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Hate Being Human... Why???

Culture Being Human

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#21 SparkyCola

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 06:20 PM

:( :(

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Digital Man}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cait}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so sorry, both of you. :(  

I feel that humanity has never been able to grasp, as a whole, the distinction between what really matters in life, what's really important, and what REALLY ISN'T, in the grand scheme of things. We've never got our priorities straight. I think that summarises my view.

People always say I'm too idealistic, maybe I am, but I've never had anything to prove to anyone except to God and myself, so it doesn't really matter. I prefer giving people the benefit of the doubt rather than jumping to the worst conclusion, because I would want people to do that for me, and people genuinely make mistakes all the time. And I'm talking about small things here, like road rage and that sort of thing. What's the point in assuming the worst? Being bitter over it won't solve anything.

I don't hate humanity, as I've said already. My ideals spring from the idea that the pain of losing someone is something that should be strongly avoided wherever possible.

Sparky

Edited by SparkyCola, 10 December 2006 - 06:23 PM.

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#22 Hibblette

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 06:40 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Dec 10 2006, 07:34 AM, said:

View PostHibblette, on Dec 9 2006, 11:55 PM, said:

We can strive beyond our instincts.  

I don't let the defective ones get to me in my strivance.  That's all a part of being human.

It's a noble sentiment. Unfortunately, there are others who share your POV, who's lives are disrupted by the "defective ones", therefore getting in the way of their strivance. That, too, is an unfortunate part of "being human."

But see I don't see it as unfortunate.

WE are all individuals.

I'm an individualist.

I also realise that we are animals...we just have this opportunity that other animals do not have.  But with opportunity comes failure.

Animals that live off of instincts do not fail or achieve or any of that-I guess that's great but then again being the individualist that I am I don't see that as great.

I am not of the sheep of the pasture.  I'm not necessarily a lion or wolf either.  I am me.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#23 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 06:44 PM

View PostHibblette, on Dec 10 2006, 06:40 PM, said:

But see I don't see it as unfortunate.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then.
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#24 SparkyCola

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 07:00 PM

Quote

WE are all individuals.

[monty python] *with crowd* YES! WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS! [/monty python]

Sorry..:look:

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#25 Cait

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 07:03 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Dec 10 2006, 02:26 PM, said:

:(

I rarely do this, but-

{{{{{{{{{Cait}}}}}}}}}

I'm terribly, terribly sorry.

:( :(

That's very kind of you.  It truly is.  I just wanted to share my own pivotal  moment.  It appeared to me, that we'd both viewed the worst in mankind to form our opinions.

And the truth is, both examples illustrate your point.  Mine is on a much smaller scale [albeit extremely personal I'll grant], but it is the same kind of detachment from humanity.  Both incidents were narcissist and devoid of any attachment to mankind at all.  Which I think, was your point.  I know it was mine.

I was listening to some music over the weekend, as I transferred a lot of it to my computer.  I'm an old folk music nut and have some Kingston Trio.  There is a song called "The Merry Minuet".  The lyrics were written back in either the late 50's or the early 60's, but not much has changed as far as our attitudes towards each other.  We supplant our humanity for nationalism and religious fervor.  

We aren't loyal to humanity in general,  we are dedicated to political entities and to those philosophies that allow us the most power over other humans.  It is displayed in the gangs on our streets in the United States, and in the terrorism we see visited upon humans in all corners of the world.  People will kill randomly and without regret in order to further their own philosophies and therefore their own sense of power.  It really is that simple to my view.

If you ever get a chance, listen to it, it's quite funny in a sad kind of way.  Here's the lyrics.

They're Rioting in Africa (The Merry Minuet)
(Sheldon Harnick)

Intro:
     There are days in my life when everything is dreary
     I grow pessimistic, sad and world weary.
     But when I'm tearful and fearfully upset
     I always sing this merry little minuet:

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain.

The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans,
The Germans hate the Poles

Italians hate Yugoslavs
South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like anybody very much

But we can be grateful
And thankful and proud
That man's been endowed
With a mushroom shaped cloud

And we know for certain
That some happy day
Someone will set the spark off
And we will all be blown away

They're rioting in Africa
There's strife in Iran
What nature doesn't do to us
Will be done by our fellow man.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#26 Hibblette

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 08:08 PM

And yes we are a crowd of individuals, that's what makes it fun.

That's what makes forums such as this a real kick.
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#27 Mark

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:08 PM

View PostHibblette, on Dec 10 2006, 07:08 PM, said:

And yes we are a crowd of individuals, that's what makes it fun.

That's what makes forums such as this a real kick.

