JamesValEson, on Oct 30 2006, 06:44 AM, said:
Well, I just got to this thread, and just think somebody thought Way too much about those 4 points listed at the top of the thread.
And I was thinking it was someone who thought too little
It is proven, that whether you are gay or straight, is a matter out of your own control. I don't think anyone can argue that point. Being gay is seen as a sin. God created everything we see, including us. In that respect god created the gay person, thus god sinned.
Point one: nowhere in the Christian scriptures does it say that being
gay is a sin. The scriptures do state in a few places that it is sinful for someone to engage in sexual acts with a member of the same sex. (Though Jesus himself never addressed that issue and talked a lot more about servanthood and helping the poor and the needy and the oppressed.) But to say that being
gay is a sin -- that is, to say that a gay person sins just by existing
-- that is an evil lie.
We are all children of god. God blesses marriage. We all know that marrying your biological sister (or brother), is a sin. If we are all gods children, in the same respect, we are all brothers and sisters. God blesses the marriage of any two persons of the opposite sex, thus blessing a sinful act.
We are all children of God in the spiritual
sense, not the biological sense. The taboo was against sex with biological siblings. Therefore your point is in error.
Jesus was the son of god. Mary was Jesus mother, and God his father. Mary was 13 at the time of giving birth to Jesus. It is a sinful act, to have sex with a minor. Granted, as god is so powerful he didn't need to actually have sex with Mary. But is it really fair to put the whole world onto one 13 year old girl?
That girl was willing. She said so. Your statements about having sex with minors are not material to your final point. Besides the fact that the concept of "legal minors" was several thousand years in the future. And that while we tend to treat 13-year-olds in our culture like irresponsible children (and they often act like it, too) at the time, they were essentially adults. The idea that children aren't just "little adults" is a relatively recent concept in the scope of history.
As Jesus was the son of Mary, and the son of God, it is right to assume, that God and Mary where his parents. It is a sin to have sex (thus have children) outside of wedlock. What happened to Mrs. God? As far as we know, God didn't marry Mary before he conceived with her. IF god did marry before having a child, then who blessed it?
You make more erroneous assumptions based on modern concepts and definitions. God didn't have sex with Mary. God didn't marry Mary. God isn't even male, although the word "father" is used by Jesus to help us understand our relationship to God.
All that aside, I grow tired of Christians who think the only issue worth concerning themselves with is homosexuality. As I mentioned above, Jesus didn't have anything to say about it. He did speak about helping the poor, the needy, the oppressed, . . . about living in peace with others . . . and I wish my Christian brothers and sisters (in the spiritual sense) would spend their efforts on these other things that Jesus deemed very, very important instead of thinking that Christianity is doomed if a man kisses another man. God's quite a bit more sovereign than that.
I have a close relative who's gay who attends church regularly with his partner. What's more important? That the two of them are in a relationship with God or that the two of them end their relationship with each other? Some of my fellow Christians believe that God will not welcome them unless they deny each other. But these people have apparently never read the scripture that says that while we were still sinners
, Jesus died for us. So they have sex. Okay. I admit to being uncomfortable with that. I believe that such actions are a sin according to scripture. But,
I think what's most important is that they are in a relationship with God, and if God wants to impress upon them that their actions are sinful, he will. My job is to love them both as fellow human beings made in the image of God, and to encourage them to know God and to love him. And to leave the rest up to God.