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6 Muslims removed from flight for praying

Airline Removal of Muslims 2006 Praying Terrorism

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#21 MuseZack

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:22 PM

Given the fact that the 9/11 hijackers went out of their way to look inconspicuous, wearing normal western clothing, shaving beards, not praying in public, and so forth, shouldn't the fact that these guys were so public about their muslimness put people at ease?  


And airports throughout Asia have small sections set aside for muslims to engage in discreet and dignified prayer.  I don't get what the big deal is here.  People need to get over themselves and stop peeing their pants every time they see a muslim.
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#22 scherzo

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:23 PM

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When are we gonna stop being afraid of Muslims?
When they get a new hobby. Preferably one that doesn't involve mass murder.

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#23 enTranced

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:26 PM

View PostMuseZack, on Nov 22 2006, 07:22 PM, said:

And airports throughout Asia have small sections set aside for muslims to engage in discreet and dignified prayer.  I don't get what the big deal is here.  People need to get over themselves and stop peeing their pants every time they see a muslim.

Well said!

But sadly, I don't think that it is going to happen. Especialy when you go into a airport and Robo-Voice is telling you to be ALERT! And to REPORT! any suspicous activity what do we expect? Those creepy praying guys look suspicious! Git'em!

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#24 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:31 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Nov 22 2006, 01:54 PM, said:

If you were a Muslim terrorist, would you be praying loudly in an airport or would you be trying to make yourself as inconspicuous as possible?

It's kind of hard for me to picture myself as that...and I'm not talking just about skin color, but I just can't see myself strapping a bomb to my body to blow up a plane. Sorry, common sense, not to mention self preservation, kick in at that point.

But, there are 2 ways to go. Try and blend in, or try and hide in plain sight. Maybe by doing what the other hijackers DIDN'T do, it would put people at ease....Not sure how I would approach it.
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#25 scherzo

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:32 PM

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Given the fact that the 9/11 hijackers went out of their way to look inconspicuous, wearing normal western clothing, shaving beards, not praying in public, and so forth, shouldn't the fact that these guys were so public about their muslimness put people at ease?
If the 9/11 hijackers had been looked upon with suspicion before boarding their planes...you and a phalanx of super-libs would be decrying the blatant bigotry Zack. Given THAT fact, maybe we should consider shelving the PC bullsh*t, and stop pretending we don't know who the killers ALWAYS are. Oh wait, that's right...addressing the obvious will just make them hate us even more I'm told.

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#26 enTranced

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:36 PM

View PostLORD of the SWORD, on Nov 22 2006, 07:31 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Nov 22 2006, 01:54 PM, said:


If you were a Muslim terrorist, would you be praying loudly in an airport or would you be trying to make yourself as inconspicuous as possible?

It's kind of hard for me to picture myself as that...and I'm not talking just about skin color, but I just can't see myself strapping a bomb to my body to blow up a plane. Sorry, common sense, not to mention self preservation, kick in at that point.

But, there are 2 ways to go. Try and blend in, or try and hide in plain sight. Maybe by doing what the other hijackers DIDN'T do, it would put people at ease....Not sure how I would approach it.

I think the point he was trying to make is that if they were up to no good they simply would not take the chance. That said these guys should have realized what was going to happen to them even though I agree with Zack that it should not have had to.

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#27 Broph

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:45 PM

View PostDrew, on Nov 22 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

This has been in the news over here, and there is a little more to the story than what's given here. These six imams had just come from a convention where, according to reports, the main speaker engaged in such loud anti-U.S. rhetoric that he was disturbing other conventions at the same hotel. Also, there has been some question about the speaker's or organizer's past association with Osama bin Laden. So there were other, extenuating circumstances here that probably gave more cause to alarm authorities.

I'm sorry, but what's the likelihood that a bunch of random Western passengers would have even known what convention these imams were at or who the main speaker was?

#28 Drew

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:46 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Nov 22 2006, 01:17 PM, said:

Muslims are doing a better job of denouncing bin Laden and al Qaeda than Christians are doing of denouncing Falwell.

I sure hope I don't need to explain that Jerry Falwell doesn't fly airplanes into buildings. Your comparison is invalid.
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#29 Drew

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:49 PM

View PostBroph, on Nov 22 2006, 01:45 PM, said:

View PostDrew, on Nov 22 2006, 07:06 PM, said:

This has been in the news over here, and there is a little more to the story than what's given here. These six imams had just come from a convention where, according to reports, the main speaker engaged in such loud anti-U.S. rhetoric that he was disturbing other conventions at the same hotel. Also, there has been some question about the speaker's or organizer's past association with Osama bin Laden. So there were other, extenuating circumstances here that probably gave more cause to alarm authorities.

I'm sorry, but what's the likelihood that a bunch of random Western passengers would have even known what convention these imams were at or who the main speaker was?

I'm just stating that the authorities may have had knowledge and that could be one reason why they were removed from the plane after the complaints began . . . because they might have felt there was a more likely threat.

I dunno, but what I'm trying to say is that there is often more to a story than what the national news media relates, and in this case there was.
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#30 Palisades

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:52 PM

View PostDrew, on Nov 22 2006, 02:46 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Nov 22 2006, 01:17 PM, said:

Muslims are doing a better job of denouncing bin Laden and al Qaeda than Christians are doing of denouncing Falwell.

I sure hope I don't need to explain that Jerry Falwell doesn't fly airplanes into buildings. Your comparison is invalid.

No, he just ruins people's lives. In any case, Muslim religious leaders have denounced bin Laden and al Qaeda so my main point stands.
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#31 Lord Martock

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:55 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Nov 22 2006, 07:17 PM, said:

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Maybe, they should have thought about what the reaction would be......BEFORE they started praying.