Mark: (kicks Hibblette)  :p
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#28 Godeskian

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:09 PM

Wouldn't this planet be dull if we were all alike.

I do firmly believe that the vast majority of people are followers, not leaders. Therefore there tends to be a certain homoginaity of ideas, but for all that they are still individuals.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#29 Hibblette

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:25 PM

And of course there's a reason for that-too many chiefs in the kitchen... wait ... that's too many chefs around the campfire...

:p

I feel that all of us have the potential to aspire beyond the herd or den mentality but the whole thing is that you have to work towards that...it is not handed to you.  And you can do this without being a leader.  

What was it Lillian Helman wrote in Little Foxes about the eaters of earth or something like that.

In fact Ms Helman loved taking this subject on.   :rolleyes:
"There are many ways of going forward, but there is only one way of standing still."  FDR explaining why Liberals are so often divided and Conservatives are so often united.

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."  Will Rogers

#30 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:42 PM

View PostHibblette, on Dec 10 2006, 08:08 PM, said:

And yes we are a crowd of individuals, that's what makes it fun.

That's what makes forums such as this a real kick.

Fun? Not always.

:eh:
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#31 Mark

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:46 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Dec 10 2006, 09:42 PM, said:

View PostHibblette, on Dec 10 2006, 08:08 PM, said:

And yes we are a crowd of individuals, that's what makes it fun.

That's what makes forums such as this a real kick.

Fun? Not always.

:eh:

Mark:  :rolleyes:  Yeah, not always. (kicks DM)  :p
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Peace is not the absence of conflict, but the ability to cope with it.
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#32 Vapor Trails

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 11:11 PM

In reading over this thread again, I wanted to touch upon this bit by Cait:

View PostCait, on Dec 10 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

True peace and harmony with our fellowman is rare, not the norm.  I have grave doubts that it will *ever* be the norm.

I'll take it a step further: I am certain it will never be the norm.

Humans have a violent history. It has been repeated every single day since homo sapiens came into being.

This is the norm. Trying to put pretty trappings of "civilized" behavior-whatever the hell that is-doesn't change this fact.

Yes, you do have humans who, despite these natural tendencies of violence, selfishness and arrogance, try to work past these instincts. But to quote a line in Star Wars by-of all things-a puppet called Yoda-

"Do! Or do not. There is no try."

I'll say it again-It simply IS NOT ENOUGH for groups of humans here and there to make efforts to get along and work towards common goals that will benefit anyone. It has to be a UNIFORM EFFORT. And that will NEVER, EVER happen. For folks to think that will happen someday is the height of stupidity to me. You have to stick your hand in the fire only once to know that it burns. But some folks are slow learners, and no matter if they get 2nd or 3rd degree burns, they'll keep sticking their hands in-hoping they won't get burned.  :sarcasm: And soon, they won't have a hand left.

I know what I said was blunt-maybe even offensive. But I'm not changing a single word. Make of those statements what you will.

Saul
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#33 omegaman

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 11:28 PM

I read somewhere that God will establish authoritarian rule over, and judge humanity only after it becomes absolutely, finally, and totally clear that man is unable to manage his own affairs.  

Since I'm not God I will withhold my judgement of humanity.  Being a human makes my ability to judge us more than a little myopic.
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#34 D.Rabbit

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 11:52 PM

I've not always been overly keen on humanity myself.
Daddy murdered mommy, his mistress murdered him etc.
I like my being tucked away from the homeless and the junkies in the cities. There is still no escaping all of the ills we inflict on each other, at least not while we are able to take a breath.

I once was very much of the opinion that man kind was despicable, until the World Bank decided that they needed a way to boost the sagging world economy and start to educate the third world.
Yes they did it in the name of money, but that is what motivates us.

Little by little, we are evolving for the better. Digi ideology of making human rights etc across the board is the ultimate we can achieve in a socialistic way.  It can happen but it's not going to happen over night.

I think the internet is going to prove to be our savior, for it is an information highway, it brings education to all those who can access it, and it is quite accessible in many remote areas of the world.

Fear is a major factor in our animosities, but fear can be alleviated by education. The more education, the less we fear, the less fear the more me understand, the more understand, the more tolerant we will be.

Human beings are hard wired for violence, but once we know this to be a fact then we can understand how to deal with it.

In the political area Socialism has been accepted as the best of processes. That is why Canada and Norway are in the top 10 countries classed as the best countries to live in.

Capitalism,  gives people the right to step on whom ever they want to get what ever they want while socialism give you the right to go out and get what you want, but you have to pay the price in high taxes. This makes sure that those who don't have your facilities, don't suffer unduly because they do not.

