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Kerry and his latest comment on the military

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#161 G1223

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:15 AM

View PostHibblette, on Nov 1 2006, 11:37 PM, said:

What a load.

How about all the jobs that are being outsourced.  And there's more being outsourced to India then there are in Tennessee.

Amazing how the recession 6 months before the election is shouldered onto the Democrats.  The only one they had with any power was Clinton.  They've [Repubs] been in power for over 12 years.  That recession belongs to the Republicans.


You mean the outsourcing of jobs that raised the price so high in India that it is no longer as cheap as they were to get workers.

The plants in Tennessee are made with American workers with a higher percentage of domestic content than has been in most cars in the last few decades. That means that parts of the steel and actual parts are made in the US which has means other folks have jobs.
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#162 Hibblette

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:24 AM

Well I suppose I could argue that the whole Bush family are Carpetbaggers of the 1970's.

But yes we have been known to do that:

http://www.tsha.utex...es/CC/mqc1.html

Quote

COKE-DAVIS CONTROVERSY. In the election of December 1873 Richard Cokeqv received 100,415 votes for governor against 52,141 for Edmund J. Davis.qv The election had been characterized by fraud and intimidation on both sides. Davis, the incumbent, proclaimed that he had a right to finish out his four-year term, and the "Semicolon Court,"qv in the case Ex parte Rodriguez,qv held that the election was illegal. Disregarding the court ruling, the Democrats secured the keys to the second floor of the Capitol and took possession. Davis was reported to have state troops stationed on the lower floor. The Travis Rifles (see TRAVIS GUARDS AND RIFLES), summoned to protect Davis, were converted into a sheriff's posse and protected Coke. On January 15, 1874, Coke was inaugurated as governor. On January 16 Davis arranged for a truce, but he made one final appeal for federal intervention. A telegram from President Ulysses S. Grant said that he did not feel warranted in sending federal troops to keep Davis in office. Davis resigned his office on January 19. Coke's inauguration restored Democratic control in Texas.

I've always loved this tid bit of history of Texas.

But back to the issues:

So Kerry botched the joke.  So the Repubs lamely latch onto this and make a big deal out of it.  This is politics.

But...it doesn't mean the American people will necessarily fall for it.  

People are pretty well fed up with Iraq, the economy (that is the fact that the poor are on life support) and our morals are actually worse then when Clinton said, "I did not have a sexual relation with that woman."
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#163 Hibblette

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:26 AM

View PostG1223, on Nov 1 2006, 11:15 PM, said:

View PostHibblette, on Nov 1 2006, 11:37 PM, said:


What a load.

How about all the jobs that are being outsourced.  And there's more being outsourced to India then there are in Tennessee.

Amazing how the recession 6 months before the election is shouldered onto the Democrats.  The only one they had with any power was Clinton.  They've [Repubs] been in power for over 12 years.  That recession belongs to the Republicans.


You mean the outsourcing of jobs that raised the price so high in India that it is no longer as cheap as they were to get workers.

The plants in Tennessee are made with American workers with a higher percentage of domestic content than has been in most cars in the last few decades. That means that parts of the steel and actual parts are made in the US which has means other folks have jobs.

G-that's one instance.  Big whoop.  The outsourcing is still happening and now then there's the possibility that people with nice safe secure jobs in the Banking industry are about to be outsourced.

It is still cheaper for these fat cats to outsource, if not India, there's always someplace else.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

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#164 G1223

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 01:14 AM

Hibblette you listed India as your source for out sourcing. Then when it gets shot down you blow away the explaination.

That is the sort of stuff your party does all the time to avoid their facts being wrong. This is why I am finished discussing the topic. You are not looking to have your view change to deal with the facts. And that makes debate pointless.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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#165 Broph

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 07:21 AM

View PostG1223, on Nov 2 2006, 05:15 AM, said:

You mean the outsourcing of jobs that raised the price so high in India that it is no longer as cheap as they were to get workers.

The plants in Tennessee are made with American workers with a higher percentage of domestic content than has been in most cars in the last few decades. That means that parts of the steel and actual parts are made in the US which has means other folks have jobs.

G1223, I can confirm that India is a hot place for outsourcing jobs. Dell opened up a call-for-help center employing 20,000 people. Fidelity and several other financial-based companies are opening new offices and hiring workers in India for jobs that used to be done in the US.

