they are quite serious offences. For one, he conceived out of wedlock. Two he put the weight of the whole world, onto one 13 year old girl. Three, he blesses sinful marriages (any marriage is sinful, because we are all brothers and sisters). God is guilty of committing multiple sins against humanity as a whole.

Should he be sent to Jail?

Edited by Murphy575, 27 October 2006 - 07:52 PM.

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#2 offworlder

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 08:59 PM

OK, I'll bite; there are too many points to address at once, it's enough to think about one, but I'll take two anyway.
point one: the part about God creating sinners, so he has sinned. DISCLAIMER: I am not a theologian and so cannot speak for the Christian churches and it would be best if one of those did so in here, and I am no expert on these issues of what the churches say or don't say, but since there may be none of those and  it's just us, I'll speak my own peace But it's just me here ..................... I hear that the churches say we are all born sinners, and it's up to us to take the teachings and improve and also repent so that we may be saved, even though Jesus said he who believeth, and didn't say also repent, is saved ... and go to afterlife and heaven and whatever all that truely is. Now: if we are all sinners, and God made us all, then God in making us, sinned? I never heard that, I don't believe that is logic properly followed, and I cannot support Point One. Just creating us, God did not sin. Besides, if God had ever really sinned, who's calling HIM on the carpet, eh? ;)

Point two: this one on brothers and marriage: this one seems to me to have no logic whatsoever, to the point I'm not even really sure what the heck the point is! he he he ... we are all brothers and sisters so then either all marriages are sinful or all are not? and God blesses all marriages no matter what even brothers, so then by that blessing He has sinned? what the heck izzatt?? I can't even follow that, and I'd love to see what a Monseignor researcher in a theological center in Italy, or a Jesuit, would say to that? ha ha ha ha ... uhhm, just because we say we are all 'brothers and sisters in the faith' &etc is nothing to do with blood brothers and sisters, apples and oranges in semantics. You know, on semantics, a LOT of religious debates by amateurs in USA are boiled down to semantics and not the real points, eh? ;)
The way I hear it, God and prophets and leaders from Abraham on down do not bless marriage between siblings, so God blessing a real marriage between non siblings would be no sin, but it's also a moot point, and in all these points too, because God is incapable of sin, any theologian will tell you that. ;) ps- in other words, even if God did bless a sinful act he would not be commiting a sin! ;) but, marriage, which is invalid between siblings, is thus not a sinful act, and a reverend or annointed priest can bless a marriage, a real one; and can counsel those attempting an invalid one.
:D
I'll come back later for Three or leave those to others. {theologian pretender wannabee cap off}  :harper:
oh wait, now I'm reading it, I'll take Three too: I never read that Mary was 13 at the time she gave birth, or pregnant; besides, she was married to Joseph and I don't know that girls, even if betrothed at 13, would have been married and joined and finalized and put into the marriage bed in that way at that age; but that's not even the point. Remember that Mary is the subject, or object, of the immaculate conception, which even though I'm no Catholic I do believe in this. That makes her pregnancy and her minorship different anyway, in fact her conception enabled her whole conceiving and pregnancy anyway ;) ........ also, minor laws of us now in USA or UK or EU, and their laws and ways in Judea back then, are not comparable, which invalidates this whole POint Three anyway ;) ......
I don't believe that under their ways she was a 'minor' when she birthed our savior. And no matter about that, the whole question of God having sex is not valid anyway  :harper:  ps- I imagine she did though at some point, as would have had to consumate her marriage with Joseph, even though that had nothing to do with God or Jesus. the purpose of Joseph was that the family have a somewhat stable but humble home with a husband and head of household with an honest trade, because a woman could not live stably without that, and she needed stability to raise Jesus to be the honest and bright kid who could grow up teach as a rabbi.
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#3 Captain Jack

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 09:34 PM

For the record, I find this thread exceedingly offensive.  Disclaimer or no disclaimer....
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#4 QueenTiye

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 09:56 PM

While some may find the irreverence of this thread uncomfortable, I'd urge patience and well thought out replies...