Interesting that you blame the victims of discrimination rather than the people who allow prejudices and xenophobia to interfere with reason.

Blame..................at what point did I Blame them.  I was stating a SIMPLE but yet VERY EASY to understand concept called COMMON SENSE.

I get so sick of people crying....OH, YOU BASTARDS ARE DISCRIMINATING ME BECAUSE OF MY RACE OR RELIGION.  

Common sense would dictate....hey, I am an Arab Muslim in America and am praying to Allah in an Airport aboard a plane about to take off.......how are my actions going to be interpreted by others?  

Hummmmm, oh well.....Who Cares, I am Muslim and I don't care or respect others feelings.

They could have asked to go to a private room where they could have prayed in peace.
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#32 BklnScott

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:55 PM

View PostLost Cause, on Nov 22 2006, 12:24 PM, said:

According to a news cast I heard last night, their praying wasn't the only thing that got people's attention.  The six men split up into pairs and sat in unassigned seats through the plane.  Y'all know as well as I do seats on a plane (unless you're flying SW Airlines) aren't first-come-first-serve.

I hadn't heard that, but still think it's quite a leap from "they weren't sitting in assigned seats" to "suicide bomber."  

Quote

And as much as y'all say we shouldn't be afraid of Muslims, let's remember this:  What we're exhibiting as a people in this country (hypervigilence) is a by-product of terrorism.  The terror that Muslim extremists who flew four planes into buildings or the ground 5 years ago still resonates in this country.  It's way too freakin' early for us to get over it yet.  I can't imagine any sane person telling a shell-shock victim, "Get up!  Shellin's over!  You're alright!" and not noticing that the poor grunt can't move, think, or operate without ducking at every banging sound he hears.  That's what we're suffering from right now.  It's too early for the collective PTSD to have worn off.  The fact that it could happen anytime, anywhere, and you'd be in the mix, is what has people on edge.

I hear what you're saying, and I recognize that there's a lot of truth to it, but I also think that, if people who *lived* it can move on and reclaim normal lives (and they have), people who watched it on TV should also be able to do so.  You don't hear people who live in Tribeca ranting about "the terrorists."  It just doesn't happen.  

View PostSparkyCola, on Nov 22 2006, 01:47 PM, said:

I agree with Solar Wind on this one.

Sparky

Yes, that was a good call, SW.  Just the fact that they were drawing attention to themselves like that should've been a dead giveaway that they weren't intending to hijack the plane.  

A muslim in prayer in an airport does not = probable terrorist.

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#33 Palisades

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:05 PM

View PostLord Martock, on Nov 22 2006, 02:55 PM, said:

Blame..................at what point did I Blame them.

I'm not going to get into a debate over semantics.
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#34 Palisades

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:12 PM

View Postscherzo, on Nov 22 2006, 02:32 PM, said:

maybe we should consider shelving the PC bullsh*t, and stop pretending we don't know who the killers ALWAYS are.

Debunked in this thread.

Edited by Solar Wind, 22 November 2006 - 03:13 PM.

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#35 Kosh

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:20 PM

Paranoia over stuff like this is why we lost Habius Corpus, and why it's now legal to tortue people in the USA, and tap our Phones and search our houses without warrents.

As the old song goes, "Paranoia will destroy ya."
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#36 Lord Martock

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:34 PM

View PostSolar Wind, on Nov 22 2006, 08:05 PM, said:

View PostLord Martock, on Nov 22 2006, 02:55 PM, said:

Blame..................at what point did I Blame them.

I'm not going to get into a debate over semantics.


Why am I not surprised.  

This is the same kinda dancing around the problem which is causing misunderstandings in the first place.  
Guess I am done in this thread.
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#37 Palisades

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:45 PM

View PostLord Martock, on Nov 22 2006, 03:34 PM, said:

View PostSolar Wind, on Nov 22 2006, 08:05 PM, said:

View PostLord Martock, on Nov 22 2006, 02:55 PM, said:

Blame..................at what point did I Blame them.

I'm not going to get into a debate over semantics.


Why am I not surprised.  

This is the same kinda dancing around the problem which is causing misunderstandings in the first place.

You defended the arrest of the Muslim clerics by saying that the Muslims should have known better than to pray in public. I count that as blaming the Muslim clerics; you apparently do not. Perhaps I misread you, and you don't think it was reasonable to arrest the Muslim clerics?

Also, we don't agree on what the problem is. You think the problem is Muslims praying in public. I think the problem is with people who have a problem with Muslims praying in public.
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#38 Kosh

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 04:54 PM

The problem is "Fear".
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#39 Hibblette

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 05:20 PM

Again I think we have a situation were some people were trying to get attention.  But I think the Airline handled this pretty good.  These guys eventually got to their destination.

It's not the praying that is disturbing, it's the fact that they were seating themselves seperatly and in pairs.  Wasn't that something they discovered after 9/11?  I could be wrong but I seem to recall that they found that out in a plan of some sort.
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#40 Anastashia

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 05:29 PM

I have to side with the people who say that someone out to do something bad would be less likely to draw attention to themselves by praying. I think that they prayed in the open made them less suspicious.

Now what about the seating change? This just occured to me. They were traveling together so the airline assigned them to two rows of three instead of putting two people in a row of three leaving the middle seat free for passenger comfort as they would normally do with a couple or single travellers.

So the imans see there are rows unoccuppied, get up in pairs of two to share a row get themselves some more room, and change their seats.

Certainly makes for a more comfortable flight and a simple explanation for what happened.

What I can't understand is once some checking had been done why the airline would not rebook them.
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