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Kerry and his latest comment on the military

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#61 Cait

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 10:44 PM

View Postwaterpanther, on Oct 31 2006, 07:09 PM, said:

It's fascinating to watch people flog themselves into an indignant frenzy over remarks that John Kerry never made--remarks they know he never made.  It's an object lesson in how propaganda works.

I agree.  It is interesting to watch in action actually.  Well, interesting in a 'watching a train wreck ' kind of way.  I can't believe how little people understand of propaganda and political manipulation.  We hear that one side does it all the time, but the other side is on the side of the angels.  [pick your own side, narrow-mindedness knows no bounds]

And did you see how quickly the President latched on to this to give the Republican masses a "Clarion Call"?  I can't believe he can campaign with a straight face saying that stuff.  Which, on the face, is disturbing in its own right.

And G.. Do you actually think that any politician thinks he can get elected [or get others elected] by disparaging the troops?  Do you?  I mean even if he truly hated the troops, which I think is absurd to believe BTW, no one can get elected saying that the sons and daughters of voters are irrelevant or stupid.  

The man almost became the President of the US.  You might not like him, but he was smart enough to almost be president.. let's at least give him some credit for not saying something stupid AND MEANING IT.  He just said somethign that was easy to distort.  Imagine that!  The opposition distorting something.

And no matter what you think, Scott is right, it's not nearly the affront that calling Democrats traitors is [yes I now that is  a bad sentence].  That's all that comes out of Bush's mouth.  It's all he can say.  Democrats are Satan's spawn, and we'll all go to hell if a Democrat is elected Dog Catcher.  It's absurd to believe that Kerry's comments should be taken seriously as some kind of indication of what a menace he is in politics, yet Bush's comments should be taken as "Politics as usual".

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#62 Hibblette

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 10:44 PM

Why vote Repub when they've been in control and we are in a mess.

They are in full control.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#63 Jazzer

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:14 PM

http://news.yahoo.co...tics_kerry_dc_3

Quote

While campaigning in California, Kerry told a college crowd on Monday: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Kerry's office released his prepared remarks, which said, "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."
Going back even to Kerry's "prepared remarks", it still sounds like an insult.  In essence, he's still implying that "if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy" that you'll be like Bush.  Whether Kerry was referring to the troops or not, that was still insulting to those who "don't study", "aren't smart", and "are intellectually lazy".  ;)   He was still insulting more people than just Bush & Bush's administration.  :D  (Kinda reminds me of the Geico commercials insulting the cavemen.  :whistle:   :D  )  

Anyway, with what Kerry actually said - regardless of what he may have intended - he still provided more easy, ready-made fodder for the political attack machines.  

No shortage of idiocy on both sides of the aisle.  Politics makes for quite a circus.  :D
Unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as unquestioned answers.

#64 MuseZack

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:18 PM

View Postwaterpanther, on Nov 1 2006, 03:09 AM, said:

It's fascinating to watch people flog themselves into an indignant frenzy over remarks that John Kerry never made--remarks they know he never made.  It's an object lesson in how propaganda works.

Go easy on them.  The noise machine isn't hitting on all cylinders these days.  Especially since the last three attempts at manufactured outrage and smearing-- "Jim Webb is a pornographer!"  "Harold Ford is an uppity negro who covets our white women!"  "Michael J. Fox is faking his Parkinsons' symptoms for political reasons!"-- all blew up in their faces.  It's only natural that they'd try to relive their last success at scumminess, the Swift Boat campaign of 2004.  Unfortunately for them, Kerry's actually learned to hit back since then.  So we'll see how this plays.  Do the Republicans really want to spend the next week talking about Iraq?  Bring it on.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#65 Caretaker

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:19 PM

View PostMark, on Oct 31 2006, 06:19 PM, said:

View PostDev F, on Oct 31 2006, 05:07 PM, said:

View PostMark, on Oct 31 2006, 05:01 PM, said:

BTW, I think Kerry said it exactly the way he intended to.  :devil:
Please. A career politician intended to insult the intelligence of every single member of the armed forces on the eve of a hugely critical election? That's absolute nonsense, wishful thinking of the most uncritical kind.

Mark: Sorry, it's not wishful thinking. This isn't  the first time Kerry has insulted our armed forces. It's his track record! The man needs to be removed from office...for EVERYONE'S sake.

I really want to say something truly unkind about if you believe the GOP spin about this, then you truly deserve the government we've had for the past six years.  If people can't see the different between what was said and what was meant, we are royally screwed.

#66 waterpanther

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:20 PM

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ďIf anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. Iím sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

Iím not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Foxís Parkinsonís disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.

Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because theyíre afraid to debate real men. And this time it wonít work because weíre going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq.Ē


Quoted in its entirety because it's a press release.