For the record - the offence felt here is certainly similar in content, though not in magnitude, of the feelings of Muslims seeing Prophet Muhammad wearing a bomb for a turban.

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#5 Mark

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 09:57 PM

View PostSpidey, on Oct 27 2006, 09:34 PM, said:

For the record, I find this thread exceedingly offensive.  Disclaimer or no disclaimer....

Mark: Yeah, I agree...I just don't find it worthy of a true reply.

Except for point four...which I just have to speak up on. God didn't have sex with Mary. See, Immaculate conception in the dictionary. Somebody needs to read the Bible a bit closer before posing such questions.

Edited by Mark, 27 October 2006 - 10:05 PM.

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#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 10:23 PM

While not a fan of GOD, I find the question to be absurd.

First of, since when do we put people in jail for sinning? We put people in jail when they have been convicted of a crime, not sinning. And we put them in jail after a trial, where they are tried by a jury of their peers. You know of 12 GODS that are going to sit on a jury?

Second. If you believe in GOD, then you also believe in Satan. You can't have one without the other. Doesn't work.

Third. What "Jail" would be able to hold him? None. So what would be the point?

While you can point out all the evil in the world, and say: "Why doesn't GOD do something." The answer is: There are 2 dieties, and Satan, is one. Naturally there is evil in the world.

Now Satan is technically only a fallen Angel, in the bible...So GOD should have no problems just crushing him. The FACT that he hasn't, and that he allows evil in the world, seems to me like Satan and GOD playing a chess game; with us as the pawns.

A fact I intend to take up with GOD, if I ever get up to Heaven. If that day happens you'll know. Heaven itself will shake. Cause I'm definately going to have a word or two with the boy and it won't be pretty.
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#7 White Tiger

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 10:30 PM

Quote

For the record, I find this thread exceedingly offensive. Disclaimer or no disclaimer....
I could understand your objections. I however do question the agenda and motives of God or a God.
I believe we should approach this subject with open minds and open hearts.
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#8 Anastashia

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 11:07 PM

My main problem with the questions as presented is also one of logic. Too late for me to get into detail but that would certainly be my starting point. Only after that was adressed could I effectively get into theology.

A side note for offworlder, Roman Catholic tradition maintains that Mary always remained a virgin. I like your perception of her Immaculate Conception foreshadowing her sinlessness in Jesus' conception. I never really thought of it that way although that surely gets to the heart of the matter.

To clarify, as I just reread Mark's post. The doctrine of Immaculate Conception refers to Mary being conceived without sin. This was to make her worthy of bearing the son of God as it meant she was never tainted by sin. It is not a reference to Jesus' conception which was through the action of the Holy Spirit, that spirit being defined as the familial, all-encomposing love of God for his creation.

Edited by Anastashia, 27 October 2006 - 11:23 PM.

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#9 The Tyrant

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 11:22 PM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Oct 27 2006, 10:23 PM, said:

A fact I intend to take up with GOD, if I ever get up to Heaven. If that day happens you'll know. Heaven itself will shake. Cause I'm definately going to have a word or two with the boy and it won't be pretty.

:lol: Y'know, despite not being convinced he even exists, I've had much a similar thought....

Anyone remember that song a while back? 'What if God was one of us?' Every time I heard that, my immediate reply would be 'I'd punch him in the face'...

I have issues with the big man...  :whistle:

#10 Eclipse

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 11:34 PM

Point One:

God gave man the power of choice,
man can chose to sin or not

Point two:

The children of God are free to marry one another,
The children of a man are not

Point three:

Jesus was created by a miracle,
no sex was required

Point four:

No wedding required,
as no sex was performed


any more questions?

Edited by Eclipse, 27 October 2006 - 11:36 PM.