#166 G1223

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 07:28 AM

Yes they did. And I am telling you from NBC early this year or late 05 had a news story about the fact that the price of those jobs has gone up enough that it a few cases at least it has been cheaper to stay stateside with the jobs. Add in that other jobs are being created by forigen car companies building new plants  or taking over ones that were closed here closer to their market places.(ie Trucks in the Texas, Compacts in the Mid West as examples) These companies are hiring workers. Indiana got a new plant that is going in next year from I think Honda. Guess what they are not bring ing workers from Japan to operate it.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#167 Hibblette

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 08:27 AM

View PostG1223, on Nov 2 2006, 12:14 AM, said:

Hibblette you listed India as your source for out sourcing. Then when it gets shot down you blow away the explaination.

That is the sort of stuff your party does all the time to avoid their facts being wrong. This is why I am finished discussing the topic. You are not looking to have your view change to deal with the facts. And that makes debate pointless.

Oh good lawdy.

India is just an example.  And you knew that.

Perhaps the price of living went up there but they are still outsourcing to India-Dell ain't pulled out.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#168 Tricia

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 08:37 AM

Outsourcing?

Who did what and how much for Katrina victims?

Geez....this thread has spun way off course with only a couple of mentions of the real subject of this thread in recent posts.

LOL

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#169 G1223

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 09:13 AM

It's the pass the blame game. It is not a matter that Kerry said what he said. It is Bush is EVIL or stupid or whatever the smear of the day is. And we have had six years of it. So it passes for what goes as debate these days.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#170 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 09:25 AM

Yea, let's get back to the apology.   :D
If I've got the chronology right, he claimed on Imus that he apologized before he actually apologized and after he adamently swore he would never apologize.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15512797/

http://www.nytimes.c...transcript.html

He's still clinging to the ridiculous assertion that his words, as stated, were misinterpreted by those hearing them.
"I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended."

That places some culpability on the gazillions who correctly understood the english language.
So he still sucks hind tit.  What an spectacular ass.

He likely was taking a page out of Clinton's playbook when he got steamed at Chris Wallace, and, like George Costanza, did the opposite of his pale reactions to the Swiftboat controversy.  Backfired.  A questioner at that Oct. 31st debacle even opened it up for him to just say sorry to the troops foraccidentally saying they were idiot canon fodder - but yet he continued with his uppity desperation and didn't!  WTF!

So the "misinterpretation" part genuinely waters down the eventual, actual "sorry" to the troops and americans who were offended.

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#171 BklnScott

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 09:39 AM

View PostMark, on Nov 1 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

Mark: Don't be such a grump. I realize Katrina was a tragedy, Jeez! Sometimes all we have left is our sense of humor about things...when we lose that, we know we're in real trouble.
One more thing...where do you think the majority of Katrina evacuees went to? TEXAS! Don't think all we did was sit around...we're still takin' care of a lot of those folks.

Yeah, I for one thought it was particularly amusing when Barbara Bush said that the 'fugees didn't mind sleeping in the Astrodome, because it was better than what they had at home.

Barbara Bush said:

What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them.

Her son's incompetence and cronyism results in the destruction of a major American city, and his mother says, 'Let them eat cake!'  

Now, that was funny.  Just not "funny ha-ha."

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#172 Timon

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 10:36 AM

Kerry isn't running for office in 6 days making this a complete and total non-issue. Kerry made an ass of himself.....again. What else is new. This isn't news its piffle.

Which is why media pinheads keep yammering on about it instead of the real issues at stake in this election that actually effect all of us and can intimately touch our lives. Oh say like...the pissing on of basic constitutional concepts of individual privacies that this administration participated in over the last 4-6 years. Anyone seeking reelection who supported the Bush administration's attempt at infringing on basic constitution rights or breaking the Geneva convention codes should be voted out, period. Whether they're republican or democratic doesn't matter. Then there's Iraq/Afghanistan, immigration, economic issues affecting the ever struggling middle classes, dependency on foreign oils, lobbyist issues, etc., etc.

It's the equivalent of discussing a flag burning or gay marriage amendment when New Orleans is sinking. Maybe that's why this thread is 4 pages long. People are too easily distracted by simple headline grabbing non-issues instead of serious issues that take real time and effort to consider and discuss. We may as well be discussing the impending marriage of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes.

#173 Drew

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 10:39 AM

View PostScottEVill, on Nov 2 2006, 08:39 AM, said:

Her son's incompetence and cronyism results in the destruction of a major American city, and his mother says, 'Let them eat cake!'

Okay, let's not let Bush-hatred devour reason. New Orleans was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina, not FEMA. And George W. Bush did not cause Hurricane Katrina. When someone makes this sort of comment, it's a clue to ignore everything else they say, because rationality has left the building.