Kerry press release
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#67 scherzo

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:31 PM

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The man almost became the President of the US. You might not like him, but he was smart enough to almost be president.. let's at least give him some credit for not saying something stupid AND MEANING IT. He just said somethign that was easy to distort. Imagine that! The opposition distorting something.
Distortion? I thought the outrage had to do with his exact words, which he could have corrected on the spot if he were inclined to. There's very little in either Kerry's history, or the perception of military personnel by people of his ilk, that would cause me to grant him benefit of the doubt here. And if he really was trying to make yet another absurd "joke" about Bush's intelligence, I'm pleased that it backfired. The fact that it basically makes him look like a complete idiot in the process is terrific irony.

-scherzo
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#68 Mark

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:32 PM

Caretaker:

Quote

I really want to say something truly unkind about if you believe the GOP spin about this, then you truly deserve the government we've had for the past six years.

Mark: Thanks. :glare:
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#69 Cait

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:35 PM

View PostMuseZack, on Oct 31 2006, 08:18 PM, said:

View Postwaterpanther, on Nov 1 2006, 03:09 AM, said:

It's fascinating to watch people flog themselves into an indignant frenzy over remarks that John Kerry never made--remarks they know he never made.  It's an object lesson in how propaganda works.

Go easy on them.  The noise machine isn't hitting on all cylinders these days.  Especially since the last three attempts at manufactured outrage and smearing-- "Jim Webb is a pornographer!"  "Harold Ford is an uppity negro who covets our white women!"  "Michael J. Fox is faking his Parkinsons' symptoms for political reasons!"-- all blew up in their faces.  It's only natural that they'd try to relive their last success at scumminess, the Swift Boat campaign of 2004.  Unfortunately for them, Kerry's actually learned to hit back since then.  So we'll see how this plays.  Do the Republicans really want to spend the next week talking about Iraq?  Bring it on.

True.  All too true!  :devil:

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#70 Cait

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:37 PM

View Postscherzo, on Oct 31 2006, 08:31 PM, said:

Quote

The man almost became the President of the US. You might not like him, but he was smart enough to almost be president.. let's at least give him some credit for not saying something stupid AND MEANING IT. He just said somethign that was easy to distort. Imagine that! The opposition distorting something.
Distortion? I thought the outrage had to do with his exact words, which he could have corrected on the spot if he were inclined to. There's very little in either Kerry's history, or the perception of military personnel by people of his ilk, that would cause me to grant him benefit of the doubt here. And if he really was trying to make yet another absurd "joke" about Bush's intelligence, I'm pleased that it backfired. The fact that it basically makes him look like a complete idiot in the process is terrific irony.

-scherzo

We all find our pleasures where we can.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#71 Hibblette

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:40 PM

View PostJazzergold, on Oct 31 2006, 10:14 PM, said:

http://news.yahoo.co...tics_kerry_dc_3

Quote

While campaigning in California, Kerry told a college crowd on Monday: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Kerry's office released his prepared remarks, which said, "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."
Going back even to Kerry's "prepared remarks", it still sounds like an insult.  In essence, he's still implying that "if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy" that you'll be like Bush.  Whether Kerry was referring to the troops or not, that was still insulting to those who "don't study", "aren't smart", and "are intellectually lazy".  ;)   He was still insulting more people than just Bush & Bush's administration.  :D  (Kinda reminds me of the Geico commercials insulting the cavemen.  :whistle:   :D  )  

Anyway, with what Kerry actually said - regardless of what he may have intended - he still provided more easy, ready-made fodder for the political attack machines.  

No shortage of idiocy on both sides of the aisle.  Politics makes for quite a circus.  :D


He was talking at a college.  It is about studying and learning and expanding.

Bush is known for being a total screw up when it came to ... well everything he's attempted.  

Personally I don't classify myself as intellectually lazy or not smart or as someone who didn't study.  So I'm not insulted.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#72 scherzo

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:41 PM

Quote

"Jim Webb is a pornographer!" "Harold Ford is an uppity negro who covets our white women!" "Michael J. Fox is faking his Parkinsons' symptoms for political reasons!"
Someone said something earlier about "distortion"? :blink:

"Uppity Negro" eh. :Oo:  

...lily-white liberals do love to toss the slurs around.

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#73 BklnScott

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:45 PM

View PostDrew, on Oct 31 2006, 10:12 PM, said:

View PostMark, on Oct 31 2006, 07:47 PM, said:

Come on Dems! Convince me that ya'll deserve my vote on your own merits...not because I'm scared of the Repubs. ;)

Y'know . . . I got a political flyer stuck in my door again (get three or four probably every day now) and it was for some guy running for state assembly. And the whole flyer was nothing but line after line about how his opponent was just like George Bush! Booga! Booga! Booga! Not a word of specifics about his own platform. Not even attacking his opponent's record outright. Just an attempt to scare the locals into voting for him by calling up the specter of George Bush -- and last I checked, George Bush wasn't running for state assembly.

So, Mark, I'm with you. Candidates, please stop telling me that your opponent is the devil, and start telling me why you're a valid option.

I'm hearing a lot of this enlightened perspective from nominal Bush supporters lately (not just here).  Funny how we didn't hear a squeak from them when the Vice President said in a natinoally televised debate that a vote for the Democratic ticket was a vote for mushroom clouds over American cities.  