It's interesting that Our Prime Minister was invited to China. When he made it known that he was going to speak to their head of state about human rights, he was uninvited. But he went anyways. At least he gave it a shot. That is the direction we as a race are going in, the direction that we are starting to find our center of caring and I for one am pleased that there are those who do make the effort, organizations and individuals such as Greenpeace, David Suzuki, Jane Goodall, Steven Lewis etc.

The next generation is very much concerned with the planet as a whole.
I am very proud of the direction we appear to be heading.
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#35 Vapor Trails

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 12:15 AM

D.Rabbit writes:

Quote

Digi ideology of making human rights etc across the board is the ultimate we can achieve in a socialistic way. It can happen but it's not going to happen over night.

I'm sorry-but I couldn't disagree more strongly with this. How long has man been around? How often have the same patterns of violence, arrogance, and other forms of abuse been around? I'm sorry-but what you're saying sounds too idealistic to me. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Quote

I think the internet is going to prove to be our savior, for it is an information highway, it brings education to all those who can access it, and it is quite accessible in many remote areas of the world.

Again-that seems too idealistic. Also-who is doing the educating? What are people being educated about? In many places, knowledge is severely curtailed by those in power. These folks know that knowledge can be a weapon that can be turned against them. There are countries that go to great lengths to censor the Internet.

Quote

Fear is a major factor in our animosities, but fear can be alleviated by education.

Don't assume that "education" will be tolerated everwhere. Again-there are tyrants who know how dangerous knowledge can be-and therefore, the people under them will only learn the things the leaders deem proper.

Quote

The more education, the less we fear, the less fear the more me understand, the more understand, the more tolerant we will be.

And do you really believe education is just going to be given free reign? To think that will be the case is incredibly naive.

Quote

Human beings are hard wired for violence, but once we know this to be a fact then we can understand how to deal with it.

And do you think everyone wants peace? I think for more than a few folks, being hard-wired for violence is a benefit.
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#36 SparkyCola

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 01:49 PM

Yeah, cos education solves all of the UK's problems, and all of Europe's problems and all of USA's problems. Knowledge is not understanding, and intelligence is not wisdom. We have been educated- and the advancements we make are because of wars and the military, not because we realise there are still homeless people being ignored, sex trafficking, murder, rape, torture, etc. that needs to be fixed- OH no, it's because of wars and the military.

I think one can look for the one thing that will solve all our problems forever but it can't be found - because humans just aren't hardwired like that.

To cut a long story short- I agree with DM.

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#37 Drew

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 01:58 PM

View PostDigital Man, on Dec 9 2006, 10:48 PM, said:

View PostDrew, on Dec 9 2006, 11:15 PM, said:

Briefly: Once upon a time, "progress" was not a dirty word. What happened?

Define what you mean by "progress".

Improving ourselves, our surroundings . . . making life better for everyone. Once upon a time it was felt that our technological advances could improve our lives toward some sort of Roddenberrian ideal. I mean, just take a look at the unabashed optimism in the old "Wheel of Progress" ride at DisneyPlanet.

Of course, a lot of this was pie-in-the-sky idealism that ignored humanity's more selfish impulses. But maybe the trick is to assume the best of everyone, lift everyone up toward this ideal rather than assume the best anyone can achieve is the lowest common denominator.

It's Harrison Bergeron. We hold back progress. We hamstring innovation (except, curiously, innovations in the realm of entertainment). Kids these days no longer believe the statement that "You can be anything that you want to be."

Imagine what could be achieved if we actually believed that?
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#38 SparkyCola

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 02:59 PM

^Agreed. Good post.

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#39 Kosh

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 03:21 PM

Man is a virus. We go into an area, abuse it, stip the resources, wheather we need them or not (Buffalo) , use it all up and then wonder why the air is dirty and the rivers are full of crap. By the time we are done, this wont be a livable world.
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#40 Drew

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 03:43 PM

Of course, you can have progress without having pollution. But there is a mindset at work that believes all progress is necessarily anti-environment. This is patently untrue.

There's a neo-romantic philosophy at work in our educational system that seems aimed at turning us all back into nomadic hunter-gatherers. It is, in fact, anti-civilization (and as such, anti-human).

To be brief: don't buy into the anti-human nonsense. Yes, we may have the tendency towards base acts of selfishness, but we are also capable of grand acts of kindness and charity. Lift up the latter, disavow the former. Do not see the devil in the eyes of your neighbor . . . see the angel waiting to be born. Stick to the golden rule. Treat others as you wish to be treated. You may not be able to transform the whole world yourself, but you can work to transform those around you.

That's all pretty high-falutin' hippie-talk I suppose. So to put it another way, don't be part of the problem; be part of the solution.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."



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