Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

U.S. commander decries Iraq Timetable

Iraq 2006 Time table Troop withdraw Criticism

  • Please log in to reply
107 replies to this topic

#101 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 18 November 2006 - 10:57 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Nov 18 2006, 07:37 PM, said:

Cait,

Well...except for my spelling mistakes.  :blush:

:p

True, those are all yours :p

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#102 Mark

Mark
  • Islander
  • 5,269 posts

Posted 18 November 2006 - 10:58 PM

Mark: Gode to sleep!  ;)
Mark
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge: argument is an exchange of ignorance.
Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
APOGEE MESSAGE BOARD

#103 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 18 November 2006 - 10:59 PM

Yeah, wish I could. There are times I hate my insomnia.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#104 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 18 November 2006 - 11:01 PM

View Posttennyson, on Nov 18 2006, 10:48 PM, said:

Quote

With Vietnam, you were fighting a country.

With Vietnam you were fighting an expansionist political ideology, Marxism as interpreted by leaders such as Mao and Ho Chi Minh. North Vietnam was directly supported with money and war material from both the Soviet Union and the PRC. They had next to no industrial capacity of thier own yet by 1968 the area around Hanoi had the densest, most sophisticated layered air defences on the planet including the latest Soviet fighters, surface to air missiles and radars.
They were constantly be resupplied with small arms, ammunition, mortors, even the latest in Soviet towed artillery. When the South fell in 1975 it was to geurilla raiders from the jungle, they had been all but eliminated in Tet, replaced by NVA regulars. It was overun by Soviet style armoured and mechanized units.
After absorbing the south the united Vietnam then invaded Laos and Cambodia and occupied them until withdrawling in the late 1980s.
In Iraq, the various forces don't have anything like superpower level support. Iran is funneling its money and people into thier own factions, and  Al-Queda has thier people, but it is not one single ideology uniting the fighters. The Sunni factions including the very secular former Ba'ath party members fight the Shia and thier own internal enemies and Al-Queda and the Shia do the same. The local leaders are using ethnic and religous tensions to further thier own power just like other countries like Iran are using it to gain influence. But these tensions aren't based on one simple single ideology or one simple kind of conflict. Islamic fundamentalism is a problem but it isn't a united problem with a single face or organization, and it is the job of world leaders to make sure that it doesn't gain that single voice.


Good points.  :cool: But I still think that it's within the realm of possibility that groups of Islamic radicals can form some sort of union to combat those who would threaten what they see as their Islamic way of life. To what degree? I honestly don't know. How cohesive could such a gathering be? I don't know.

A group did get together to pull off 9/11. 3,000 lives were lost. I honestly couldn't say if that level of death and destruction could be pulled off again-but as I've said before-people are capable of ANYTHING.

:eh:
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#105 Pallas

Pallas

    Wicked--Like the Witch of the West

  • Islander
  • 833 posts

Posted 19 November 2006 - 02:38 AM

View Posttennyson, on Nov 18 2006, 08:09 PM, said:

Hasn't the US been asking for help for quite a while now and not been recieving it from such nations as India, France and Pakistan? and wasn't it the UN that withdraw their efforts in Iraq on thier own after the suicide bombing of thier headquarters?

I'm not sure. Have they? The UN website tells me that there is reconstruction projects as well as a polio immunization program going on. There is also a UN Assistance Program for Iraq, which appears to be a primarily humanitarian task force at the moment.

But what I'm talking about is asking for a Chapter 7 mandate, a use of a multinational force to relieve the pressure on American troops and allow a gradual withdrawal of said troops. This obviously isn't going to be easy since most countries wash their hands of Iraq but I think that civil war (impending or otherwise) is definitely everybody's problem as is Darfur, Sudan.
We can do noble acts without ruling the earth and sea--Aristotle

#106 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 19 November 2006 - 02:27 PM

Here's an interesting article that goes into what Kissinger has to say about the current situation in Iraq.  Can't say as I disagree with him on the mess we have now, nor that we have to deal with the mess we have "now", not how we got here.

Washington Post

Quote

"If you mean by 'military victory' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," he told the British Broadcasting Corp.

But Kissinger, an architect of the Vietnam war who has advised President Bush about Iraq, warned against a rapid withdrawal of coalition troops, saying it could destabilize Iraq's neighbors and cause a long-lasting conflict.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#107 tennyson

tennyson
  • Islander
  • 6,173 posts

Posted 19 November 2006 - 11:45 PM

Quote

Have they?
I was asking the question because I wasn't completely sure not because I had the answer. While my memory is good pure memory can only take you so far. Apparently the news broadcasts after the suicide bombing of the UN headqarters in Iraq of the organization completely leaving where in error.
The other question was based on a memory of what I thought was a US attempt to get a Chapter 7 mandate that failed within the last few years. But I wasn't sure enough of this to say anything definite, hence the question.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#108 Pallas

Pallas

    Wicked--Like the Witch of the West

  • Islander
  • 833 posts

Posted 20 November 2006 - 12:40 AM

View Posttennyson, on Nov 19 2006, 09:45 PM, said:

Quote

Have they?
I was asking the question because I wasn't completely sure not because I had the answer. While my memory is good pure memory can only take you so far. Apparently the news broadcasts after the suicide bombing of the UN headqarters in Iraq of the organization completely leaving where in error.
The other question was based on a memory of what I thought was a US attempt to get a Chapter 7 mandate that failed within the last few years. But I wasn't sure enough of this to say anything definite, hence the question.

Oh LOL because I wasn't sure either. I usually am pretty good about keeping up with UN news but neither the media nor anything else I've come across has indicated to me whatsoever that the UN is giving any indication for a Chapter 7 mandate nor has the US actually asked for one. I tried googling it but came up with nothing definitive (or that I would even remotely consider reliable).

I know the US has been embroiled with UN squabbles over North Korea and Iran over their weapons but as for Iraq, there seems to me a strictly hands-off policy, likely stemming from the time Colin Powell tried to pull the wool over their eyes. I think a lot of countries are still smarting after that one and are taking somewhat perverse pleasure in watching this explode in George Bush's face.

But, optimism aside, getting a Chapt VII mandate will be hard considering nobody wants to wade into the quagmire but I think it should be seriously considered and pushed, hard, by the United States to get a force in their ASAP so the Americans can begin...whatever it is the government wants to do. I personally think it's one of the ways the Americans can withdraw--because a gaping hole where Iraq use to be is no good to anyone and stability in the region is one of those things that should be high on everybody's foreign policy agenda.
We can do noble acts without ruling the earth and sea--Aristotle



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Iraq, 2006, Time table, Troop withdraw, Criticism

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users