Didn't hear much about how abhorrent that scare tactic was back then, did we?  

Or, for that matter, about how abhorrent the scare tactic Bush threw down in Georgia on Monday (reprinted up thread) was.  

Nope...  

What we hear is, "Come on Dems! Convince me that ya'll deserve my vote on your own merits...not because I'm scared of the Repubs."

What I'm saying is, I'll take these remarks at face-value when I start to hear the same people say, "Come on, Repubs--Convince me that y'all deserve my vote on your own merits... not because I'm scared of the Dems!"

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#74 QueenTiye

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:46 PM

One needn't "Hate" the soldiers to make the slur that people are hearing.... namely that only people who are uneducated get stuck being in the military, and therefore, in untenable wars.  It doesn't seem to me that Sen. Kerry intended to say that, but it does irk some that having gotten the words wrong, he didn't feel the wrongness of them and fix them.  Of course - I'm not a public speaker and don't have to read prepared (by other people) speeches for a living, so I don't know how good one gets at reading words one hasn't given any thought to.

Its a sobering thought, really... We get very angry at our politicians for saying this or that, when they are typically mouthing what someone else told them to say....

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#75 BklnScott

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:49 PM

View Postscherzo, on Oct 31 2006, 11:41 PM, said:

Quote

"Jim Webb is a pornographer!" "Harold Ford is an uppity negro who covets our white women!" "Michael J. Fox is faking his Parkinsons' symptoms for political reasons!"
Someone said something earlier about "distortion"? :blink:

"Uppity Negro" eh. :Oo:  

...lily-white liberals do love to toss the slurs around.

-scherzo

Have you seen the ad?  It's an accurate description of the racist message being sold therein.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#76 Banapis

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:52 PM

View Postscherzo, on Oct 31 2006, 11:31 PM, said:

Distortion? I thought the outrage had to do with his exact words
Exact words?  

Could you point me to the word "troops" in those remarks?  No, because they are not there.  You want people to infer the insult is directed at our troops and not the President.  That's a mighty tall hill to climb, mister.  In order to convince people to infer something, to read in something that isn't expressly there, you better give people the full context or the remark.  You better give people the sentences immediately preceding the questionable statement and the ones following it.  That is the way things work in the world of rational thought that exists outside the isolated cocoon of GOP fandom.  Of course, the problem is the sentences immediately preceding the "insult to our troops" refer explicitly to President Bush and not our soldiers.

*GOP Wurlitzer Mode*
I think the real question becomes: why do assume a statement about not studying refers to our troops?  Why do *you* think so poorly of our troops to read in an outrageous statement like that?  Your behavior is appalling and quite telling about your own thoughts about our troops.  Tell us, why do you hate our troops so much?  
*/GOP Wurlitzer Mode*

Banapis

#77 Mark

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:52 PM

ScottEVill: "Come on, Repubs--Convince me that y'all deserve my vote on your own merits... not because I'm scared of the Dems!"

Mark: I'm glad to know my words are wise enough to be used retroactively, and repeated.  :D

And by all means...the Repubs must convince me on their own merits too.

How's that Scott?  :cool:

Edited by Mark, 31 October 2006 - 11:55 PM.

Mark
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Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
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#78 QueenTiye

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:53 PM

View PostScottEVill, on Oct 31 2006, 11:49 PM, said:

View Postscherzo, on Oct 31 2006, 11:41 PM, said:

Quote

"Jim Webb is a pornographer!" "Harold Ford is an uppity negro who covets our white women!" "Michael J. Fox is faking his Parkinsons' symptoms for political reasons!"
Someone said something earlier about "distortion"? :blink:

"Uppity Negro" eh. :Oo:  

...lily-white liberals do love to toss the slurs around.

-scherzo

Have you seen the ad?  It's an accurate description of the racist message being sold therein.

Link please?

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#79 MuseZack

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:56 PM

View Postscherzo, on Nov 1 2006, 04:41 AM, said:

Quote

"Jim Webb is a pornographer!" "Harold Ford is an uppity negro who covets our white women!" "Michael J. Fox is faking his Parkinsons' symptoms for political reasons!"
Someone said something earlier about "distortion"? :blink:

"Uppity Negro" eh. :Oo:  

...lily-white liberals do love to toss the slurs around.

-scherzo

Quick, someone tell my Lebanese mother how she gave birth to a lily-white son!  

And you wanna talk about the "Call me?" ads the RNC ran, the ones that even Republican William Cohen described as borderline racist?  Or maybe the Corker radio spots that turned up the "jungle drums" sounds whenever Ford's name was mentioned?  By all means, lets.  

Or we can go for double jeapordy and talk about Jesse Helms' "white hands, black hands" ads against Harvey Gantt, or even why Ronald Reagan kicked off his 1980 presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi?  That latter one is particularly choice.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#80 scherzo

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 12:02 AM

Harold Ford himself doesn't consider the ad racist. Apparently not everyone see's the world through the same prism as passive aggressive liberal racists.

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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