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#11 Anastashia

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 11:39 PM

^^^^^I like your style Eclipse.
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In the quiet of Midden a young child grows.
Does the salvation of his people grow with him?
"Everything we do now is for the child"

"I made a mistake,
just follow along,
isn't that what tyranny is all about?"
Sheila M---my Praise Band Director

For as long as I shall live
I will testify to love
I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough
Testify to Love

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#12 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 12:54 AM

See let's assume God created everyone, of all sexes, sexual orientations, sexual preferences, sexual identities.    Religion is created, propogated, interpreted and furthered by human beings.  Human beings (not God) wrote the Bible.  Any words in the Bible that imply or say that being Gay is a sin are words written by human beings.  I say human beings have no jurisdiction over God.  Moreover, jail is a consequence for breaking the law.  So you'd have to jump from "sin" to "crime" and for me that's a pretty big jump.  

Or put another (and less reverent way):  I believe the answer to your question is:

"You are oh so very welcome to try."

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#13 Josh

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 01:46 AM

Quote

Question: Should God be sent to Jail?

Nah. Straight to hell!

(It seems only fair, considering how many people have let me know that's my fate)
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#14 NeuralClone

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 01:55 AM

View PostUna Salus Lillius, on Oct 28 2006, 01:54 AM, said:

See let's assume God created everyone, of all sexes, sexual orientations, sexual preferences, sexual identities.    Religion is created, propogated, interpreted and furthered by human beings.  Human beings (not God) wrote the Bible.  Any words in the Bible that imply or say that being Gay is a sin are words written by human beings.  I say human beings have no jurisdiction over God.  Moreover, jail is a consequence for breaking the law.  So you'd have to jump from "sin" to "crime" and for me that's a pretty big jump.  

Or put another (and less reverent way):  I believe the answer to your question is:

"You are oh so very welcome to try."

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#15 Captain Jack

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 02:09 AM

View PostJosh, on Oct 27 2006, 11:46 PM, said:

Quote

Question: Should God be sent to Jail?

Nah. Straight to hell!

(It seems only fair, considering how many people have let me know that's my fate)

I disagree.  God has nothing to do with the fools that told you that.  They should be reminded of not judging others lest they be judged.

Generally speaking, God has given humans a set of rules to live by, and He also gave us something called freedom of choice.  We can choose to live by God's laws, or not.  He also gave humans a gift that he gave Lucifer, and that is free will.  Lucifer abused his free will by refusing to serve humans and refusing to serve God because of it.  Satan formed an army consisting of 1/3 of Heavens angels to overthrow God.  He failed, and was banished to hell along with his dark army forever.  Okay, so I got on a tangent.

In Christianity, man serves God because we are children of God, and He gave us life.  Humans have no right to judge God, and God can not be judged.  He is all-knowing, all-powerful, and pure good.  But He is also not one to be messed with.

Now, I am not trying to pound Religion and God into anyone here for a number of reasons.  It isn't my thing, it seems many on this board are fiercly proud athiests, or pagans, and religion isn't something that should be forced upon another person.  I'm just sharing.

But I do know this through a number of incredibly powerful experiences.  There is something out there after we all die.  And whatever we do here, will affect what happens to us there.
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#16 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 09:59 AM

View PostSpidey, on Oct 28 2006, 12:09 AM, said:

God has nothing to do with the fools that told you that.  They should be reminded of not judging others lest they be judged.

Ayup.

Quote

But I do know this through a number of incredibly powerful experiences.  There is something out there after we all die.  And whatever we do here, will affect what happens to us there.

For me it's not even about what happens after I die, I know it affects me NOW!
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#17 The Oncoming Storm

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 10:01 AM

^Ditto.  Seen too much in my life to know that we're all chance happenings and that this existance is all there is.

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#18 Caithness

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 10:03 AM

So we're sending fathers to jail for the sins of their children?  

Anyhoo, good luck trying to handcuff him.
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#19 Mr Dust

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 10:58 AM

View PostCaithness, on Oct 28 2006, 04:03 PM, said:

So we're sending fathers to jail for the sins of their children?

No. God was the one who 'makes' you gay (for example) you cant choose if your gay or not, you just are, or your not...
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#20 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 11:43 AM

Ya but God didn't decree it a sin.  Some people who wrote down some stuff years and years ago that has been translated over and over seem to have thought it's a sin and some people today seem to agree and delight in saying so "in the name of" God.
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