And in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, there's plenty of bipartisan incompetence to go around.

Let's also remember that when it comes to helping the victims, churches, private organizations, and a crapload of willing individuals accomplished a lot more in terms of meeting the immediate needs of the victims than the goverment bodies who were too tied up in red tape to get anything done with efficiency. N.O. was a good example of how depending on the government to save you is a bad wager -- in any situation.
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#174 BklnScott

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 11:54 AM

View PostDrew, on Nov 2 2006, 10:39 AM, said:

View PostScottEVill, on Nov 2 2006, 08:39 AM, said:

Her son's incompetence and cronyism results in the destruction of a major American city, and his mother says, 'Let them eat cake!'

Okay, let's not let Bush-hatred devour reason. New Orleans was destroyed by Hurricane Katrina, not FEMA. And George W. Bush did not cause Hurricane Katrina.

No one is saying he did, Drew, but it's hardly controversial to point out that the difference between a New Orleans badly damanged by Hurricane Katrina and a New Orleans destroyed by Hurricane Katrina lies entirely in the quality of the Federal response -- and responsibility for that absolutely does rest squarely on the shoudlers of George W Bush, who gutted FEMA financially while stocking it with incompetent cronies.

You can disagree with that assessment all you want, but there's no call to get personal.

Quote

When someone makes this sort of comment, it's a clue to ignore everything else they say, because rationality has left the building.

Edited by ScottEVill, 02 November 2006 - 12:00 PM.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#175 Drew

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:03 PM

View PostScottEVill, on Nov 2 2006, 10:54 AM, said:

You can disagree with that assessment all you want, but there's no call to get personal.

My apologies. I wasn't trying to get personal. I was trying to say that "George Bush destroyed New Orleans" is irrational, inflammatory rhetoric, and it reflects poorly on those who use it.

Quote

but it's hardly controversial to point out that the difference between a New Orleans badly damanged by Hurricane Katrina and a New Orleans destroyed by Hurricane Katrina lies entirely in the quality of the Federal response -- and responsibility for that absolutely does rest squarely on the shoudlers of George W Bush, who gutted FEMA financially while stocking it with incompetent cronies.

FEMA is there to respond to emergencies, not prevent them. I think you're still missing the target. Was FEMA responsible for making sure the dikes were up to par? Seems to me that whoever failed in that area would have to bear the weight of the responsibility for the "destruction of New Orleans."

FEMA is full of incompetents, to be sure. Every government agency is. Which is why I think I'm a perfect candidate for a government job.

Edited by Drew, 02 November 2006 - 12:08 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#176 Mr. Synystyr

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:06 PM

Please forgive me for the following rant:

All right, so Kerry, who isn't a candidate for anything right now, and who we all know can't speak publicly much better than G.W., delivers a poorly written joke badly, and this is big news in the media, and a big talking point here?!

While it would be easy to blame the media, or the politicians, the bottom line is that it's our own fault for letting the magician make us look where he wants us to look, and see only what he wants us to see.

If only an enlightened meritocratic dictatorship would actually work for more than a generation or two...

/end rant

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#177 SparkyCola

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:07 PM

Quote

Mark: Don't be such a grump. I realize Katrina was a tragedy, Jeez! Sometimes all we have left is our sense of humor about things...when we lose that, we know we're in real trouble.

Perhaps before agreeing to this I should quickly check to see how many people here took offence to Blackadder being set in WW1? Or 'Allo 'Allo set during the war? Or Porridge set in a prison? The war was terrible - yet we have Britcoms that laugh at it. Is that tasteless or is it something humans MUST do to keep some semblance of sanity?

Maybe it's just a little too soon though, I don't know.

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#178 Drew

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:08 PM

View PostSparkyCola, on Nov 2 2006, 11:07 AM, said:

Maybe it's just a little too soon though, I don't know.

Tragedy + Time = Comedy. Isn't that how it goes?
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#179 Zwolf

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:42 PM

Here's a testimonial from Daily Kos about Kerry and the family of a fallen soldier, just in case anybody really thought he mocked soldiers.  I think everybody's pretty clear that the big goon just can't tell a frickin' joke to save his life, but, just in case...

I do think the banner those soldiers made was hilarious, in any case... :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#180 scherzo

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 12:42 PM

Quote

Okay, let's not let Bush-hatred devour reason.
Hah..."reason" is the first thing to go. The pathology of Bush hatred can potentially stop there if caught early. Advanced stages of the disease leads to perpetual anger, and eventually outright madness. Anyone harboring hostility to the Bush Administration for the disaster in New Orleans, is probably in critical condition.

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